Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

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vamedic03
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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby vamedic03 » Sat May 28, 2011 1:46 pm

If OP doesn't know what he wants to do, then why have such a limited list?

What about?

Gibson DC, Sidley DC, Kirkland DC, Covington, WilmerHale, etc?

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RVP11
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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby RVP11 » Sat May 28, 2011 1:47 pm

Also, why no Simpson, Debevoise, Paul Weiss?

OP's list makes no sense. I'm beginning to suspect flame.

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Moxie
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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby Moxie » Sat May 28, 2011 1:54 pm

RVP11 wrote:Also, why no Simpson, Debevoise, Paul Weiss?

OP's list makes no sense. I'm beginning to suspect flame.


I got the sense he just focused entirely on prestige/Vault rankings.

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rayiner
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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby rayiner » Sat May 28, 2011 1:58 pm

vamedic03 wrote:If OP doesn't know what he wants to do, then why have such a limited list?

What about?

Gibson DC, Sidley DC, Kirkland DC, Covington, WilmerHale, etc?


Absolutely. If OP is serious about wanting to do litigation, and is willing to consider DC and California (as evidenced by inclusion of Munger and W&C) then Covington, WilmerHale, Gibson DC/LA, Kirkland and Sidley DC should absolutely be on the list. OP is absolutely not too good for these firms. At least Covington, Wilmer, and Kirkland DC (I don't know much about Gibson) are targets with OP's grades, while W&C and Susman are substantial reaches.

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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby NarwhalPunter » Sat May 28, 2011 2:05 pm

Judging from OP's other posts, I find it very surprising that the idea of billing 2500-2800 hours a year at a place like Cravath is at all appealing.

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swc65
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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby swc65 » Sat May 28, 2011 2:05 pm

RVP11 wrote:Also, why no Simpson, Debevoise, Paul Weiss?

OP's list makes no sense. I'm beginning to suspect flame taking any opportunity to brag about grades.



:lol:

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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby 2LLLL » Sat May 28, 2011 2:28 pm

Other posters have covered why you want more than 8 interviews pretty sufficiently, but I'll add one more reason:

OCI is much more random than you would think. You have no idea what arbitrary factor your screening interviewer is going to latch onto to decide to recommend you for a callback. You could be prejudiced by your interview time slot (first thing in the morning, end of the day, immediately before/after lunch when the interviewer is hungry/in a food coma). You don't know what the interviewer's mood is going to be like (i.e. just got an angry e-mail or long assignment from a partner right before you came in, is sick that day, etc...). You don't know how you're going to feel the day of the interview- you could not feel well, or be late for whatever unlucky reason.

Why unnecessarily limit yourself? Your school/grades put you in a good position, but OCI does to some extent depend on the stars aligning for you. Limiting yourself to 8 firms- 4 of which (Wachtell, Susman, W&C, MTO) are among the most selective out there- seems like a great way to risk becoming next year's cautionary tale of a top 5% student at CLS who struck out.

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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat May 28, 2011 2:34 pm

rayiner wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:If OP doesn't know what he wants to do, then why have such a limited list?

What about?

Gibson DC, Sidley DC, Kirkland DC, Covington, WilmerHale, etc?


Absolutely. If OP is serious about wanting to do litigation, and is willing to consider DC and California (as evidenced by inclusion of Munger and W&C) then Covington, WilmerHale, Gibson DC/LA, Kirkland and Sidley DC should absolutely be on the list. OP is absolutely not too good for these firms. At least Covington, Wilmer, and Kirkland DC (I don't know much about Gibson) are targets with OP's grades, while W&C and Susman are substantial reaches.


Top 5% at CLS is not good enough for W&C or Susman? Wow.

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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby liLtuneChi » Sat May 28, 2011 2:43 pm

RVP11 wrote:Also, why no Simpson, Debevoise, Paul Weiss?

OP's list makes no sense. I'm beginning to suspect flame.


I've heard bad things about Simpson from a reliable source and don't care too much about the other 2 firms.

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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby liLtuneChi » Sat May 28, 2011 2:45 pm

Moxie wrote:
RVP11 wrote:Also, why no Simpson, Debevoise, Paul Weiss?

OP's list makes no sense. I'm beginning to suspect flame.


I got the sense he just focused entirely on prestige/Vault rankings.


partially

but then again its there merit to prestige?

