Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

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seatown12
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby seatown12 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:25 pm

boaltrising3l wrote:Having now known many graduating 3Ls, if you do not get an SA, you likely graduate unemployed. The few I know with jobs got lucky with feds, or are working at PD or prosecutors office as a clerk for min wage + no health insurance. With tuition at what it is, IBR is really the only option, and obviously that's a hard truth to face, but one I choose to acknowledge rather than ignore.

The "min wage + no health insurance" positions with PDS are temporary pending bar results, at which point the person is hired as a full time attorney with salary and benefits. This is somewhat unique to CA offices, and presenting it in this way is extremely misleading.

boaltrising3l wrote: Re: 2Ls without jobs. Of the few I know, they def have a cover story for people they don't know that well. They obviously only let their closest friends know of the situation.
Last, in general 1Ls are really clueless about how the job market is. This is because 2Ls with SAs are very vocal about the sweet SA job they landed. Us other 2Ls are less vocal because we don't want to let 1Ls know how dire it really is.

This is not how real people think. 2Ls don't hide their employment situations to keep 1Ls from knowing the truth. It's true that people without jobs are less likely to want to talk about it, but not for that reason. I can't believe that Boalt 2Ls come up with fake employment "cover stories" to tell those outside their inner circle.

This post makes this guy sound really flame-like, but I think he is actually just an outlier with an extreme "law school neurotic" personality. I don't think his situation is representative, nor do I think his portrayal of Boalt employment outcomes/prospects is credible.

boaltrising3l
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby boaltrising3l » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:43 pm

I know people who have blatantly lied about their summer employment. Also, I know for a fact all local PDs are on hiring freezes meaning 10 bucks an hour plus no health insurance AFTER the bar exam. The hope is one day they can open up full time positions you describe but with the budget I doubt it's coming soon. Getting a full time PD position from law school (not the b.s. temporary law clerk one i described), is much HARDER than getting a job at a vault 10 firm.

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gwuorbust
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby gwuorbust » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:32 pm

PD is harder to get than V10?

--ImageRemoved--

boaltrising3l
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby boaltrising3l » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:00 pm

I know at least 5 close friends working at v10s anyone working at a pd only has a chance for temp clerk work. V10s are hiring pds are not there is a statewide hiring freeze in effect so getting a full time pd job is unheard of.

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gwuorbust
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby gwuorbust » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:10 pm

@boaltrising3l. I guess if you are only considering CA then PD probably is harder to get then V10. However, that is terrible, terrible way to look at it. I know PD here in NOLA just hired a bunch of 3Ls. I'm sure that other PDs across the country are hiring. A Boalt degree is valuable. You are not just limited to CA..though that doesn't mean you won't have to hustle.

seatown12
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby seatown12 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:02 am

I worked in a CA PD office last summer so I know how their hiring works, and I also know that at least two offices made hires in the past year. However, only senior clerks are considered for full-time positions, so if you mean that a random person does not have a chance to be hired directly into a attorney position with a CA PD you are correct.

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worldtraveler
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby worldtraveler » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:44 am

boaltrising3l wrote:
Shaggier1 wrote:
Yeah, it's mainly litigation in California. The only non-IP people I know at my T-14 who landed California biglaw were top 15-20%.


Lol. Comeon folks...

I just finished 1L at Boalt. I know multiple people in the class above me that are working in CA this summer. They are not IP, not top 20% and they are all at V50's throughout SF, SV, and LA.

No offense to OP, but I suspect that bad interviewing combined with poor bidding strategy here.


Sorry to burst your bubble but I dont think it was bad interviewing. I got a gov job this summer where I didn't meet many of the qualifications because of my interview skills.

The only 2Ls I know at V50s with that grade profile are URMs, but i guess its true that some non top 20% non IP got biglaw (with a total about 30% biglaw according to CDO guess).

Re: 2Ls without jobs. Of the few I know, they def have a cover story for people they don't know that well. They obviously only let their closest friends know of the situation.

Last, in general 1Ls are really clueless about how the job market is. This is because 2Ls with SAs are very vocal about the sweet SA job they landed. Us other 2Ls are less vocal because we don't want to let 1Ls know how dire it really is. Having now known many graduating 3Ls, if you do not get an SA, you likely graduate unemployed. The few I know with jobs got lucky with feds, or are working at PD or prosecutors office as a clerk for min wage + no health insurance. With tuition at what it is, IBR is really the only option, and obviously that's a hard truth to face, but one I choose to acknowledge rather than ignore.


