1L and 2L Summer Employment Forum

[BlueDiamond]

if asked then sorry and please link me to it..

what is the common belief on applying for 1L and 2L summer employment in cases where youd be applying to work for multiple people that have a lot of contact with one another? Judges who work in the same courthouse or sit on the same bench? Or, if applying to USAO positions where there is one US attorney that has multiple district offices? Will these things usually be talked about between judges or between district offices that you apply to?

I ask because I wonder if it is safe to only change one or two paragraphs to my cover letter and leave the opening and closing the same or if I should rework the entire letter?

Edit: I know they get tons of applications and dont compare them all... I mean if I were to be selected for summer employment at one.. would they be likely to contact other judges or district offices they work with and see if I sent an application there also?

[thesealocust]

Hiring summers is way low on the priority list, they might talk applicants but they won't swap cover letters. You'll be fine reusing substantial amounts of language. A lot of it should be the same anyway - if you're from Iowa, and the court is in Iowa, obviously each letter will include the same info about that bit of your background, neh?

[BlueDiamond]

thanks thats a relief.. should save me a lot of time

[2LLLL]

I highly doubt it, unless you wrote something extremely unique and amazing in your cover letter

[BlueDiamond]

Rather than start a new post I have a new question to ask here..

I've started to compile lists of places I plan on writing cover letters for over the next few months before my 1L year.. Literally just kept adding anything that sounded like an option I'd be okay with and was located either near where the law school I'm attending is or near my hometown. I now have about 150 firms.. small to medium to big with the bigger ones obviously being hail marys.. about 200 public interest jobs.. and about 100 judicial externships again ranging from city county state federal judges.. with the federal of course being the most difficult and long shots..

everyone has said that you should apply as broadly as possible and maybe some have applied to even more than this before.. however, I've also read that it just has to be legal the rest doesnt matter for the most part unless you get CoA or V100 1L SA..

my situation is that I have guaranteed summer employment in my hometown DA's office if I want it (I'd likely be one of the only people applying even if it wasnt guaranteed anyway.. its not very prestigious but hey).. with this in my back pocket would I be better off choosing like my top 40 to 50 choices and perfecting cover letters to those positions? I feel like that is about as many as I could do before getting sick and tired of it and sending what people here refer to as "form" cover letters

really just looking for any opinions on all of this.. thanks

[BlueDiamond]

bumping my own post for when people wake up.. and yes, I hate work right now

[dood]

bumping my own post for when people wake up.. and yes, I hate work right now

yea ok i read ur poast. go with #2.

PROTIP: target the CoA that covers your hometown state. target the judges very specifically, i.e. if u have any connection (grew up in same state, went to same UG, law school, etc).

[gwuorbust]

compromise brah. write a specific cover letters for your top choices and then form letter the rest. just make sure it sounds like it is a custom letter and you're good to go.

[BlueDiamond]

bumping my own post for when people wake up.. and yes, I hate work right now

yea ok i read ur poast. go with #2.

PROTIP: target the CoA that covers your hometown state. target the judges very specifically, i.e. if u have any connection (grew up in same state, went to same UG, law school, etc).

okay I'll do this.. unfortunately, I don't think I'd have any chance at the Second Circuit.. but I get the basic point and will try and search for connections with schools/location

[thesealocust]

Very few CoA judges hire summer interns. They're hard to get, but there are also relatively few people applying for them, so it's not exactly a huge competition.

[YourCaptain]

but there are also relatively few people applying for them, so it's not exactly a huge competition.

This is egregiously false.

A. Still a huge number of applicants (there's just a higher bar)

B. Requirements are higher - your grades need to be stellar.

In terms of probability I would treat it like a 1L SA (possibly lower chance actually; the SA is better financially but it's like a 4% chance compared to a 5% chance)

[thesealocust]

but there are also relatively few people applying for them, so it's not exactly a huge competition.

This is egregiously false.

A. Still a huge number of applicants (there's just a higher bar)

B. Requirements are higher - your grades need to be stellar.

In terms of probability I would treat it like a 1L SA (possibly lower chance actually; the SA is better financially but it's like a 4% chance compared to a 5% chance)

I'm a [rising] 3L, and I know a small handful of people who applied for CoA judges, and the ones who got it often did so before grades came out. I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

[YourCaptain]

Might depend on school; when I interviewed all of the coa judges I applied to requested grades.

You might be right about that; my point was towards your point stating that it's not a huge competition.

[thesealocust]

Might depend on school; when I interviewed all of the coa judges I applied to requested grades.

You might be right about that; my point was towards your point stating that it's not a huge competition.

I think I wasn't clear and/or you misread what I wrote. I wasn't implying "there is light competition" - I was trying to say that the applicant pool is small as is the open job pool. Basically it's neither a large nor an efficient market - most people are looking elsewhere, most judges aren't hiring, etc. I responded because a statement like "low chances at 2nd circuit" is sort of missing the point, because you can't really anticipate your chances for such one-off positions as summer CoA internships.

