Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

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2LLLL
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby 2LLLL » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:31 am

Over a long enough time run (10+ years) the earnings added by having a JD significantly outweigh the debt you will earn your last year.



Given that OP has missed the BigLaw boat, I don't think you can just assume that a JD will add to his earning potential. Non-BigLaw/MidLaw employers typically pay in the $40-60k range, and OP has already said he can get another professional job that probably pays about the same.

seatown12
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby seatown12 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:09 am

boaltrising3l wrote:I don't want to do public interest because:

A. No public interest firm will pay for full time employees so you have to continually apply for grants, for recent grads there is virtually no chance of getting a full time public interest job.
B. I've worked in a public interest organization and quite frankly the environment is toxic. Things are run on such a shoestring and rather than taking on a reasonable load, at least my organization had far too many clients to the point where we really couldn't effectively serve anyone.
C. The level of work is incredibly low level stuff often just navigating people through administrative procedures which frankly I do not find interesting.
D. For every one sympathetic client there are ten ungrateful ones that treat you terribly and dump on you for how awful their life is. Most have no legal claim and/or standing and are just looking to vent to another human being.

The bolded are all wild generalizations. I don't know what "public interest" means to you but you are rejecting a wide range of possibilities based on limited and probably unrepresentative experience. "Public interest" is too ambiguous a category for someone in need of a job to just write off completely.

That said the word I chose was too strong and I apologize.

seatown12
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby seatown12 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:30 am

2LLLL wrote:Non-BigLaw/MidLaw employers typically pay in the $40-60k range, and OP has already said he can get another professional job that probably pays about the same.

He didn't say what his old job was so I'm not sure we can assume that. Many law jobs that start in the $40-60k range have opportunity for relatively rapid advancement. I would have to have pretty insanely good non-legal employment options to choose ~$100k debt and nothing to show for it over $150k and a JD from a t10 with top 25% GPA.

In my opinion OP should go hard after state clerkships, for which he is likely very competitive. Maybe after a few years experience he can open his own shop. He definitely has options that will pay more than the $15/hr he claims to be looking for, and will make the JD worth the extra $50k.

boaltrising3l
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby boaltrising3l » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:48 pm

I'd love a state clerkship, but just want to know if I'm really too low to be competitive for district?

cornellbeez
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby cornellbeez » Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:14 pm

boaltrising3l wrote:I'd love a state clerkship, but just want to know if I'm really too low to be competitive for district?


Probably, yes. I mean, you can always apply, but odds are against you for district.

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Shaggier1
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby Shaggier1 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:54 am

Yeah, it's mainly litigation in California. The only non-IP people I know at my T-14 who landed California biglaw were top 15-20%.


Lol. Comeon folks...

I just finished 1L at Boalt. I know multiple people in the class above me that are working in CA this summer. They are not IP, not top 20% and they are all at V50's throughout SF, SV, and LA.

No offense to OP, but I suspect that bad interviewing combined with poor bidding strategy here.

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worldtraveler
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby worldtraveler » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:00 am

I'm also a rising 3L at Berkeley. I have no idea who the OP is, but I've never heard that there are people in our class sitting around without jobs this summer. Some people didn't get a firm job or didn't get what they wanted but I don't know anyone without ANYTHING this summer.

boaltrising3l
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby boaltrising3l » Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:05 pm

Shaggier1 wrote:
Yeah, it's mainly litigation in California. The only non-IP people I know at my T-14 who landed California biglaw were top 15-20%.


Lol. Comeon folks...

I just finished 1L at Boalt. I know multiple people in the class above me that are working in CA this summer. They are not IP, not top 20% and they are all at V50's throughout SF, SV, and LA.

No offense to OP, but I suspect that bad interviewing combined with poor bidding strategy here.


Sorry to burst your bubble but I dont think it was bad interviewing. I got a gov job this summer where I didn't meet many of the qualifications because of my interview skills.

The only 2Ls I know at V50s with that grade profile are URMs, but i guess its true that some non top 20% non IP got biglaw (with a total about 30% biglaw according to CDO guess).

Re: 2Ls without jobs. Of the few I know, they def have a cover story for people they don't know that well. They obviously only let their closest friends know of the situation.

Last, in general 1Ls are really clueless about how the job market is. This is because 2Ls with SAs are very vocal about the sweet SA job they landed. Us other 2Ls are less vocal because we don't want to let 1Ls know how dire it really is. Having now known many graduating 3Ls, if you do not get an SA, you likely graduate unemployed. The few I know with jobs got lucky with feds, or are working at PD or prosecutors office as a clerk for min wage + no health insurance. With tuition at what it is, IBR is really the only option, and obviously that's a hard truth to face, but one I choose to acknowledge rather than ignore.

