Jump to Wall St. or Consulting Firm?

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Anonymous User
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Jump to Wall St. or Consulting Firm?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 26, 2011 10:44 am

I am a rising 2L at a T14 with medium grades. I really hate law. I like numbers more than words, and I like to bullshit (consulting) and gamble (Wall St.). I have a solid math background and a good personality. I should have got an MBA, but it's too late now, since I don't want to stay for one extra year. Anyone has any experience/advice regarding getting a consulting or Wall St. (as a trader, for example) job straight with a JD? I might still pass the bar two years from now, just to complete my legal journey.

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bgdddymtty
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Re: Jump to Wall St. or Consulting Firm?

Postby bgdddymtty » Thu May 26, 2011 10:58 am

Wall Street-type firms are looking for brilliant, driven people who are good with numbers. I got one of those jobs with an MBA, but most of my colleagues had only undergrad degrees, in fields ranging from physics to accounting to international relations. You can certainly get one of those jobs with a JD. I know, for example, that Goldman had a listing on UVa's Career Services website this year looking for summer associates.

Many consulting firms have a specific track for JD's. If you want to PM me, I have a friend at BCG that has offered me some info on that option, and I'd be happy to get it and forward it to you.

Anonymous User
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Re: Jump to Wall St. or Consulting Firm?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 26, 2011 6:02 pm

bgdddymtty wrote:Wall Street-type firms are looking for brilliant, driven people who are good with numbers. I got one of those jobs with an MBA, but most of my colleagues had only undergrad degrees, in fields ranging from physics to accounting to international relations. You can certainly get one of those jobs with a JD. I know, for example, that Goldman had a listing on UVa's Career Services website this year looking for summer associates.

Many consulting firms have a specific track for JD's. If you want to PM me, I have a friend at BCG that has offered me some info on that option, and I'd be happy to get it and forward it to you.


PMed.

2LLLL
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Re: Jump to Wall St. or Consulting Firm?

Postby 2LLLL » Thu May 26, 2011 9:30 pm

From what I've heard these jobs are exceedingly difficult to get as a law student, and typically require relevant pre-law school work experience. Considering your median grades, and the fact that you identified your school as a T-14 (as opposed to HYS, or CCN, or even MVP), I'd say that your chances are slim to none.

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Sentry
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Re: Jump to Wall St. or Consulting Firm?

Postby Sentry » Thu May 26, 2011 10:29 pm

Voyager is a good poster who got into consulting. Maybe send him a PM?

Voyager
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Re: Jump to Wall St. or Consulting Firm?

Postby Voyager » Fri May 27, 2011 11:33 am

Happy to answer questions. I have posted about this before. I went CLS-->MMB.

Here are my initial thoughts:

The interviews are 3-4 hours long. You do 3 rounds of them. Each interview involves multiple case studies (basically, analyzing a business and trying to solve a business problem... it also involves lots of math) and resume questions.

I prepped VERY hard for those interviews and could probably write another prep guide...

In a nutshell: (1) Buy Case In Point. Read it. Learn the lingo/concepts. Note that the book wants you to memorize 14 frameworks each of which has 20 or more factors to memorize. Recognize that this is impossible. So...

(2) Check out: http://www.caseinterview.com/ That site was a god send. Victor Chen is a Stanford Business Alum and a former McKinsey consultant. He teaches FOUR frameworks to memorize. You can do that. Do it.

(3) TONS of problems. TONS.


ALSO, you need to get very good at math. You will solving moderately tricky math work problems on the fly, in front of the interviewer under timed conditions. If the kids who did "Mathletes" in high school had their version of Top Gun, this would be it.

CREDENTIALS: (1) They are looking for people from the very top law schools. They don't care very much about greades.
(2) While they don't require a specific background it is VERY helpful to have work experiences in which you had some responsibility. It makes your resume question answers MUCH stronger.

We are way short on people right now and are in a big hiring kick. I can go much more in depth into the interviewing process, the job itself, whatever you like.

There are a bunch of lawyers working here with me. Almost all are HArvard.

lola_wants
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Re: Jump to Wall St. or Consulting Firm?

Postby lola_wants » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:13 pm

Voyager, if you're still reading, out of curiosity: Is this a feasible career path for folks outside of HYSCN? Do you have a sense of whether undergrad prestige matters or just law school prestige? I'm sure there's not nearly enough data to figure this out, but would a transfer to a top-ish school be competitive, depending on where they came from? And finally, if you miss the consulting boat while in law school, are there strategies to move into the industry, short of going back to b-school?

Some of this isn't relevant to me, but I think it'd be helpful for folks to know the parameters of MBB hiring in law schools. Thanks for your help!

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Verity
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Re: Jump to Wall St. or Consulting Firm?