Likewise, CoA internships and 1L SAs are out of this world opportunities for a young law student, but won't really turn heads at OCI. It is very true that doing something legal and being able to chat about it matters far beyond what you actually do.

[BlueDiamond]

Might depend on school; when I interviewed all of the coa judges I applied to requested grades.

You might be right about that; my point was towards your point stating that it's not a huge competition.

I think I wasn't clear and/or you misread what I wrote. I wasn't implying "there is light competition" - I was trying to say that the applicant pool is small as is the open job pool. Basically it's neither a large nor an efficient market - most people are looking elsewhere, most judges aren't hiring, etc. I responded because a statement like "low chances at 2nd circuit" is sort of missing the point, because you can't really anticipate your chances for such one-off positions as summer CoA internships.

Likewise, CoA internships and 1L SAs are out of this world opportunities for a young law student, but won't really turn heads at OCI. It is very true that doing something legal and being able to chat about it matters far beyond what you actually do.

I feel like this somewhat reaffirms what I was hoping to do: Apply for positions that are great opportunities that under normal circumstances I would pass up because of the combination of time constraints, difficulty of getting the positions, and the need for any 1L summer job (meaning I'd likely apply to things giving me more of a realistic chance of employment or internship). Since I have a 1L summer legal internship lined up.. and firms at OCI do not distinguish between most 1L summer work.. I may as well shoot for the harder to get/more interesting opportunities while also saving time on the hundreds of cover letters I'd be writing when I could be studying for my 1L classes.. at this point my plan is to pick about 15 judges, 15 firms, 15 public interest, and 15 government jobs and do all the cover letters this summer.. maybe one will fall into place, but if not I still have my hometown DA and some small hometown firms that would let me do some free work over the summer

[thesealocust]

Your logic is fine, but the # of apps your describing substantially eclipses the number sent out by nearly every other law student I know. Some people mass-mail a hundred places, most people do not.

[gwuorbust]

Your logic is fine, but the # of apps your describing substantially eclipses the number sent out by nearly every other law student I know. Some people mass-mail a hundred places, most people do not.

I think the problem with most law students application strategy is lack of broad enough application. I plan on applying to between 250-500 firms on July 15. The goal should be mass customization. You should not send one "I want jerb" cover letter to all 250. But say you apply to like 50 maritime firms..for these have a maritime cover letter..and for 50 environment firms have an environment cover letter..etc

[Cool Brees]

Your logic is fine, but the # of apps your describing substantially eclipses the number sent out by nearly every other law student I know. Some people mass-mail a hundred places, most people do not.

I think the problem with most law students application strategy is lack of broad enough application. I plan on applying to between 250-500 firms on July 15. The goal should be mass customization. You should not send one "I want jerb" cover letter to all 250. But say you apply to like 50 maritime firms..for these have a maritime cover letter..and for 50 environment firms have an environment cover letter..etc

I have a question about this strategy as it appears to be the credited strategy ITE. How do you plan on handling multiple callbacks and interviews? I know the hope with sending out 100's of apps is that you will get a shot at landing any job, but isn't possible, even likely, that you will get more than one employer to call you back? Additionally, it seems unlikely that the firms would all respond on the same timeline. Say firm 499 on your list (ranked 1-500, with 1 being the best) interviews you 2 weeks after your apps were sent, second interview a week later, and it looks like you will get an offer. Then firms 249 and 400 contact you for an interview.

Do you take the first one and run with it thankful to have an opportunity? Or do you try to hold out at all? I realize this is a pretty general question about a situation with many possible outcomes and scenarios, but what is YOUR plan for handling callbacks?

[gwuorbust]

Your logic is fine, but the # of apps your describing substantially eclipses the number sent out by nearly every other law student I know. Some people mass-mail a hundred places, most people do not.

I think the problem with most law students application strategy is lack of broad enough application. I plan on applying to between 250-500 firms on July 15. The goal should be mass customization. You should not send one "I want jerb" cover letter to all 250. But say you apply to like 50 maritime firms..for these have a maritime cover letter..and for 50 environment firms have an environment cover letter..etc

I have a question about this strategy as it appears to be the credited strategy ITE. How do you plan on handling multiple callbacks and interviews? I know the hope with sending out 100's of apps is that you will get a shot at landing any job, but isn't possible, even likely, that you will get more than one employer to call you back? Additionally, it seems unlikely that the firms would all respond on the same timeline. Say firm 499 on your list (ranked 1-500, with 1 being the best) interviews you 2 weeks after your apps were sent, second interview a week later, and it looks like you will get an offer. Then firms 249 and 400 contact you for an interview.

Do you take the first one and run with it thankful to have an opportunity? Or do you try to hold out at all? I realize this is a pretty general question about a situation with many possible outcomes and scenarios, but what is YOUR plan for handling callbacks?

