Let's talk about Atlanta!

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FantasticMrFox
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby FantasticMrFox » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:56 pm

It's hot
(a subtle tag)

theduder
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby theduder » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:04 am

tag

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Grizz
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby Grizz » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:13 am

f0bolous wrote:
rad law wrote:
f0bolous wrote:Does anyone know what the GPA cutoff is typically for these firms? I'm guessing UT would be similar to Vandy as far as these cutoff #s are concerned?


I'd think so, but I don't have them right now haha.


eek...i just hope the cutoffs posted on the semjf symplicity (where every firm basically was T10%+LR) don't hold true for every school


Then again, we go to Texas and Vandy, so hopefully we'll be treated better? I dunno. See you there though.

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PDaddy
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby PDaddy » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:39 am

Much ado about nothing. "One man's trash is another man's treasure; one man's hell is another man's pleasure"...doesn't it go something like that? I wouldn't trust word of mouth too much, because what doesn't work for one man might work like a MF for another.

Can anyone afford to be that choosy right now? We would all be lucky just to get jobs after law school. I spoke with a prominent federal judge in Seattle today (Hon. Richard Jones...Quincy Jones's brother). He told me that the trend is going towards requiring more and more practical experience from law clerks, regardless of school, skills or resume. This is because the dockets are getting fuller and the courts can't keep up. When judges get certain cases, they need clerks who have certain expertise, so they can get up-to-speed faster, do better research and write better orders. California's federal courts have sent several hundred cases to the Washington federal courts because of "case overload", and that's not unique. He also told me that lawyers are still mostly lousy writers, and that success depends on writing ability as much or more than any other. Thus, if you have a hard time even getting the firm jobs, getting clerkships will be even harder. In other words, anyone working as a lawyer of any type in this economy is a lucky summumabitch.

Concentrate of getting your foundation. Learn to write well! Get your experience, and worry about the rest later.

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Grizz
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby Grizz » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:41 am

What about those of us who are doing OCI in two months, herp derpington.

de5igual
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby de5igual » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:46 am

rad law wrote:
f0bolous wrote:
rad law wrote:
f0bolous wrote:Does anyone know what the GPA cutoff is typically for these firms? I'm guessing UT would be similar to Vandy as far as these cutoff #s are concerned?


I'd think so, but I don't have them right now haha.


eek...i just hope the cutoffs posted on the semjf symplicity (where every firm basically was T10%+LR) don't hold true for every school


Then again, we go to Texas and Vandy, so hopefully we'll be treated better? I dunno. See you there though.


hope so man...

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jeeptiger09
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby jeeptiger09 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:32 am

do you all have any idea how many people register/bid on firms for SEMJF? I know there are quite a few schools listed but also a decent number of firms listed.

and I'm also hoping for a little flexibility on top 10/journal preference from some v100s.

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Grizz
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby Grizz » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:35 am

My grades went up substantially AFTER I submitted my SEMJF resume. Lame.

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Pricer
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby Pricer » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:52 am

rad law wrote:
f0bolous wrote:
rad law wrote:
f0bolous wrote:Does anyone know what the GPA cutoff is typically for these firms? I'm guessing UT would be similar to Vandy as far as these cutoff #s are concerned?


I'd think so, but I don't have them right now haha.


eek...i just hope the cutoffs posted on the semjf symplicity (where every firm basically was T10%+LR) don't hold true for every school


Then again, we go to Texas and Vandy, so hopefully we'll be treated better? I dunno. See you there though.



I am going to UT next year. Any thoughts on the possibility of getting a job at Austin A+B and transferring into Atlanta later? I am from Georgia, and my ultimate goal is to return to work in Atlanta in a few years. I would like to work in Texas for a little while after graduation, though. I know that my ties to the SE (Georgia in particular) will allow me some portability between there and Texas, but would I be better off trying to come straight back to Atlanta (2L SA position, begin first year there) or attempting to do biglaw in Houston/Dallas/Austin (I only include Austin because of A+B) and transferring to Atlanta later? Would transferring between offices be the way to go, or would it be easier to switch firms entirely when the move is made?