09042014
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:07 pm

Damn 30% is horrible. That's about half of what peer schools were placing. I wonder if it's lack of NYC bidding options?

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jtemp320
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby jtemp320 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:34 pm

Damn as a future Boalt 1L who just chose Boalt over CCNP etc. because I wanted to work in California the OP is scaring the crap out of me...I think I might have to stop reading TLS...

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby Stringer Bell » Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:38 pm

Only 30% of c/o 2012 got biglaw SA positions from Boalt? That's atrocious. That number wouldn't surprise me for c/o 2011 though.

NarwhalPunter
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby NarwhalPunter » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:10 pm

Wtf? So this would put UCLA/USC at what, 15%? Is that number possible?

09042014
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:13 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:Only 30% of c/o 2012 got biglaw SA positions from Boalt? That's atrocious. That number wouldn't surprise me for c/o 2011 though.


TBF 2012 was only minorly better than 2011 over all.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby Stringer Bell » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:18 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:Only 30% of c/o 2012 got biglaw SA positions from Boalt? That's atrocious. That number wouldn't surprise me for c/o 2011 though.


TBF 2012 was only minorly better than 2011 over all.


Overall that's the impression I'm under, but I thought the schools that got disproportianately hammered kind of smoothed out back with their peers though. Wasn't this the case with Michigan?

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jtemp320
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby jtemp320 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:23 pm

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... OLS_REPORT

For 2010 Boalt was in 7th place with 45% in the NLJ250...Its hard to believe its at 30% now...and if it is... it is hard to believe its because every hiring partner suddenly started hating on Berkeley...30% for Boalt C'of 2012 would mean an (another further) epic implosion for the California market or for BigLaw in general right? Anecdotally, I'd heard that if anything, things were supposed to be slightly better for the classes of 2011 and 2012 then for the class of 2010?

09042014
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:27 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:Only 30% of c/o 2012 got biglaw SA positions from Boalt? That's atrocious. That number wouldn't surprise me for c/o 2011 though.


TBF 2012 was only minorly better than 2011 over all.


Overall that's the impression I'm under, but I thought the schools that got disproportianately hammered kind of smoothed out back with their peers though. Wasn't this the case with Michigan?


Yea but I think Michigan was a case of very terrible advice from Career Services. They basically told their grads with no ties to Chicago to flock there. Which is a mistake, because 1) Chicago wants ties from Mich students and 2) Chicago was TTT as fuck in 09 and 10.

But Boalt might just be the product of the sorry state in California. NYC firms never heavily recruited there in the past because Boalt kids didn't want NYC. A

09042014
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:28 pm

jtemp320 wrote:http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202483173162&LAW_SCHOOLS_REPORT

For 2010 Boalt was in 7th place with 45% in the NLJ250...Its hard to believe its at 30% now...and if it is... it is hard to believe its because every hiring partner suddenly started hating on Berkeley...30% for Boalt C'of 2012 would mean an (another further) epic implosion for the California market or for BigLaw in general right? Anecdotally, I'd heard that if anything, things were supposed to be slightly better for the classes of 2011 and 2012 then for the class of 2010?


Class of 2010 did OCI before the economy crashed.

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stratocophic
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby stratocophic » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:31 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
jtemp320 wrote:http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202483173162&LAW_SCHOOLS_REPORT

For 2010 Boalt was in 7th place with 45% in the NLJ250...Its hard to believe its at 30% now...and if it is... it is hard to believe its because every hiring partner suddenly started hating on Berkeley...30% for Boalt C'of 2012 would mean an (another further) epic implosion for the California market or for BigLaw in general right? Anecdotally, I'd heard that if anything, things were supposed to be slightly better for the classes of 2011 and 2012 then for the class of 2010?


Class of 2010 did OCI before the economy crashed.
Also a big difference between hating on B and California being a job wasteland.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby Stringer Bell » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:34 pm

jtemp320 wrote:http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202483173162&LAW_SCHOOLS_REPORT

For 2010 Boalt was in 7th place with 45% in the NLJ250...Its hard to believe its at 30% now...and if it is... it is hard to believe its because every hiring partner suddenly started hating on Berkeley...30% for Boalt C'of 2012 would mean an (another further) epic implosion for the California market or for BigLaw in general right? Anecdotally, I'd heard that if anything, things were supposed to be slightly better for the classes of 2011 and 2012 then for the class of 2010?


