approx. CLS GPA for different firms

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Anonymous User
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approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:54 am

I am wondering about the approximate average CLS GPA of people who get offers at these firms in NYC. I am a white female with one year of pretty lame work experience. I know it's hard to answer this question, but even ballpark is helpful at this point.

Davis Polk
Cahill
Milbank
Winston & Strawn
K&L Gates
Bryan Cave
Simpson Thacher
Paul Weiss
Quinn Emanuel
Hughes Hubbard

Anonymous User
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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:06 am

DPW will probably require mid-stone (3.5 or so seemed to do it). If you can get a callback with them, though, you will generally get an offer. STB and P+W will probably also require Stone. After that it's more about fit.

I can't see any of the other firms having a hard cutoff at Stone. Quinn might. I know Winston called back below median (3.2) people. Milbank, Cahill, H+H are good bets. you may want to watch it with Bryan Cave (which I hear is not doing so well) and K+L Gates (small NYC office makes it less likely that they will callback people with median grades because they just have less callbacks to go around.

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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:13 am

When you say "good bet", does that mean a person at median is in good shape?

It's looking like I'm going to end up with a straight-up B+ average.

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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:20 am

All the firms you listed called back median people except for DPW.

imchuckbass58
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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby imchuckbass58 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:I am wondering about the approximate average CLS GPA of people who get offers at these firms in NYC. I am a white female with one year of pretty lame work experience. I know it's hard to answer this question, but even ballpark is helpful at this point.

Davis Polk
Cahill
Milbank
Winston & Strawn
K&L Gates
Bryan Cave
Simpson Thacher
Paul Weiss
Quinn Emanuel
Hughes Hubbard


Anecdotally, the median of people who got DPW/Paul Weiss offers was in the 3.5-3.6 range, with some lower and some higher. You're probably in the running above the stone cutoff. Two years ago, DPW only gave 1 offer to a non-stone scholar.

Simpson Thacher and Quinn are also grade selective, but probably slightly less - if I had to guess, offers in the 3.4-3.5 range, with at least median to be in the running.

No idea on the others, but they all tend to be less selective (i.e., most offers probably going to medianish people or slightly above, and it's possible to get an offer if you're slightly below).

Also contrary to what the above poster said, DPW is not a guaranteed callback-->offer. In fact, quite the opposite. DPW gave 109 callbacks and only made 29 offers. Most V10s and V20s actually have higher rations - offering half or more of their callbacks (STB, Weil, Debevoise, Cleary, Cravath, etc). S&C offered all but one of their callbacks.

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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby imchuckbass58 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:27 am

Also, Quinn has a hard cutoff, though I do not know what it is. There was an episode at EIP last year when one of the partners basically ended an interview immediately after seeing a transcript (career services was pretty pissed).

timbs4339
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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby timbs4339 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:27 am

Anonymous User wrote:When you say "good bet", does that mean a person at median is in good shape?

It's looking like I'm going to end up with a straight-up B+ average.


It's true all those firms called back people below Stone. But whether you would waste a valuable bid on them for that chance (especially with 1 year of WE) is another story. I would not spend a bid on P+W or STB. Maybe at the bottom of your bidlist because those firms are generally underbid. But your top bids should be going to the firms, Milbank, Cahill, H+H, that I mentioned.

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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby timbs4339 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:27 am

imchuckbass58 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am wondering about the approximate average CLS GPA of people who get offers at these firms in NYC. I am a white female with one year of pretty lame work experience. I know it's hard to answer this question, but even ballpark is helpful at this point.

Davis Polk
Cahill
Milbank
Winston & Strawn
K&L Gates
Bryan Cave
Simpson Thacher
Paul Weiss
Quinn Emanuel
Hughes Hubbard


Anecdotally, the median of people who got DPW/Paul Weiss offers was in the 3.5-3.6 range, with some lower and some higher. You're probably in the running above the stone cutoff. Two years ago, DPW only gave 1 offer to a non-stone scholar.

Simpson Thacher and Quinn are also grade selective, but probably slightly less - if I had to guess, offers in the 3.4-3.5 range, with at least median to be in the running.

No idea on the others, but they all tend to be less selective (i.e., most offers probably going to medianish people or slightly above, and it's possible to get an offer if you're slightly below).

Also contrary to what the above poster said, DPW is not a guaranteed callback-->offer. In fact, quite the opposite. DPW gave 109 callbacks and only made 29 offers. Most V10s and V20s actually have higher rations - offering half or more of their callbacks (STB, Weil, Debevoise, Cleary, Cravath, etc). S&C offered all but one of their callbacks.


Yes, S+C was the auto-offer firm. My mistake.

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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby timbs4339 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:31 am

imchuckbass58 wrote:Also, Quinn has a hard cutoff, though I do not know what it is. There was an episode at EIP last year when one of the partners basically ended an interview immediately after seeing a transcript (career services was pretty pissed).


Wow. Stay classy Quinn.

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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:45 am

timbs4339 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:When you say "good bet", does that mean a person at median is in good shape?

It's looking like I'm going to end up with a straight-up B+ average.


It's true all those firms called back people below Stone. But whether you would waste a valuable bid on them for that chance (especially with 1 year of WE) is another story. I would not spend a bid on P+W or STB. Maybe at the bottom of your bidlist because those firms are generally underbid. But your top bids should be going to the firms, Milbank, Cahill, H+H, that I mentioned.


Milbank and Cahill had high interview:bid ratios (like most people who bid got interviews). Should that affect how high I bid on them?