HawksJetsFalcons
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby HawksJetsFalcons » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:00 am

Tagged

nickwar
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby nickwar » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:07 am

FantasticMrFox wrote:It's hot
(a subtle tag)



9 straight days of 90+ degree heat. This is getting ridiculous. Thank God I work in a government building where they love to pump that A/C.

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memphisbelle
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby memphisbelle » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:39 am

Does anyone know anything about/have experience with Ford and Harrison? They do labor and employment/aviation law if I am not mistaken.

de5igual
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby de5igual » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:20 pm

Pricer wrote:I am going to UT next year. Any thoughts on the possibility of getting a job at Austin A+B and transferring into Atlanta later? I am from Georgia, and my ultimate goal is to return to work in Atlanta in a few years. I would like to work in Texas for a little while after graduation, though. I know that my ties to the SE (Georgia in particular) will allow me some portability between there and Texas, but would I be better off trying to come straight back to Atlanta (2L SA position, begin first year there) or attempting to do biglaw in Houston/Dallas/Austin (I only include Austin because of A+B) and transferring to Atlanta later? Would transferring between offices be the way to go, or would it be easier to switch firms entirely when the move is made?


just based on anecdotal evidence, but austin biglaw is notoriously hard to get (as in the only people who have a chance are T10%+LR...basically those that could have transferred to HYS). also, what do you mean by "better off"? if you mean easier, then applying directly to atlanta if you ultimately want to end up there is probably the easiest way. if you mean getting more experience in texas related industries, then sure, work a few years in dallas or houston, and hope for a spot to open up in atlanta and try to lateral in.

Omerta
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby Omerta » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:22 pm

memphisbelle wrote:Does anyone know anything about/have experience with Ford and Harrison? They do labor and employment/aviation law if I am not mistaken.

F+H has a very unique billing system. They don't bill out first years. After that, you basically work "by the hour" so your salary has a pretty large range depending on how much you bill. For example, at K&S you're billing 2200-2400 and get paid 135k (maybe bonuses); at F+H you receive some flat amount per billable hour and I think there are incentives as you go up in hours.

Their primary practice area is in labor and employment. It's a mid-sized firm that has been growing pretty rapidly. To me at least, it's one of the firms that typifies the future of the legal market; specialized in a few practice areas as opposed to a massive general service shop. Not very grade selective.

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memphisbelle
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby memphisbelle » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:30 pm

Thanks Omerta! :)

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Pricer
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby Pricer » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:34 pm

f0bolous wrote:
Pricer wrote:I am going to UT next year. Any thoughts on the possibility of getting a job at Austin A+B and transferring into Atlanta later? I am from Georgia, and my ultimate goal is to return to work in Atlanta in a few years. I would like to work in Texas for a little while after graduation, though. I know that my ties to the SE (Georgia in particular) will allow me some portability between there and Texas, but would I be better off trying to come straight back to Atlanta (2L SA position, begin first year there) or attempting to do biglaw in Houston/Dallas/Austin (I only include Austin because of A+B) and transferring to Atlanta later? Would transferring between offices be the way to go, or would it be easier to switch firms entirely when the move is made?


just based on anecdotal evidence, but austin biglaw is notoriously hard to get (as in the only people who have a chance are T10%+LR...basically those that could have transferred to HYS). also, what do you mean by "better off"? if you mean easier, then applying directly to atlanta if you ultimately want to end up there is probably the easiest way. if you mean getting more experience in texas related industries, then sure, work a few years in dallas or houston, and hope for a spot to open up in atlanta and try to lateral in.


Yeah, I am not counting on Austin biglaw by any means, I just know there are a few large firms there. If I work in Texas, I pretty much know it will be Houston or Dallas, if I even make the biglaw cut. I am perfectly fine with that, especially for the first 5-10 years. I'm just thinking I'd like to eventually make my way back to Atlanta as my parents get older.

Omerta
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby Omerta » Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:50 pm

Top 5% (#15-20) at Emory (journal status unknown), any firms to scratch off the list? I'm particularly interested in K&S, A&B, Rogers and Hardin, and Sutherland.
Anonymous User wrote:
Omerta wrote:Top 5% (#15-20) at Emory (journal status unknown), any firms to scratch off the list? I'm particularly interested in K&S, A&B, Rogers and Hardin, and Sutherland.

