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 Post subject: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 3:06 pm 
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It is often said that law is a noble profession. I was interested in hearing from some current students about why they believe this to be the case. I am several years out of law school and currently work for a large law firm. For me, law is a noble profession because lawyers never hesitate to work hard in order to help those in need, even when doing so will result in financial loss. At my firm, we regularly engage in pro bono work, even though representing large companies obviously tends to be much more profitable. In any case, I just wanted to say hello and to say that I look forward to welcoming many of you current law students into the profession.


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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 3:08 pm 
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Newberry642 wrote:
It is often said that law is a noble profession. I was interested in hearing from some current students about why they believe this to be the case. I am several years out of law school and currently work for a large law firm. For me, law is a noble profession because lawyers never hesitate to work hard in order to help those in need, even when doing so will result in financial loss. At my firm, we regularly engage in pro bono work, even though representing large companies obviously tends to be much more profitable. In any case, I just wanted to say hello and to say that I look forward to welcoming many of you current law students into the profession.

Wow, as an 0L starting law school this fall, I thank you for this post. It is inspiring to hear from someone who has been in the legal profession for awhile that has such a positive view of his job.

Thanks and I look forward to hearing what other students/professionals have to say. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 4:33 pm 
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I like to think that it is. Even personal injury attorneys, who most people crap on, do some amazing things for people.

It also depends what day you catch me on. The pride I feel for this profession is at its highest when, say, a conservative or liberal justice goes against what would be politically beneficial to their cause and rule according to the law or according to truth and justice.

In contrast, feelings of pride are at its lowest when I see opinions that back an agenda when any rational interpretation would bring the justices to another conclusion.

I believe (or at least am optimistic) that I won't waiver in my belief that this profession is noble and that we should do all we can to keep it that way.

Cheesy I know.


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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 11:25 pm 
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There is nothing noble about the law. It is a blunt instrument that gets used - and abused - by those with the power, wealth, and status to be able to manipulate it.

It is powerful, and when noble people or noble endeavors become involved, the law can take on that appearance. But there is absolutely nothing innately noble about it. It is a system for resolving disputes, nothing more, and nothing less. As such, important disputes cause disproportionate resources to be invested by those who are able, like all systems, it bends in favor of those who can afford to study and wield its nuances.

The law is a means to and end, and when that results in sticking up for the little guy, more power to it/him. But it would be completely disingenuous to ascribe the label noble to something as complicated and dynamic as the law.


Last edited by DAJ_Summer on Mon May 23, 2011 11:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 11:30 pm 
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DAJ_Summer wrote:
There is nothing noble about the law. It is a blunt instrument that gets used - and abused - by those with the power, wealth, and status to be able to manipulate it.

It is powerful, and when noble people or noble endeavors become involved, the law can take on that appearance. But there is absolutely nothing innately noble about it. It is a system for resolving dispute, nothing more, and nothing less. As such, important disputes cause disproportionate resources to be invested by those who are able, like all systems, it bends in favor of those who can afford to study and wield its nuances.

The law is a means to and end, and when that means sticking up for the little guy, more more to it/him. But it would be completely disingenuous to ascribe the label noble to something as complicated and dynamic as the law.


cr


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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:22 am 
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Newberry642 wrote:
It is often said that law is a noble profession. I was interested in hearing from some current students about why they believe this to be the case. I am several years out of law school and currently work for a large law firm. For me, law is a noble profession because lawyers never hesitate to work hard in order to help those in need, even when doing so will result in financial loss. At my firm, we regularly engage in pro bono work, even though representing large companies obviously tends to be much more profitable. In any case, I just wanted to say hello and to say that I look forward to welcoming many of you current law students into the profession.



Flame. Most large firms treat pro bono as a recruiting/marketing device and otherwise as an afterthought


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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:39 am 
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TLS: Finally, do you have any parting words of wisdom for Top-Law-Schools.com members either about succeeding in law school or in the legal profession?
Yes, I do.
First, don’t lose sight of the fact that law is a noble profession. Most of what we do as a society would be impossible without the rule of law, and lawyers enforce it. Lawyers are disproportionately represented in the legislative branch (roughly ½ of the senate and 1/3 of the house); often lead the executive branch (most presidents have been lawyers); and constitute the entire judicial branch. Lawyers perform valuable services to the public as legal aid lawyers, prosecutors, public defenders, and so forth. And in the private sector, lawyers provide peace – by helping parties resolve those rare disputes they are unable to resolve on their own – and prosperity – by helping parties put together those rare deals they are unable to put together on their own. You should be proud of your choice to pursue legal education and a career in law.


From the TLS interview with Chris Guthrie, Dean of Vanderbilt

http://www.top-law-schools.com/chris-gu ... rview.html


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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:40 am 
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blsingindisguise wrote:
Newberry642 wrote:
It is often said that law is a noble profession. I was interested in hearing from some current students about why they believe this to be the case. I am several years out of law school and currently work for a large law firm. For me, law is a noble profession because lawyers never hesitate to work hard in order to help those in need, even when doing so will result in financial loss. At my firm, we regularly engage in pro bono work, even though representing large companies obviously tends to be much more profitable. In any case, I just wanted to say hello and to say that I look forward to welcoming many of you current law students into the profession.



Flame. Most large firms treat pro bono as a recruiting/marketing device and otherwise as an afterthought

Why would a prestigious firm have to use pro bono to attract talent when the name/exit options/prestige/money would do it alone?


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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:43 am 
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adonai wrote:
Why would a prestigious firm have to use pro bono to attract talent when the name/exit options/prestige/money would do it alone?