This is a very good question and something that I am going to have to manage. What I plan on doing is sending out my first applications to firms where I expect a low callback rate but high potential return. I'm median at Tulane so not competitive for biglaw. midlaw is hard to get because it is unpredictable. I plan on doing almost all midlaw for the first wave. I'd figure the interview rate could be anywhere between 1 to 10%. So if I apply to 400 firms I could have between 4 and 40 interviews. that is a wide range. and I have no idea how many callbacks I'll get, if any. If after a month I've gotten nothing from that first wave then I'll move on to mid-small FL firms, and I'll just keep doing this until I get something.

[Cool Brees]

This is a very good question and something that I am going to have to manage. What I plan on doing is sending out my first applications to firms where I expect a low callback rate but high potential return. I'm median at Tulane so not competitive for biglaw. midlaw is hard to get because it is unpredictable. I plan on doing almost all midlaw for the first wave. I'd figure the interview rate could be anywhere between 1 to 10%. So if I apply to 400 firms I could have between 4 and 40 interviews. that is a wide range. and I have no idea how many callbacks I'll get, if any. If after a month I've gotten nothing from that first wave then I'll move on to mid-small FL firms, and I'll just keep doing this until I get something.

Thanks for the quick reply. I know it seems kind of common sense/ just play it by ear, and there is no blanket answer due to the large number of possible scenarios. Like you said it could be 4 or 40. But, I must say that the wave idea seems good, as opposed to blasting them out all at once.

I'm not sure if legal hiring is any different, but most other jobs there is a waiting period to even get a call back, then one round of interviewing, more waiting, another interview, more waiting, maybe another interview, more waiting, and then a job offer. The process could sprawl out over months. Especially, if the hiring company is not in a bind. So, it would suck to get a call back from a top choice after being well along the process with just a choice.

[BlueDiamond]

This is a very good question and something that I am going to have to manage. What I plan on doing is sending out my first applications to firms where I expect a low callback rate but high potential return. I'm median at Tulane so not competitive for biglaw. midlaw is hard to get because it is unpredictable. I plan on doing almost all midlaw for the first wave. I'd figure the interview rate could be anywhere between 1 to 10%. So if I apply to 400 firms I could have between 4 and 40 interviews. that is a wide range. and I have no idea how many callbacks I'll get, if any. If after a month I've gotten nothing from that first wave then I'll move on to mid-small FL firms, and I'll just keep doing this until I get something.

I understand what you've been saying in previous posts and agree that many would say to apply broadly. I may still do that in the end but I feel like your reasoning here is flawed.. A 1% chance at each firm doesnt mean you will get 1 interview for every 100 firms that you apply to. Either way I'll apply as broadly as I can with the amount of time I have. Who knows.. maybe I'll finish the first 50-60 cover letters i was gonna write in a month and have time to write 50 more. Main point is I want it out of the way before I get to school and I appreciate your input. I'll probably end up somewhere between my idea and your idea haha

[gwuorbust]

This is a very good question and something that I am going to have to manage. What I plan on doing is sending out my first applications to firms where I expect a low callback rate but high potential return. I'm median at Tulane so not competitive for biglaw. midlaw is hard to get because it is unpredictable. I plan on doing almost all midlaw for the first wave. I'd figure the interview rate could be anywhere between 1 to 10%. So if I apply to 400 firms I could have between 4 and 40 interviews. that is a wide range. and I have no idea how many callbacks I'll get, if any. If after a month I've gotten nothing from that first wave then I'll move on to mid-small FL firms, and I'll just keep doing this until I get something.

Thanks for the quick reply. I know it seems kind of common sense/ just play it by ear, and there is no blanket answer due to the large number of possible scenarios. Like you said it could be 4 or 40. But, I must say that the wave idea seems good, as opposed to blasting them out all at once.

I'm not sure if legal hiring is any different, but most other jobs there is a waiting period to even get a call back, then one round of interviewing, more waiting, another interview, more waiting, maybe another interview, more waiting, and then a job offer. The process could sprawl out over months. Especially, if the hiring company is not in a bind. So, it would suck to get a call back from a top choice after being well along the process with just a choice.

no doubt that legal hiring is quite a sprawl. for this (1L) summer I applied to ~200 places and turned down probably 7 offers before I found my dream job. It was really risky because I could have screwed myself out of anything. but I feel most employers will be, for the most part, timely and say "fuck off," or "when can we interview you" or "contact us later."

and @ BlueDiamond, you are 100% correct that there is not absolute correlation. A bad cover letter can sink you. but I'm willing to bet that if you took one resume and just changed the school at the top to Harvard, Emory, Florida Coastal..even if the resumes were exactly the same otherwise.. if you sent 100 applications for each "candidate" to the same 100 firms...

the number of interviews would probably look like:

Harvard >>> Emory >>>>>>> Coastal.