Oh, and what about Jones Day in terms of offers to median people?

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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:47 am

Another CLS rising 2L here... I'm definitely going to make the Stone cutoff but my grades this term will likely be a bit lower than last term (I'm waiting on one grade). Should I bid lower than the Stone distinction would indicate because of a slightly decreasing GPA?

timbs4339
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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby timbs4339 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:Another CLS rising 2L here... I'm definitely going to make the Stone cutoff but my grades this term will likely be a bit lower than last term (I'm waiting on one grade). Should I bid lower than the Stone distinction would indicate because of a slightly decreasing GPA?


No, not at all. Include a few safeties though.

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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:08 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Another CLS rising 2L here... I'm definitely going to make the Stone cutoff but my grades this term will likely be a bit lower than last term (I'm waiting on one grade). Should I bid lower than the Stone distinction would indicate because of a slightly decreasing GPA?


No, not at all. Include a few safeties though.



Thanks! Any thoughts on chances at Davis Polk or Quinn Emanuel if I end up with around a 3.5? Strong summer 1L job, straight from undergrad but very strong internship experience in undergrad (helped me get the 1L summer job).

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swc65
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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby swc65 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:18 pm

Thanks for starting this thread. If I ever get my last two grades, I will be in serious need of bid advice.

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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby thesealocust » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Another CLS rising 2L here... I'm definitely going to make the Stone cutoff but my grades this term will likely be a bit lower than last term (I'm waiting on one grade). Should I bid lower than the Stone distinction would indicate because of a slightly decreasing GPA?


No, not at all. Include a few safeties though.



Thanks! Any thoughts on chances at Davis Polk or Quinn Emanuel if I end up with around a 3.5? Strong summer 1L job, straight from undergrad but very strong internship experience in undergrad (helped me get the 1L summer job).


Once you're in the GPA ballpark, it's very difficult to give people 'chances' at particular firms. It really depends on how you click with the interview more than a random intangible on your resume. There are a few minor exceptions (Cleary seems to legitimately care a lot about international experience, as a random example) but for the most part your chances with a ~3.5 are going to be fine but not stellar. Do a lot of research, brush up on interviews, make sure you're enthusiastic and hope for the best. Can't handicap it much beyond that.

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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:29 pm

OP here (B+ average). I want to err on the side of conservative bidding because I am not a strong interviewer (will be working on that this summer), so there is really no reason to think I will outperform my GPA (will probably underperform it, unfortunately).

However, some people have implied that bidding too conservatively is a mistake. Is there really any upside for me bidding on V10 or V20?

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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby thesealocust » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here (B+ average). I want to err on the side of conservative bidding because I am not a strong interviewer (will be working on that this summer), so there is really no reason to think I will outperform my GPA (will probably underperform it, unfortunately).

However, some people have implied that bidding too conservatively is a mistake. Is there really any upside for me bidding on V10 or V20?


Yes. V10 and V20 firms have (a) fewer people bidding on them and (b) larger classes sizes [speaking in broad generalizations]. There's a huge amount of upside, especially considering how many people will be clustering for the 'less selective' firms.

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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby timbs4339 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:38 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here (B+ average). I want to err on the side of conservative bidding because I am not a strong interviewer (will be working on that this summer), so there is really no reason to think I will outperform my GPA (will probably underperform it, unfortunately).

However, some people have implied that bidding too conservatively is a mistake. Is there really any upside for me bidding on V10 or V20?


Yes. V10 and V20 firms have (a) fewer people bidding on them and (b) larger classes sizes [speaking in broad generalizations]. There's a huge amount of upside, especially considering how many people will be clustering for the 'less selective' firms.


The V20 is definitely in play. Ropes, Latham, White and Case, Jones Day. I wouldn't bid on the V5. But firms like Paul Weiss, Debevoise, Kirkland are your reaches.

And smaller firms back in the V100 are arguably more selective than the V20. There are simply less seats to go around, and they can afford to take only a few people back for callbacks.

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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:51 pm

Where can I get info on the size of summer classes?

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thesealocust
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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby thesealocust » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Where can I get info on the size of summer classes?


http://www.nalpdirectory.com/

Know it. Love it.

timbs4339
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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby timbs4339 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Where can I get info on the size of summer classes?



Chambers Associates (the book OCS gives you), has a table in the back. The book is pretty much an industry puff piece, but it has good numbers.

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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby viking138 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:01 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Where can I get info on the size of summer classes?



Chambers Associates (the book OCS gives you), has a table in the back. The book is pretty much an industry puff piece, but it has good numbers.



Yeahhhh they didn't give it to us this year. Go OCS...

timbs4339
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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby timbs4339 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:06 pm

viking138 wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Where can I get info on the size of summer classes?



Chambers Associates (the book OCS gives you), has a table in the back. The book is pretty much an industry puff piece, but it has good numbers.



Yeahhhh they didn't give it to us this year. Go OCS...



Did they at least make the Stone/non-Stone binder available?

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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby viking138 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:11 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
viking138 wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Where can I get info on the size of summer classes?



Chambers Associates (the book OCS gives you), has a table in the back. The book is pretty much an industry puff piece, but it has good numbers.



Yeahhhh they didn't give it to us this year. Go OCS...



Did they at least make the Stone/non-Stone binder available?


It's available in the CSO office but we didn't get copies of it or anything.

Anonymous User
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Re: approx. CLS GPA for different firms

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:42 pm

timbs4339 wrote:Did they at least make the Stone/non-Stone binder available?


I wish I had that because it would've helped a lot with my original question.




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