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sanetruth
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Re: How do you know if a law firm is EVIL?!!!

Postby sanetruth » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:28 pm

wojo96 wrote: Blind speculation: there is no need to get defensive about your job.


Not blind speculation. There is a thread about what kind of work experience NU likes, and someone mentioned that they specifically don't like paralegals. This was raised as potentially false, and some NU kids came and said that while someone in the administration did say that once, that it was by no means accurate and that about 75% of the people with work experience came from the legal industry. The thread is around.



wojo96 wrote: the competitive nature of the application process establishes that you’ve been professionally vetted


Are you insinuating that getting a paralegal position at Wachtell, S&C, Cravath etc. is not competitive? It's certainly not like going through a consulting job application process (in that there aren't case studies and day long interviews), but these firms often have absurd qualification standards (such as only Ivy league grads with 3.5+ gpa's can apply. this is not made up). I'm not saying that makes them as good, I personally think some of the required qualifications are complete jokes, and a full day case study interview is probably a lot more accurate as a vetting procedure, but no one is going to look at a V5-20 paralegal and say they weren't a competitive job applicant.

You are correct that the popularity of these jobs for OLs makes it harder to distinguish yourself, but keep in mind that the vast majority of applicants don't have WE at all. Also, which would you prefer, a job that helps you get into a good law school, or a job that helps you get a good SA position? They're often not the same thing. Adcomms will think you're 'different' and 'competitive' cause you were in the finance department at Pfizer, but the judge you're trying to clerk for or the associates in the litigation dept at any V100 won't find it relevant, and will likely ask tough questions about it.

I'm just saying, really, not to discount one or the other based on assumptions. You have to weigh your options and consider your goals.

wojo96
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:51 am

Re: How do you know if a law firm is EVIL?!!!

Postby wojo96 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:12 pm

You’re missing the point. A paralegal at a V50 is in a good position (regarding admission and SA employment). It’s the rest of the paralegal distribution that are misguided about that value of an entry level legal position.

Again, if you have well-rounded T1 credentials, why trade down for a misvalued paralegal position that you concede is

sanetruth wrote:not like going through a consulting job application process


and

sanetruth wrote:makes it harder to distinguish yourself


when you can 1) do something more elite/lucrative or 2) something you enjoy/about which you’re actually passionate?

nickwar
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:03 pm

Re: How do you know if a law firm is EVIL?!!!

Postby nickwar » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:26 pm

If you're unwilling to defend corporations "like Exxon" (what's so bad about Exxon, anyway?) you're clearly not meant to work in the legal field. Nor will you get a job at a respectable firm if anyone reads this post.

Sorry, but grow up.

09042014
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Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: How do you know if a law firm is EVIL?!!!

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:29 pm

sanetruth wrote:
wojo96 wrote: Blind speculation: there is no need to get defensive about your job.


Not blind speculation. There is a thread about what kind of work experience NU likes, and someone mentioned that they specifically don't like paralegals. This was raised as potentially false, and some NU kids came and said that while someone in the administration did say that once, that it was by no means accurate and that about 75% of the people with work experience came from the legal industry. The thread is around.


Definitely not 75% of people at NU had legal work experience. Maybe 10%. But that's a lot considering how small the paralegal field is compared to the economy as a whole.

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BackToTheOldHouse
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Re: How do you know if a law firm is EVIL?!!!

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:31 pm

drylo wrote:
TIKITEMBO wrote:Okay, a little dramatic. Basically I'm looking for legal work before I go into law school but before applying to some of these firms I'd like to know if it's worth my time. I'm not looking to give help to Exxon Mobile and it doesn't necessarily have to be an Erin Brockovich moment, I would be perfectly happy learning from a firm that does pretty neutral business. Unfortunately most terms advertise what type of law they do, but I don't know if words like "Health Corporate" mean and for some reason firms don't seem to advertise that they work for the Legion of Doom, so I'm not sure where to begin looking for that info.