If I want to be the best why not practice at the best law firm?

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vamedic03
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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby vamedic03 » Sat May 28, 2011 2:47 pm

liLtuneChi wrote:
Moxie wrote:
RVP11 wrote:Also, why no Simpson, Debevoise, Paul Weiss?

OP's list makes no sense. I'm beginning to suspect flame.


I got the sense he just focused entirely on prestige/Vault rankings.


partially

but then again its there merit to prestige?

If I want to be the best why not practice at the best law firm?


Because there is no single best law firm. Firms are better in some practice areas than in others.

And, OP's list didn't even come close to hitting all the major prestigious firms.

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rayiner
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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby rayiner » Sat May 28, 2011 2:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
rayiner wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:If OP doesn't know what he wants to do, then why have such a limited list?

What about?

Gibson DC, Sidley DC, Kirkland DC, Covington, WilmerHale, etc?


Absolutely. If OP is serious about wanting to do litigation, and is willing to consider DC and California (as evidenced by inclusion of Munger and W&C) then Covington, WilmerHale, Gibson DC/LA, Kirkland and Sidley DC should absolutely be on the list. OP is absolutely not too good for these firms. At least Covington, Wilmer, and Kirkland DC (I don't know much about Gibson) are targets with OP's grades, while W&C and Susman are substantial reaches.


Top 5% at CLS is not good enough for W&C or Susman? Wow.


I didn't say W&C or Susman were impossible, I said they were reaches. Susman is insanely grade selective. Every associate at their NY office had a 2nd Circuit clerkship. W&C is a bit less grade selective, but extremely personality selective.

For the hyper-selective litigation boutiques, the only people who can consider them targets are those in the top 5-10 people at T14s (CCN doesn't seem to carry particular weight) who are on track to get a competitive COA clerkship. Once you're outside that range you can still get hired (lots of people who aren't top 1-2% get hired at W&C), but grades alone won't get you there. They'll have to like you for some other reason and at that point you can't say the firm is a "target" anymore.

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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat May 28, 2011 3:11 pm

rayiner wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
rayiner wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:If OP doesn't know what he wants to do, then why have such a limited list?

What about?

Gibson DC, Sidley DC, Kirkland DC, Covington, WilmerHale, etc?


Absolutely. If OP is serious about wanting to do litigation, and is willing to consider DC and California (as evidenced by inclusion of Munger and W&C) then Covington, WilmerHale, Gibson DC/LA, Kirkland and Sidley DC should absolutely be on the list. OP is absolutely not too good for these firms. At least Covington, Wilmer, and Kirkland DC (I don't know much about Gibson) are targets with OP's grades, while W&C and Susman are substantial reaches.


Top 5% at CLS is not good enough for W&C or Susman? Wow.


I didn't say W&C or Susman were impossible, I said they were reaches. Susman is insanely grade selective. Every associate at their NY office had a 2nd Circuit clerkship. W&C is a bit less grade selective, but extremely personality selective.

For the hyper-selective litigation boutiques, the only people who can consider them targets are those in the top 5-10 people at T14s (CCN doesn't seem to carry particular weight) who are on track to get a competitive COA clerkship. Once you're outside that range you can still get hired (lots of people who aren't top 1-2% get hired at W&C), but grades alone won't get you there. They'll have to like you for some other reason and at that point you can't say the firm is a "target" anymore.


I know a guy at H who's going to W&C. He came off as an arrogant douche. Typical W&C personality?

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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby liLtuneChi » Sat May 28, 2011 3:14 pm

vamedic03 wrote:
liLtuneChi wrote:
Moxie wrote:
RVP11 wrote:Also, why no Simpson, Debevoise, Paul Weiss?

OP's list makes no sense. I'm beginning to suspect flame.


I got the sense he just focused entirely on prestige/Vault rankings.


partially

but then again its there merit to prestige?

If I want to be the best why not practice at the best law firm?


Because there is no single best law firm. Firms are better in some practice areas than in others.

And, OP's list didn't even come close to hitting all the major prestigious firms.


what firms did I miss?

liLtuneChi
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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby liLtuneChi » Sat May 28, 2011 3:24 pm

rayiner wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
rayiner wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:If OP doesn't know what he wants to do, then why have such a limited list?

What about?

