Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

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swittig
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Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

Postby swittig » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:59 pm

I start college next year and I plan to major in poli sci and follow the pre-law program at my school. I am wondering how much better the job prospects will be in 7 years, and if it is even worth pursuing a law degree. Specifically at a school like Santa Clara where only 25% of grads obtain full time employment.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:05 pm

Nobody knows.

Intentionally aiming for a school with job placement that crappy seems dumb. Aim higher, especially since you have your entire undergraduate career ahead of you.

If you're worried, major in something that can get you a job if you decide to not pursue law school. You can go to law school with any undergraduate degree, but with a pre-law degree, you're pretty much stuck in one track with no other options.

swittig
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Re: Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

Postby swittig » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:06 pm

I am not aiming for Santa Clara, I'm just saying that if my GPA and LSAT aren't as high as I want them to be, I'm wondering if it will even be practical to settle for a T2.

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dr123
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Re: Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

Postby dr123 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:07 pm

hold up a minute while I look in my crystal ball...

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Patriot1208
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Re: Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

Postby Patriot1208 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:08 pm

how can anyone answer this?

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Grizz
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Re: Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

Postby Grizz » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:09 pm

Lawl

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rayiner
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Re: Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

Postby rayiner » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:09 pm

No predicting the future, but Santa Clara wasn't worth it even during the recent boom, so even in a best-case scenario it's hard to imagine it being worth it after the bust.

swittig
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Re: Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

Postby swittig » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:09 pm

All I'm wondering is if there's expected to be any improvement at all or if the legal job market is permanently tanked with no hope of recovering with the rest of the economy.

071816
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Re: Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

Postby 071816 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:13 pm

--ImageRemoved--

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Grizz
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Re: Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

Postby Grizz » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:14 pm

swittig wrote:All I'm wondering is if there's expected to be any improvement at all or if the legal job market is permanently tanked with no hope of recovering with the rest of the economy.

dr123 wrote:hold up a minute while I look in my crystal ball...

swittig
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Re: Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

Postby swittig » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:21 pm

Image

ran12
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Re: Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

Postby ran12 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:22 pm

Prob will never recover. There's a surplus of lawyers to begin with and legal jobs aren't increasing. Considering there are more schools on the way and overenrollment to begin with, there are going to be more and more surplus of lawyers as the years go on.

CreativityKing
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Re: Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

Postby CreativityKing » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:24 pm

swittig wrote:All I'm wondering is if there's expected to be any improvement at all or if the legal job market is permanently tanked with no hope of recovering with the rest of the economy.


Clearly some number of people think prospects will get better; else they would not attend law school. I doubt whether Santa Clara will have zero students in four years, so there are at least that many people who think it is worth it.

I suspect there are also a significant number of people who think it won't get better. Basically, take your best guess, or toss a coin or something.

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SOCRATiC
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Re: Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

Postby SOCRATiC » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:32 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:Nobody knows.


With that being said, I think that it will not improve in the next seven years or so. At best, it'll probably stay the way it is right now..

With 40,000+ lawyers being pumped into the economy each year, I don't know why on earth you'd deliberately plan on attending a crappy law school before starting undergrad. As a tech person, I don't see law as a promising career path in the long-term - there's plenty enough reason to believe that a lot of what lawyers do today will be accomplished by intelligent machines within the next decade.

I'm not saying that computers will draft all the contracts in the future. But computers are already better at document review than humans are (under certain conditions, that is). Also, the information retrieval technology that lawyers use (i.e. lexis) is abysmal; spicing things up with more effective language technology tools would also cut a lot of the research time needed per case.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, and you can't underestimate how advanced some of these technologies could be.

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ThomasMN
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Re: Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

Postby ThomasMN » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:41 pm

CreativityKing wrote:
swittig wrote:All I'm wondering is if there's expected to be any improvement at all or if the legal job market is permanently tanked with no hope of recovering with the rest of the economy.


Clearly some number of people think prospects will get better; else they would not attend law school. I doubt whether Santa Clara will have zero students in four years, so there are at least that many people who think it is worth it.