If you have any advice, I would greatly appreciate it.


Please (please!) tell me this a flame.

+1

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TIKITEMBO
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Re: How do you know if a law firm is EVIL?!!!

Postby TIKITEMBO » Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:30 am

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Last edited by TIKITEMBO on Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Renzo
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Re: How do you know if a law firm is EVIL?!!!

Postby Renzo » Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:22 pm

nickwar wrote:If you're unwilling to defend corporations "like Exxon" (what's so bad about Exxon, anyway?) you're clearly not meant to work in the legal field. Nor will you get a job at a respectable firm if anyone reads this post.

Sorry, but grow up.



Take your own advice, clown.

I have a fancy job at a big law firm with prestigious clients. And, while I'm more than happy to defend the big banks and bankers who broke the economy, and shady drugs companies, and even tobacco companies, I have a moral problem with union-busting, so I made it clear in my callbacks that I didn't want to do employer-side labor law . Somehow, despite my morality, I have managed to to get a "respectable" job.

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drylo
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Re: How do you know if a law firm is EVIL?!!!

Postby drylo » Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:36 pm

TIKITEMBO wrote:
It varies firm to firm. At one firm I worked at "legal assistant" was the senior paralegals; at another firm "legal assistant" meant "better paid secretary".


This is what I've been coming across while looking at job descriptions for various legal assistant/paralegal positions.

If you're unwilling to defend corporations "like Exxon" (what's so bad about Exxon, anyway?) you're clearly not meant to work in the legal field. Nor will you get a job at a respectable firm if anyone reads this post.

Sorry, but grow up.


What can I say, I think one should think about if their efforts 40-70 hours a week are going toward something they'd actually support. I believe everyone should have rights to legal representation, but it's not the kind of thing I'd like to spend all my time representing. I do know a guy who went to an interview for a firm and when he saw a little figurine from a gun lobby organization the firm represented on the interviewers desk he said he was sorry but that he wouldn't be able to work for the firm. He said he regretted not taking the position now, but he always works as a supreme court commissioner which I wouldn't think is too bad. Not with a firm though, you are correct there. Whatever, different priorities. One of mine is not accepting money from organizations or companies when I don't agree with their actions.

Also, OP, sounds like your looking for PI work. Just avoid biglaw altogether.


That seems to be the case unfortunately. I think it's been well established though even with all the obsession with Big Law on here that other options are possible. However, I haven't yet found a way to really research smaller or mid-sized firms. Less information on them, but I'm thinking it will be deeper research.


I guess by now I realize that this is (sadly) not a flame.

When you say "smaller or mid-sized firms," what do you mean? And what is so wrong with Exxon?

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ResolutePear
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Re: How do you know if a law firm is EVIL?!!!

Postby ResolutePear » Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:40 pm

I..

Want to work at an EVIL law firm.

Preferably around Slaughter Swamp... preferably in the Hall of Doom.

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blurbz
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Re: How do you know if a law firm is EVIL?!!!

Postby blurbz » Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:58 pm

The positive externalities of most of these large corporations far outweigh their faults. The knee-jerk reaction of the left (Of which I am a proud member) to hate all large corporations is shortsighted and impracticable. Just focus on the good: Where would we be without oil? What would we do without pesticides? etc. and recognize that very few entities, be they people or corporations, are wholly good or wholly evil. Just do good work when you're on the clock and volunteer or donate money when you have the time/funds to do so.

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TIKITEMBO
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Re: How do you know if a law firm is EVIL?!!!

Postby TIKITEMBO » Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:12 pm

.
Last edited by TIKITEMBO on Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: How do you know if a law firm is EVIL?!!!

Postby Holly Golightly » Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:26 pm

I can't speak to OCI, but my paralegal experience absolutely got me the interview at the government agency I'm interning at this summer, because I had previous experience in this field. Also (and keep in mind I worked for a small boutique-y firm), I now have a pretty great fall-back option if I decide that's what I want to do.