With top 5% you should not have to strike any of those firms based on grades alone.
Journal will give you a boost. So will a good interview and a demonstrated interest/connection to Atlanta, but you're competitive for just about any Atlanta firm. HTH.
-SA at one of the above

If you're comfortable with doing so, please pm me.
Last edited by Omerta on Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:17 pm

Omerta wrote:Top 5% (#15-20) at Emory (journal status unknown), any firms to scratch off the list? I'm particularly interested in K&S, A&B, Rogers and Hardin, and Sutherland.

With top 5% you should not have to strike any of those firms based on grades alone.
Journal will give you a boost. So will a good interview and a demonstrated interest/connection to Atlanta, but you're competitive for just about any Atlanta firm. HTH.
-SA at one of the above

Anonymous User
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:11 pm

Omerta wrote:If you're comfortable with doing so, please pm me.
Would rather not, but I'll answer questions in this thread.

Anonymous User
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:21 pm

As a top 1/3 Vanderbilt student, interested in litigation, what firms are good reaches and targets?

Omerta
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby Omerta » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Omerta wrote:If you're comfortable with doing so, please pm me.
Would rather not, but I'll answer questions in this thread.


That's perfectly fine too--I appreciate any thoughts you have. I'll ask the standard slate of questions, then get particular. Did you get grilled about Atlanta ties? Were most of your interviews pretty standard stuff? Things you wish you knew before you started OCI? When firms asked you if you had any questions for them, what did you ask about?

For you particularly. I don't know if you had this problem, but were you asked about what other firms you were looking at? With small firms like R&H, did you have to harmonize why you were also looking at larger firms like KS or JD? Which Atlanta firms did your friends enjoy working for?

Anonymous User
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:54 am

Bump for EIP/EIW/OGI/OCI season. More advice about firms' reputations is wanted! As far as I know, K&S has the "sweatshop" reputation, but I know little beyond that. (Is that reputation in comparison to other Atlanta firms, i.e. it is still much less rigorous than NYC or other major-market biglaw? Or does it reach those levels?)

What about others? A&B? Sutherland? Kilpatrick? Troutman?
What about satellite ATL offices? Jones Day? Paul Hastings? Hunton & Williams? Holland & Knight? PoGo?
What about the mid-market firms like McKenna, SGR, etc?
What about smaller firms like AGG, Rogers & Hardin, Bondurant, etc?

And and all info is appreciated for those of us looking at potential ATL interviews...

Anonymous User
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:30 am

Your question is pretty broad/vague so not sure how much of a reply you're going to get. But here are some thoughts:
- K&S: Yes, it has a reputation as being a sweatshop, at minimum as compared to other Atlanta firms. I don't know about as compared to NYC/other biglaw. But it's the sweatiest rep here in ATL. A friend told me his interviewer said something to the effect of "Come and work here for 2 years, and you can go anywhere else you want." He was looking to go to a firm where he'd WANT to stay for longer than that, so this was a negative to my friend... Also, their summer class in ATL was only like 7-9 this year, 2 smaller than last year, while pretty much everyone else was larger (A&B almost doubled)
- A&B is probably just as sweaty but for whatever reason has less of a reputation for being that way. Maybe they just keep it in the family a little better... Biz seems to be doing well since they nearly doubled the summer class size. Or they're just trying to make it look like they're awesome, which is entirely possible.
- Kilpatrick, as a personal opinion, seems to have a very work hard-party hard attitude. If you're young and like to party (and bill a crap-load), that's a good place. If you do IP, it would be a GREAT place.
- Troutman used to have a more touchy-feely rep, a little softer than the other biggies, than it does now. Lots of layoffs and a couple mergers have changed the culture according to my friends who worked there.
- Of your "satellite" firms, I don't know much, except that I've heard that Paul Hastings is as much of a sweatshop as K&S. "PoGo" no longer exists because it was acquired by Bryan Cave before it was (probably) going to collapse. Prior to that, I'd heard the words "toxic," and "stay away" from multiple people. But I had soem friends interview their last two OCI seasons, and they all seemed to like it.
- McKenna & SGR *are* still on the NLJ 250, so not sureif they're "mid-market" or not... AGG is just off the cusp of that, so I'd put that firm closer to your "mid-market" category than Rogers/Bondurant. Everyone I've ever met at McKenna has seems super-sharp and super-nice. I like the idea of their personality test for summers because I think it reflects on the strong desire to find people who really fit their culture & will work well at the firm. Says to me they're committed to the long term, not just an hours-machine.
- AGG has a reputation as a "lifestyle" firm, at least among the people I talked to. One AGG associate told me "We could bill 2400 hours like the K&S people do, but people come here because they don't *want* to." I know another associate there who turned down K&S, even after doing 1L and splitting 2L summer at K&S—so only about 1/3 of the exposure to AGG—because the associate liked the culture better and liked (gasp!) the idea of working with small and medium sized businesses rather than being a little cog on a matter for a giant corp.
- Bondurant's rep is that it is the elite litigation boutique in Georgia. Only like 30+ lawyers, but "pretty much everyone graduated 1 or 2 in their class" (quote from an associate during interview). They encourage splitting with a big firm, and have their summer program later knowing that the biglaws will want you to do first half with them. They want you to (1) make the $$ and (2) pick them. And since they're so small, they don't mind if you don't. I interned with a judge and one of the clerks said about half the time she reads a really good brief (a rare occurrence, sadly), it was from Bondurant. I wish I'd gotten a call back... :)