That's a really convenient way for no one to be able to discredit you.

As for the rest of the panic about Boalt's bad placement, I don't know that the real number is. Maybe it really is 30%. However, a huge chunk of our class either didn't do OCI (maybe about 30 people), did it only for government jobs or PI stuff, did it for only a couple firms, or did it but really had their hearts set on something else. There are a ton of people who wanted big law and a ton of people who don't, and I think the number who don't is definitely larger than it is at other schools.

I don't think there is a reason for 0Ls to panic, but the job market is tough. It's tough for everybody even at top 10 schools.

boaltrising3l
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby boaltrising3l » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:10 pm

Just to update everyone, got great news today, an offer for my old finance job starting at 65k. Plan on withdrawing soon. This is far more than I could expect as a Boalt grad, and while I really wanted to become a lawyer, I have other people I had to think about that need my support.

Anyways, still willing to answer any questions about Boalt, fun experience, but probably not the greatest financial investment.

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gwuorbust
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby gwuorbust » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:36 pm

boaltrising3l wrote:Just to update everyone, got great news today, an offer for my old finance job starting at 65k. Plan on withdrawing soon. This is far more than I could expect as a Boalt grad, and while I really wanted to become a lawyer, I have other people I had to think about that need my support.

Anyways, still willing to answer any questions about Boalt, fun experience, but probably not the greatest financial investment.


can you go part time and finish you degree in like two years?

I imagine you could negotiate with the dean cause they don't want their stats to take a hit. and lets be honest, how hard it is to pass law school classes with minimal effort? very easy if you don't mind Bs. but in your situation, I do not think that matters much. I just think withdrawing when you are this close to being done is a terrible mistake. but to each his own.

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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby shoeshine » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:03 pm

boaltrising3l wrote:Just to update everyone, got great news today, an offer for my old finance job starting at 65k. Plan on withdrawing soon. This is far more than I could expect as a Boalt grad, and while I really wanted to become a lawyer, I have other people I had to think about that need my support.

Anyways, still willing to answer any questions about Boalt, fun experience, but probably not the greatest financial investment.


You are literally retarded. The one industry that is less stable than law is finance. You are going to go back to a job at 65k with 100k+ in debt? And you will have no degree and little chance of making more money in the future.

I call huge flame. Nothing you have said makes sense.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby Stringer Bell » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:10 pm

shoeshine wrote:You are literally retarded. The one industry that is less stable than law is finance. You are going to go back to a job at 65k with 100k+ in debt? And you will have no degree and little chance of making more money in the future.

I call huge flame. Nothing you have said makes sense.


I don't understand your post. 65k a year with 120k in debt > being unemployed with 180k in debt. That should be pretty self evident.

shoeshine
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby shoeshine » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:15 pm

Why would he be unemployed? He could still go get his finance job or a job in law. The point is that if he finished he would have a JD he could use in the future and probably have much higher earnings in the long run. Now he is just a grad school drop out who wasted two years getting 100k of debt with literally nothing to show for it.

I wish everyone on this forum would stop thinking in the short term. The next two years does not equal the rest of your life in terms of job placement.

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Kilpatrick
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby Kilpatrick » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:21 pm

Can't wait til I graduate so I can just go get a job in law

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby Stringer Bell » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:28 pm

shoeshine wrote:Why would he be unemployed? He could still go get his finance job or a job in law.


The ability to accomplish the bolded is the source of contention. For them the finance job might not still be on the table, and even if it is they'd be sacrificing a year of earnings and piling up another 60-70k in debt. This could mean many more years of paying back loans. If it was me in this exact situation, I think I would stick it out. But I can understand the thought process.

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bk1
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby bk1 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:32 pm

shoeshine wrote:Why would he be unemployed? He could still go get his finance job or a job in law. The point is that if he finished he would have a JD he could use in the future and probably have much higher earnings in the long run. Now he is just a grad school drop out who wasted two years getting 100k of debt with literally nothing to show for it.

I wish everyone on this forum would stop thinking in the short term. The next two years does not equal the rest of your life in terms of job placement.


About 10 years from now he's going to be debt free. Were he to go for another year, yes he would have a JD but he would probably be indebted for a lot longer.

It really isn't as clear cut as you're trying to make it seem.

Black-Blue
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby Black-Blue » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:09 pm

boaltrising3l wrote:Just to update everyone, got great news today, an offer for my old finance job starting at 65k. Plan on withdrawing soon. This is far more than I could expect as a Boalt grad, and while I really wanted to become a lawyer, I have other people I had to think about that need my support.