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Lawquacious
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Re: How do you know if a law firm is EVIL?!!!

Postby Lawquacious » Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:13 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:I doubt that as a paralegal or young associate that you will be privy to the inner workings of the legal world.



If by 'inner workings' you simply mean making the key decisions I think you are probably right. But in other regards I think that what paralegals do is about as 'inner workings' as it gets; I believe they are generally privy to a tremendous amount of client information, and that they are involved in minute detail with client issues and legal proceedings. I suppose it depends on the firm or organization how much various positions are privy to though, and it may be true that support-type positions aren't always given a full-picture of what a corporate client is doing.

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Rooney
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Re: How do you know if a law firm is EVIL?!!!

Postby Rooney » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:16 am

Renzo wrote: I have a fancy job at a big law firm with prestigious clients.

Renzo
Posts: 4265
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:23 am

Re: How do you know if a law firm is EVIL?!!!

Postby Renzo » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:30 pm

Rooney wrote:
Renzo wrote: I have a fancy job at a big law firm with prestigious clients.


I forgot to add that I'm awesome at everything.

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Tim0thy222
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:57 am

Re: How do you know if a law firm is EVIL?!!!

Postby Tim0thy222 » Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:35 pm

blurbz wrote:The positive externalities of most of these large corporations far outweigh their faults. The knee-jerk reaction of the left (Of which I am a proud member) to hate all large corporations is shortsighted and impracticable. Just focus on the good: Where would we be without oil? What would we do without pesticides? etc. and recognize that very few entities, be they people or corporations, are wholly good or wholly evil. Just do good work when you're on the clock and volunteer or donate money when you have the time/funds to do so.


I think this is a good way of looking at it.

I was recently speaking to some wealthy/successful and yet morally upright friends of mine from India about wanting to be the good kind of lawyer and they made a similar point about doing good on the side. They argued that I will be better equipped to help those in need if I have the experience and financial resources that come from corporate/biglaw experience. This made a lot of sense to me.

It's tough though, because it seems like there would be certain issues that would be hard to swallow. For example, I would have a hard time representing Monsanto in their attempt to shut down a small farmer because a patented seed was blown onto the farmer's land by the wind. As a disclaimer, I don't know if this Monsanto example is really what's going on, but as I recall that is how it was presented in Food Inc, so I'm really using it more as a hypo than as a real example of what I'm opposed to.

So I haven't really taken a position on this whole thing or figured out what I'm going to do. I'm still mulling it over, and waiting to see what impressions the experiences of law school and summer positions leave on me.

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romothesavior
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Re: How do you know if a law firm is EVIL?!!!

Postby romothesavior » Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:46 pm

This thread is all kinds of stupid.

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ResolutePear
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Re: How do you know if a law firm is EVIL?!!!

Postby ResolutePear » Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:55 pm

romothesavior wrote:This thread is all kinds of stupid.


Thankfully I have been masterfully crafting my stupid to stand above the rest.

My stupid is the best. Admit it.

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romothesavior
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Re: How do you know if a law firm is EVIL?!!!

Postby romothesavior » Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:57 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
romothesavior wrote:This thread is all kinds of stupid.


Thankfully I have been masterfully crafting my stupid to stand above the rest.

My stupid is the best. Admit it.

Aye, sir, your stupid is so stupid it is actually... smart!

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ResolutePear
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Re: How do you know if a law firm is EVIL?!!!

Postby ResolutePear » Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:58 pm

romothesavior wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
romothesavior wrote:This thread is all kinds of stupid.


Thankfully I have been masterfully crafting my stupid to stand above the rest.

My stupid is the best. Admit it.

Aye, sir, your stupid is so stupid it is actually... smart!


I plan to drop out of law school and become a forum jockey; scouring the internetz and reporting it over a podcast.

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TIKITEMBO
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Re: How do you know if a law firm is EVIL?!!!

Postby TIKITEMBO » Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:18 pm

.




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