Postby Verity » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I like numbers more than words, and I like to bullshit (consulting) and gamble (Wall St.). I have a solid math background and a good personality. I should have got an MBA, but it's too late now, since I don't want to stay for one extra year. Anyone has any experience/advice regarding getting a consulting or Wall St. (as a trader, for example) job straight with a JD? I might still pass the bar two years from now, just to complete my legal journey.


First, consulting is no bullshit, and gambling on Wall St. is suicide. This just sounds like an expensive and misguided plan, with no good assurances. You should drop out and pursue an MBA or PhD.

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thecilent
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Re: Jump to Wall St. or Consulting Firm?

Postby thecilent » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:26 pm

Voyager wrote:Happy to answer questions. I have posted about this before. I went CLS-->MMB.

Here are my initial thoughts:

The interviews are 3-4 hours long. You do 3 rounds of them. Each interview involves multiple case studies (basically, analyzing a business and trying to solve a business problem... it also involves lots of math) and resume questions.

I prepped VERY hard for those interviews and could probably write another prep guide...

In a nutshell: (1) Buy Case In Point. Read it. Learn the lingo/concepts. Note that the book wants you to memorize 14 frameworks each of which has 20 or more factors to memorize. Recognize that this is impossible. So...

(2) Check out: http://www.caseinterview.com/ That site was a god send. Victor Chen is a Stanford Business Alum and a former McKinsey consultant. He teaches FOUR frameworks to memorize. You can do that. Do it.

(3) TONS of problems. TONS.


ALSO, you need to get very good at math. You will solving moderately tricky math work problems on the fly, in front of the interviewer under timed conditions. If the kids who did "Mathletes" in high school had their version of Top Gun, this would be it.

CREDENTIALS: (1) They are looking for people from the very top law schools. They don't care very much about greades.
(2) While they don't require a specific background it is VERY helpful to have work experiences in which you had some responsibility. It makes your resume question answers MUCH stronger.

We are way short on people right now and are in a big hiring kick. I can go much more in depth into the interviewing process, the job itself, whatever you like.

There are a bunch of lawyers working here with me. Almost all are HArvard.

What is the job itself actually like? And are you and the other jds doing anything differently or on any kinda different path than non-jd peeps?

boalt2l
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Re: Jump to Wall St. or Consulting Firm?

Postby boalt2l » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:05 am

If you are not interested in practicing law, you should drop out. A job at consulting or finance is not going to require a JD and all your studying will basically be wasted. Apply to MBA programs, that's what you want to do anyways. At least consider JD/MBA. Do not waste 140k more on a degree which will be of no help to you.

HTH

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rayiner
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Re: Jump to Wall St. or Consulting Firm?

Postby rayiner » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:I am a rising 2L at a T14 with medium grades. I really hate law. I like numbers more than words, and I like to bullshit (consulting) and gamble (Wall St.). I have a solid math background and a good personality. I should have got an MBA, but it's too late now, since I don't want to stay for one extra year. Anyone has any experience/advice regarding getting a consulting or Wall St. (as a trader, for example) job straight with a JD? I might still pass the bar two years from now, just to complete my legal journey.


Geez. That's right up there with saying "I want to do law because I like to argue."

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bgdddymtty
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Re: Jump to Wall St. or Consulting Firm?

Postby bgdddymtty » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:08 am

boalt2l wrote:If you are not interested in practicing law, you should drop out. A job at consulting or finance is not going to require a JD and all your studying will basically be wasted. Apply to MBA programs, that's what you want to do anyways. At least consider JD/MBA. Do not waste 140k more on a degree which will be of no help to you.

HTH
This is dead wrong. For one highly relevant example, major consulting firms have programs where they specifically hire JD's and others with advanced degrees. IIRC, McKinsey's site for their program is apd.mckinsey.com. Firms like Goldman have similar programs. Dropping out might be right for someone who wants to work in a field where a JD is an entirely irrelevant credential. However, neither consulting nor banking is such a field.

flcath
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Re: Jump to Wall St. or Consulting Firm?

Postby flcath » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:05 am

I highly question whether the bulk of the advice given ITT is adequately authoritative.

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englawyer
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Re: Jump to Wall St. or Consulting Firm?

Postby englawyer » Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:10 am

boalt2l wrote:If you are not interested in practicing law, you should drop out. A job at consulting or finance is not going to require a JD and all your studying will basically be wasted. Apply to MBA programs, that's what you want to do anyways. At least consider JD/MBA. Do not waste 140k more on a degree which will be of no help to you.

HTH


It is likely that the OP could not get into MBA programs. The admissions criteria are very different (prestigious undergrad matters alot, name brand employers and high quality work experience matter alot). They won't let in any average Joe that aces the GMAT and has a high GPA. Thus while he/she has only a small chance of getting into consulting/banking with a JD, its better than the likely 0 chance he/she can get into MBA.




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