Anyways, still willing to answer any questions about Boalt, fun experience, but probably not the greatest financial investment.

Congrats.

I suggest that instead of dropping out, transfer to a TTT close to your job (or become a visiting student there) and finish LS part time. Since you've already finished your 2 years at Boalt, you will still get your diploma from there even if you spend your last year at a TTT. Alternatively, you can come back to boalt after a few years off.

You don't have to cleanly drop out.

09042014
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:19 pm

When you are a visiting student who do you pay tuition to?

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canon
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby canon » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:49 pm

How do you know your class rank if Boalt doesn't disclose rank except for those applying to clerkships?

09042014
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:01 pm

canon wrote:How do you know your class rank if Boalt doesn't disclose rank except for those applying to clerkships?


Educated guessing. Straight P's has got to be about bottom third.

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thesealocust
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby thesealocust » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:30 pm

shoeshine wrote:Why would he be unemployed? He could still go get his finance job or a job in law. The point is that if he finished he would have a JD he could use in the future and probably have much higher earnings in the long run. Now he is just a grad school drop out who wasted two years getting 100k of debt with literally nothing to show for it.

I wish everyone on this forum would stop thinking in the short term. The next two years does not equal the rest of your life in terms of job placement.


You sound like somebody who hasn't been to law school and tried to get a job.

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canon
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby canon » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:37 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
canon wrote:How do you know your class rank if Boalt doesn't disclose rank except for those applying to clerkships?


Educated guessing. Straight P's has got to be about bottom third.


Even though Top 25% at Boalt can sometimes strike out at OCI, I find it really hard to believe this anecdote wasn't just a botched instance due to poor bidding (as OP stated) and/or interview skills, especially when you hear of people with straight Ps getting biglaw. Hell, I even met a 1L at ASW who is SAing. So what gives?

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Zugzwang
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby Zugzwang » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:40 pm

canon wrote:Even though Top 25% at Boalt can sometimes strike out at OCI, I find it really hard to believe this anecdote wasn't just a botched instance due to poor bidding (as OP stated) and/or interview skills, especially when you hear of people with straight Ps getting biglaw. Hell, I even met a 1L at ASW who is SAing. So what gives?

Why is it so hard to believe?

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canon
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby canon » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:45 pm

Zugzwang wrote:Why is it so hard to believe?


canon wrote:Even though Top 25% at Boalt can sometimes strike out at OCI, I find it really hard to believe this anecdote wasn't just a botched instance due to poor bidding (as OP stated) and/or interview skills, especially when you hear of people with straight Ps getting biglaw. Hell, I even met a 1L at ASW who is SAing. So what gives?


If people with straight Ps can get biglaw then chances are you did something really wrong at OCI if you are top 25% at Boalt. Just my take.

09042014
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:45 pm

canon wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
canon wrote:How do you know your class rank if Boalt doesn't disclose rank except for those applying to clerkships?


Educated guessing. Straight P's has got to be about bottom third.


Even though Top 25% at Boalt can sometimes strike out at OCI, I find it really hard to believe this anecdote wasn't just a botched instance due to poor bidding (as OP stated) and/or interview skills, especially when you hear of people with straight Ps getting biglaw. Hell, I even met a 1L at ASW who is SAing. So what gives?


1) 1L SAing is mainly decided based on factors other than grades. Usually diversity reasons, or because of a special career background. Many of them are given out before grades are given. It's really here nor there.

2) Even at OCI, things other than grades matter.

3) If things are as bad as OP claims they are at boalt, then it's very probable it wasn't just really terrible bidding.

4) Even if they aren't as bad as OP claims, people strike out. It's part luck, part interviewing skills, part bidding. It isn't like law schools, were if you are competitive at Berkley you'll definitely get in at UCLA. There isn't a auto-admit to firms.

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stratocophic
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby stratocophic » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:46 pm

Zugzwang wrote:
canon wrote:Even though Top 25% at Boalt can sometimes strike out at OCI, I find it really hard to believe this anecdote wasn't just a botched instance due to poor bidding (as OP stated) and/or interview skills, especially when you hear of people with straight Ps getting biglaw. Hell, I even met a 1L at ASW who is SAing. So what gives?

Why is it so hard to believe?
For the same reason that 90-95% of 0Ls believe they'll be in the top 10% of their class.




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