Gibson DC, Sidley DC, Kirkland DC, Covington, WilmerHale, etc?


Absolutely. If OP is serious about wanting to do litigation, and is willing to consider DC and California (as evidenced by inclusion of Munger and W&C) then Covington, WilmerHale, Gibson DC/LA, Kirkland and Sidley DC should absolutely be on the list. OP is absolutely not too good for these firms. At least Covington, Wilmer, and Kirkland DC (I don't know much about Gibson) are targets with OP's grades, while W&C and Susman are substantial reaches.


Top 5% at CLS is not good enough for W&C or Susman? Wow.


I didn't say W&C or Susman were impossible, I said they were reaches. Susman is insanely grade selective. Every associate at their NY office had a 2nd Circuit clerkship. W&C is a bit less grade selective, but extremely personality selective.

For the hyper-selective litigation boutiques, the only people who can consider them targets are those in the top 5-10 people at T14s (CCN doesn't seem to carry particular weight) who are on track to get a competitive COA clerkship. Once you're outside that range you can still get hired (lots of people who aren't top 1-2% get hired at W&C), but grades alone won't get you there. They'll have to like you for some other reason and at that point you can't say the firm is a "target" anymore.


what type of personality is W&C looking for?

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rayiner
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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby rayiner » Sat May 28, 2011 3:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
rayiner wrote:I didn't say W&C or Susman were impossible, I said they were reaches. Susman is insanely grade selective. Every associate at their NY office had a 2nd Circuit clerkship. W&C is a bit less grade selective, but extremely personality selective.

For the hyper-selective litigation boutiques, the only people who can consider them targets are those in the top 5-10 people at T14s (CCN doesn't seem to carry particular weight) who are on track to get a competitive COA clerkship. Once you're outside that range you can still get hired (lots of people who aren't top 1-2% get hired at W&C), but grades alone won't get you there. They'll have to like you for some other reason and at that point you can't say the firm is a "target" anymore.


I know a guy at H who's going to W&C. He came off as an arrogant douche. Typical W&C personality?


"Arrogant douche" is a common subtype among litigation folks.

Seriously though, when I say "personality" I don't mean in the sense of "douchey" or "gunnery" or "laid-back." I mean more whether you can show that you live and breathe litigation while being hyper intellectual and also jacking off the W&C website.

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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby RVP11 » Sat May 28, 2011 3:36 pm

liLtuneChi wrote:
RVP11 wrote:Also, why no Simpson, Debevoise, Paul Weiss?

OP's list makes no sense. I'm beginning to suspect flame.


I've heard bad things about Simpson from a reliable source and don't care too much about the other 2 firms.


There are bad things, reported by reliable sources, about every BigLaw firm.

Again, I'm calling flame. Your bidding choices are not logical. Litigation or corporate? New York or DC or California? Are you a prestige whore or not? Your bidding choices suggest you are a prestige whore who doesn't care about practice area or location, but then if that's the case you are missing a ton of firms that are similarly prestigious.

In conclusion: flame.

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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby liLtuneChi » Sat May 28, 2011 3:42 pm

RVP11 wrote:
liLtuneChi wrote:
RVP11 wrote:Also, why no Simpson, Debevoise, Paul Weiss?

OP's list makes no sense. I'm beginning to suspect flame.


I've heard bad things about Simpson from a reliable source and don't care too much about the other 2 firms.


There are bad things, reported by reliable sources, about every BigLaw firm.

Again, I'm calling flame. Your bidding choices are not logical. Litigation or corporate? New York or DC or California? Are you a prestige whore or not? (If so, then you're missing a lot of top firms.)


you idiot I've already explained this

I'm leaning toward lit but open to corporate. I'm at a firm this summer so I'll experiment with both and probably change my list later this summer if I absolutely can't stand corporate.

I don't care where I work. I'm open to NY, DC, or LA. I just want to work at the best law firm for my interests. My list includes both top lit and corp firms because right now my interests include both lit and corp.

From what I've heard the top litigation shops are W&C and Susman. And the top corporate shops are Wachtell, Cravath, and S&C. I also included Davis Polk and Cleary because I have friends who have said good things about them. I didn't include firms like Simpson cause a friend said some bad things about them.

Comprende?

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RVP11
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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby RVP11 » Sat May 28, 2011 3:45 pm

liLtuneChi wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
liLtuneChi wrote:
RVP11 wrote:Also, why no Simpson, Debevoise, Paul Weiss?