Anything else, you gotta be more specific. P.S., just to avoid getting flak from the moderators for posting anonymously, I want to say I did so b/c talking smack about firm reputations when you're gonna work here in this Atlanta legal community is *perfect* reason to be anon. The Atlanta legal community is "small" in the sense that it will surprise you how quickly you get to know people everywhere, and how everyone seems to know everyone or be connected. That is especially true within a specialty/practice type.

tipler4213
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby tipler4213 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:35 am

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Atlanta has 25 firm offices that have 61 or more attorneys.

Make sure to apply to the top 10 firm offices by size, as they probably would take the most summer associates (ranked in 2009):
Alston & Bird
King & Spalding
Troutman Sanders
Kilpatrick Stockton
Sutherland, Asbill & Brennan
McKenna Long & Aldridge
Jones Day
Morris, Manning & Martin
Smith, Gambrell & Russell
Arnall Golden Gregory (tie)
Bryan Cave (tie)


Very useful!

Anonymous User
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Re: Let's talk about Atlanta!

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:41 am

Anonymous User wrote:Your question is pretty broad/vague so not sure how much of a reply you're going to get. But here are some thoughts:<snip>

Anything else, you gotta be more specific. P.S., just to avoid getting flak from the moderators for posting anonymously, I want to say I did so b/c talking smack about firm reputations when you're gonna work here in this Atlanta legal community is *perfect* reason to be anon. The Atlanta legal community is "small" in the sense that it will surprise you how quickly you get to know people everywhere, and how everyone seems to know everyone or be connected. That is especially true within a specialty/practice type.
Awesome info, thanks a ton. And I hope the last part (quoted) was obvious to mods -- discussing firms' reps with candor requires Anon status!

I'm hoping to score interviews with most of the ATL firms from my outside-the-region school (hence anon). Do you think the local all stars from Emory/UGA/GSU/etc have a leg up on "outsiders?" ATL is pretty provincial from what I understand...

I take it you're an Atlanta associate. Do you work in corporate or lit? I'm wondering if going into a corporate practice in ATL is a good idea, when everyone always talks about the "best" corporate work being in NYC. Do you think it's possible to do Corporate for a few years at a big firm, then lateral to a smaller firm and make partner when your time is due, or to a nice in-house gig? I just wonder if there's enough corporate work to go around and if it's of sufficient "quality" to set up those kind of exit opportunities, or if you're better off going to NYC for those first years?

This has been asked before but never particularly in reference to Atlanta. Do you think splitting your 2L summer there is a wise idea? The offer rates in ATL are lower than places like NYC where an offer is almost automatic. Do you think splitting between 2 firms with 75% offer rates or so increases your chances of getting an offer, or do you think the splitters are the first on the chopping block when they have to cull 3-5 from the summer SA class?




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