firms don't want to hire 3Ls b/c.....

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jujujohn
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:40 am

firms don't want to hire 3Ls b/c.....

Postby jujujohn » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:39 am

(1)they will not have the opportunity to evaluate one's work before hiring you
and
(2) you must suck if you couldn't secure an employment by your 3L year.

any specific advice on how to counter these sentiments on (very limited) interviews?

thanks and easy on the flame pls.

Paul Muad'dib
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:04 pm

Re: firms don't want to hire 3Ls b/c.....

Postby Paul Muad'dib » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:49 am

Right now, firms aren't hiring 3Ls because there are fully three years' worth of already licensed attorneys who are still looking for jobs and who will work for a pittance, or even work for free to avoid a resume gap.

Only the very top-tier schools are still able to secure SA positions for some of their 2Ls, and those jobs are becoming more scarce as firms are beginning to shift to using more contract attorneys and legal process outsourcing companies.

Tsispilos
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:37 pm

Re: firms don't want to hire 3Ls b/c.....

Postby Tsispilos » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:59 am

Paul Muad'dib wrote:Right now, firms aren't hiring 3Ls because there are fully three years' worth of already licensed attorneys who are still looking for jobs and who will work for a pittance, or even work for free to avoid a resume gap.

Only the very top-tier schools are still able to secure SA positions for some of their 2Ls, and those jobs are becoming more scarce as firms are beginning to shift to using more contract attorneys and legal process outsourcing companies.


TITCR. I'm actually surprised any 2Ls are still getting jobs.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: firms don't want to hire 3Ls b/c.....

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:02 pm

Paul Muad'dib wrote:Right now, firms aren't hiring 3Ls because there are fully three years' worth of already licensed attorneys who are still looking for jobs and who will work for a pittance, or even work for free to avoid a resume gap.

Only the very top-tier schools are still able to secure SA positions for some of their 2Ls, and those jobs are becoming more scarce as firms are beginning to shift to using more contract attorneys and legal process outsourcing companies.


tcr. But I'm going on the 3L job hunt myself, so they way I plan to deal with the above two problems is:

jujujohn wrote:(1)they will not have the opportunity to evaluate one's work before hiring you
and
(2) you must suck if you couldn't secure an employment by your 3L year.

any specific advice on how to counter these sentiments on (very limited) interviews?

thanks and easy on the flame pls.


1) You need to speak cogently and in very specific terms about the work you have done between 2L and 3L OCI. Convince them that, if the work were something they had given you, this is the level of attention the project would receive from you. Firms know junior associate work doesn't necessarily require the same intellectual horsepower as it takes to get top 1/3 at a T10 school. What it does require is obsessive attention to detail.

Also, use concrete ways others have evaluated your work. If someone used something you wrote in a court filing, for example, that means it was good enough others could rely on it to go in front of a judge.

2) You need to stress how you were given responsibility at other jobs/positions you held, journal, summer 2L job, clinic, etc. This process is a lot like dating. The more people think you are a good catch, or the more you appear to be one, the more attention you will get.

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thesealocust
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Re: firms don't want to hire 3Ls b/c.....

Postby thesealocust » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:22 pm

(3) none of the above. As alluded to above, they don't hire 3Ls because they don't need to. The 2L system works just fine and no firm is hurting for hires at this juncture.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: firms don't want to hire 3Ls b/c.....

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:15 pm

thesealocust wrote:(3) none of the above. As alluded to above, they don't hire 3Ls because they don't need to. The 2L system works just fine and no firm is hurting for hires at this juncture.


I know of four 3Ls hired last year at my school, all didn't have firm jobs 2L. Rare, but it happens. It's worth trying to get a 3L biglaw position as long as you don't stop chasing down every other lead imaginable.

Anonymous User
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Re: firms don't want to hire 3Ls b/c.....

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:40 am

Paul Muad'dib wrote:Right now, firms aren't hiring 3Ls because there are fully three years' worth of already licensed attorneys who are still looking for jobs and who will work for a pittance, or even work for free to avoid a resume gap.

Only the very top-tier schools are still able to secure SA positions for some of their 2Ls, and those jobs are becoming more scarce as firms are beginning to shift to using more contract attorneys and legal process outsourcing companies.



I respectfully disagree. I am at a T2 school, with bottom % ranking and average personality. I come from a working class family with no ties whatsoever to the legal community. I got my paid 2L summer associate through networking--through cold calling and nothing else, as members of the TLS forums recommended doing.

If I can do it, you can do it too. I think this "only the very top-tier schools are still able to secure SA positions for some of their 2Ls" myth is doing great damage to the self-esteem of TLS forum members, and I think there are many people who can and will get jobs through networking. Don't let people's cynical comments discourage you!

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gwuorbust
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Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:37 pm

Re: firms don't want to hire 3Ls b/c.....

Postby gwuorbust » Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:I think there are many people who can and will get jobs through networking. Don't let people's cynical comments discourage you!


how dare you challenge the fabric of the matrix that is TLS!!!

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: firms don't want to hire 3Ls b/c.....

Postby 09042014 » Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:44 am

jujujohn wrote:(1)they will not have the opportunity to evaluate one's work before hiring you
and
(2) you must suck if you couldn't secure an employment by your 3L year.

any specific advice on how to counter these sentiments on (very limited) interviews?

thanks and easy on the flame pls.


It's mostly 2. They could always LAtham your ass if you don't work out.




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