OP's list makes no sense. I'm beginning to suspect flame.


I've heard bad things about Simpson from a reliable source and don't care too much about the other 2 firms.


There are bad things, reported by reliable sources, about every BigLaw firm.

Again, I'm calling flame. Your bidding choices are not logical. Litigation or corporate? New York or DC or California? Are you a prestige whore or not? (If so, then you're missing a lot of top firms.)


you idiot I've already explained this

I also included Davis Polk and Cleary because I have friends who have said good things about them. I didn't include firms like Simpson cause a friend said some bad things about them.

Comprende?


Yeah, you're the one considering bidding on only 8 firms at OCI...but I'm the idiot.

The bolded above proves you not only have no idea what you're doing but also don't really deserve our help. Why not let your friends make your bid list for you?

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rayiner
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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby rayiner » Sat May 28, 2011 3:49 pm

liLtuneChi wrote:what firms did I miss?


The DC office of a ton of firms. Covington, WilmerHale, Gibson DC, Kirkland DC, Sidley DC. Those firms are extremely difficult to get because they hire relatively few people and are swamped with apps from HYS critters. In NY you forgot Quinn, and in Cali you forgot Irell and Gibson.

Also, you don't just to "lit" or "corp". If you want M&A and don't get Wachtell, Skadden should be on the radar. If you want capital markets, DPW is probably one of your best choices. Within a certain bracket, it matters less what firm you're at than what practice you're in.
Last edited by rayiner on Sat May 28, 2011 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sat May 28, 2011 3:54 pm

HIJACK ATTEMPT:

Since this thread is now chock-full of knowledgeable TLS'ers--thoughts on best firms in Texas for lit? Are different cities for firms known for different focuses?

Edit: Also, is the top of bigtex (V&E/Fulbright/BB) better than more national firms with Dallas/Houston offices for a person planning on staying in Texas long term?

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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby TaipeiMort » Sat May 28, 2011 4:04 pm

OP, I would seriously watch out at OCI. Every year at CC and Harvard V25 firm hiring partners are on the look out for aspie and abrasive jerks to not call back in the top 5 percent. Basically, their job with top 5 percenters is to find a chink in their armor, because their grades already justify a CB. Every year there are some LR grade ons at these schools who get no or almost no offers.

Based upon the insecure and abrasive comments you've made, and the questionable judgement you displayed in setting up an essential ode-to-yourself thread on TLS, I give you a good chance of getting no offered unless you 1) humble yourself and get a good friend/significant other to help you work your personality flaws and esteem issues out, or 2) bid on some lower-ranked firms.

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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat May 28, 2011 4:31 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:OP, I would seriously watch out at OCI. Every year at CC and Harvard V25 firm hiring partners are on the look out for aspie and abrasive jerks to not call back in the top 5 percent. Basically, their job with top 5 percenters is to find a chink in their armor, because their grades already justify a CB. Every year there are some LR grade ons at these schools who get no or almost no offers.

Based upon the insecure and abrasive comments you've made, and the questionable judgement you displayed in setting up an essential ode-to-yourself thread on TLS, I give you a good chance of getting no offered unless you 1) humble yourself and get a good friend/significant other to help you work your personality flaws and esteem issues out, or 2) bid on some lower-ranked firms.


+1, +2, and +3

I don't think I've ever seen such a self-conceited post history on TLS

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EijiMiyake
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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby EijiMiyake » Sat May 28, 2011 4:38 pm

ITT: law students show that they are unable to speak without puffing themselves up, or tearing others down.

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Re: Would I be stupid to bid on only 8 firms during OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat May 28, 2011 4:40 pm

This makes no sense. I was in a better position last year(comparable school, better grades). I did 20 screening interviews. I got 18 call backs. After my first offer I canceled all but 6 of my callbacks. I got 3 offers from those. 2 of the callbacks that didn't result in offers were far lower ranked than the 3 I got offers from(you can't predict these things). Fortunately one of my offers was my top choice and I'm very happy, but why on earth limit yourself? I learned far more from the callbacks about the firms that I could from hearing people talk/reading stuff and it was incredibly valuable in making my final decision. Are you really driven enough to do that well at CLS but too lazy to do screening interviews....




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