2011 will be worse than 2010. C/O 2010 had a bunch of SA's get no offered but C/O 2011 was the worst OCI thus far. Supposedly Michigan's NLJ placement is going to be like 35% or so for the next class because their career services advised students to bid heavily on Chicago and Chicago got pwned. If California is in that bad of shape it's not unfeasible that it could be the same scenario for Boalt. I've read on here about 2011 carnage there, but I would have figured their students would have bid more heavily on NY and their placement would have been 40-50% for 2012.

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jtemp320
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby jtemp320 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:37 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:
jtemp320 wrote:http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202483173162&LAW_SCHOOLS_REPORT

For 2010 Boalt was in 7th place with 45% in the NLJ250...Its hard to believe its at 30% now...and if it is... it is hard to believe its because every hiring partner suddenly started hating on Berkeley...30% for Boalt C'of 2012 would mean an (another further) epic implosion for the California market or for BigLaw in general right? Anecdotally, I'd heard that if anything, things were supposed to be slightly better for the classes of 2011 and 2012 then for the class of 2010?


2011 will be worse than 2010. C/O 2010 had a bunch of SA's get no offered but C/O 2011 was the worst OCI thus far. Supposedly Michigan's NLJ placement is going to be like 35% or so for the next class because their career services advised students to bid heavily on Chicago and Chicago got pwned. If California is in that bad of shape it's not unfeasible that it could be the same scenario for Boalt. I've read on here about 2011 carnage there, but I would have figured their students would have bid more heavily on NY and their placement would have been 40-50% for 2012.


oh well there you go 0L ignorance/denial exposed...damn, scary...

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby Stringer Bell » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:37 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Yea but I think Michigan was a case of very terrible advice from Career Services. They basically told their grads with no ties to Chicago to flock there. Which is a mistake, because 1) Chicago wants ties from Mich students and 2) Chicago was TTT as fuck in 09 and 10.

But Boalt might just be the product of the sorry state in California. NYC firms never heavily recruited there in the past because Boalt kids didn't want NYC. A


I can buy that.

09042014
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:42 pm

stratocophic wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
jtemp320 wrote:http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202483173162&LAW_SCHOOLS_REPORT

For 2010 Boalt was in 7th place with 45% in the NLJ250...Its hard to believe its at 30% now...and if it is... it is hard to believe its because every hiring partner suddenly started hating on Berkeley...30% for Boalt C'of 2012 would mean an (another further) epic implosion for the California market or for BigLaw in general right? Anecdotally, I'd heard that if anything, things were supposed to be slightly better for the classes of 2011 and 2012 then for the class of 2010?


Class of 2010 did OCI before the economy crashed.
Also a big difference between hating on B and California being a job wasteland.


Lack of national placement is a valid criticism. If 30% is true. Honestly I would have thought at least 45%.

Schools like Dooook and NW are doubling 30%.

I don't think 30% is definitely bullshit, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was higher.
Last edited by 09042014 on Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rock-N-Roll
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby Rock-N-Roll » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:42 pm

I too am skeptical of the OP's claims.

These - I'm a top student at berkeley and can't get a job threads have come up before viewtopic.php?f=23&t=145244 (I remember at least one other example but can't find it again), and there as in this thread there is some suspicious information being presented.

Plus, why come on TLS after 2 years of law school and now at this time create a brand new identity (boaltrising3l) just to post something like this? Where has OP been before?

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Zugzwang
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby Zugzwang » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:47 pm

Rock-N-Roll wrote:Plus, why come on TLS after 2 years of law school and now at this time create a brand new identity (boaltrising3l) just to post something like this? Where has OP been before?

Do you really expect people to use their old account to advertise that they're unemployed? You're fucking clueless. Why the fuck would anyone do that, especially when other posters probably know exactly who they are?

If I were in his shoes I sure as hell would create a new account for the sole purpose of making this thread. And I would hide behind a proxy in case a moderator got curious.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Boalt 3L worth returning to school? (Employment Prospects)

Postby Stringer Bell » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:48 pm

Rock-N-Roll wrote:Plus, why come on TLS after 2 years of law school and now at this time create a brand new identity (boaltrising3l) just to post something like this? Where has OP been before?


Could be a flame, but it could also be an alt. I'm somewhat skeptical of the 30% number as well. I don't think it's inconceivable, but I would definitely expect higher.




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