I suspect there are also a significant number of people who think it won't get better. Basically, take your best guess, or toss a coin or something.


The problem is that many people are not really putting a whole lot of rational thought into the whole higher-education game. I think some people basically just hope things will be better and hope that they will be in the top 10% of their class that can actually get a job of some kind.

I bank on pessimism. Get a degree in something that has job prospects outside of law.

CreativityKing
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Re: Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

Postby CreativityKing » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:50 pm

ThomasMN wrote:
CreativityKing wrote:
swittig wrote:All I'm wondering is if there's expected to be any improvement at all or if the legal job market is permanently tanked with no hope of recovering with the rest of the economy.


Clearly some number of people think prospects will get better; else they would not attend law school. I doubt whether Santa Clara will have zero students in four years, so there are at least that many people who think it is worth it.

I suspect there are also a significant number of people who think it won't get better. Basically, take your best guess, or toss a coin or something.


The problem is that many people are not really putting a whole lot of rational thought into the whole higher-education game. I think some people basically just hope things will be better and hope that they will be in the top 10% of their class that can actually get a job of some kind.

I bank on pessimism. Get a degree in something that has job prospects outside of law.


This is a very valid point. I should have started what I said with "Assuming law school applicants are rational..."

But that would have arguably blown up the whole point.

plum
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Re: Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

Postby plum » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:24 am

if you asked 3 months from now, no one can tell you and you're asking for 7 years. welcome to the 21st century credit economy/house of cards, ready to topple at a moments notice. embrace the uncertainty otherwise you have a long tense life ahead of you son.

Paul Muad'dib
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Re: Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

Postby Paul Muad'dib » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:31 pm

ran12 wrote:Prob will never recover. There's a surplus of lawyers to begin with and legal jobs aren't increasing. Considering there are more schools on the way and overenrollment to begin with, there are going to be more and more surplus of lawyers as the years go on.


This.

Realize too that legal process outsourcing, automated discovery tools, and fewer permanent partner-track positions means that even if the economy overall recovers, the legal profession has already contracted significantly, and the paradigm has permanently shifted.

Get a degree in something useful while you still can.

NotMyRealName09
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Re: Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:20 pm

Yes. Supply and demand works. Too much supply depresses wages, pushes people out of the market until equilibrium is again achieved, then wages stabilize and rise again. If you stick around, people will drop out of the profession, bringing balance back to the force. In my opinion it isn't the "job market" that failed, it's the oversupply of lawyers, the irrational exuberance of the golden ticket, and failure to adapt. Rationality has a way of creeping back into the market (see: this forum). People are always suing people, and someone has to shepherd the money along the way. I'm not saying it will "go back" to how it was, but America is too rich to never need lawyers. Just be the cream and you will rise.

Unfortunately, many people don't realize they are not as good as they think they are, and they say "Oh Cursed Legal Market! Why Me?!"

The difficult answer is, because you suck, are unlucky, or both.

Check with me in seven years, see if I've changed my mind.

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gwuorbust
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Re: Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

Postby gwuorbust » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:15 am

Paul Muad'dib wrote:
Get a degree in something useful while you still can.

LurkerNoMore
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Re: Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

Postby LurkerNoMore » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:25 pm

Even if your plan is law school, doing a "pre-law" program is probably the worst way to get there.

Get a real degree. In four years, if you still want to be a lawyer, then start thinking about the career prospects.

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thexfactor
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Re: Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

Postby thexfactor » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:08 pm

do accounting instead of poly sci. Accounting might actually get you a job......
Pay careful attention to your GPA. Take the lsats and hope for the best.

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Moxie
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Re: Will the legal job market improve in the next 7 years or so?

Postby Moxie » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:46 pm

GTFO and enjoy college. The high school kids that come on here are the same gunners everyone hates in their LS class.

On a more serious note - focus on your classes, nobody here is going to have ANY idea what the job market will be like in 7 years.




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