That would be a reasonable question if it were biglaw vs. non-biglaw, but the biglaw firms have to compete against each other too.

To be fair, some firms seem to do a better job than others of actually legitimately devoting time and manpower to pro bono. The bottom line, however, is that it's the equivalent of the starbucks water that donates 5% of profits to third world water supply or whatever. You're still drinking the corporate water bro.


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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 1:16 am 
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DAJ_Summer wrote:
It is powerful, and when noble people or noble endeavors become involved, the law can take on that appearance. But there is absolutely nothing innately noble about it. It is a system for resolving disputes, nothing more, and nothing less.


/thread


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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 4:59 am 
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.


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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 6:19 am 
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DAJ_Summer wrote:
There is nothing noble about the law. It is a blunt instrument that gets used - and abused - by those with the power, wealth, and status to be able to manipulate it.

There may be nothing innately noble about it; but there is also nothing innately ignoble. It's not just a system of whatever rules we make; it's a system of justice as well. And we take from it what we bring to it. If we expect our justice system to bend and sway to the whims of the rich and powerful, regardless of the cost or consequences to others, then that is what it will do. But not everyone holds it to such a frail standard, or hopes for such a pale result.


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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 7:57 am 
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Newberry642 wrote:
It is often said that law is a noble profession. I was interested in hearing from some current students about why they believe this to be the case. I am several years out of law school and currently work for a large law firm. For me, law is a noble profession because lawyers never hesitate to work hard in order to help those in need, even when doing so will result in financial loss. At my firm, we regularly engage in pro bono work, even though representing large companies obviously tends to be much more profitable. In any case, I just wanted to say hello and to say that I look forward to welcoming many of you current law students into the profession.


Is it ennobling that the reason you do pro bono work is because it's a good marketing tool, and it's one of the few ways young associates can get trail experience?


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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 8:35 am 
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DAJ_Summer wrote:
There is nothing noble about the law. It is a blunt instrument that gets used - and abused - by those with the power, wealth, and status to be able to manipulate it.

It is powerful, and when noble people or noble endeavors become involved, the law can take on that appearance. But there is absolutely nothing innately noble about it. It is a system for resolving disputes, nothing more, and nothing less. As such, important disputes cause disproportionate resources to be invested by those who are able, like all systems, it bends in favor of those who can afford to study and wield its nuances.

The law is a means to and end, and when that results in sticking up for the little guy, more power to it/him. But it would be completely disingenuous to ascribe the label noble to something as complicated and dynamic as the law.



This is largely correct. Nobility occurs only at the individual level, where some lawyers practice ethically and passionately their whole lives, and others exploit the system for their and their clients' benefits.


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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 8:52 am 
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Whether or not lawyers help those in need, law is a noble profession. In no other system can you be assured of having someone on your side, no matter what society, or even the government, thinks about you. Even though I don't agree with some of there positions, I think the JAG corps demonstrates this. Can you imagine how hard it was for those guys to defend the gitmo detainees. They could have really half-assed it and no one would have said boo. Instead, they came up with arguments clever and tricky enough to get the case before SCOTUS. As long as we follow that model, how can anyone say that law lacks nobility?


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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 10:50 am 
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A noble profession for the noble minded


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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:07 am 
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Veyron wrote:
Can you imagine how hard it was for those guys to defend the gitmo detainees. They could have really half-assed it and no one would have said boo. Instead, they came up with arguments clever and tricky enough to get the case before SCOTUS. As long as we follow that model, how can anyone say that law lacks nobility?

I cannot imagine how it would have been anything but easy for someone with even a hint of conscience to defend gitmo detainees, given that most of them are the innocent victims of a "justice" system run completely amok. Gitmo is itself the result of a complete perversion of justice. People like you scare me.


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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:16 am 
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the most noble thing about the legal profession is the anonymity


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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:18 am 
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fatduck wrote:
the most noble thing about the legal profession is the anonymity


lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:13 pm 
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Veyron wrote:
Whether or not lawyers help those in need, law is a noble profession. In no other system can you be assured of having someone on your side, no matter what society, or even the government, thinks about you. Even though I don't agree with some of there positions, I think the JAG corps demonstrates this. Can you imagine how hard it was for those guys to defend the gitmo detainees. They could have really half-assed it and no one would have said boo. Instead, they came up with arguments clever and tricky enough to get the case before SCOTUS. As long as we follow that model, how can anyone say that law lacks nobility?



The framers of Constitution attempted to be fair, at least abstractly, and in that sense they were mildly noble. Subsequently, lawmakers have not exactly been noble in unison. Nobility in practice is what counts, though. The law used a certain way can produce highly unfair and ignoble outcomes.


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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:39 pm 
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Verity wrote:
Veyron wrote:
Whether or not lawyers help those in need, law is a noble profession. In no other system can you be assured of having someone on your side, no matter what society, or even the government, thinks about you. Even though I don't agree with some of there positions, I think the JAG corps demonstrates this. Can you imagine how hard it was for those guys to defend the gitmo detainees. They could have really half-assed it and no one would have said boo. Instead, they came up with arguments clever and tricky enough to get the case before SCOTUS. As long as we follow that model, how can anyone say that law lacks nobility?



The framers of Constitution attempted to be fair, at least abstractly, and in that sense they were mildly noble. Subsequently, lawmakers have not exactly been noble in unison. Nobility in practice is what counts, though. The law used a certain way can produce highly unfair and ignoble outcomes.



This has 0L written all over this post.


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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 3:35 pm 
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soaponarope wrote:
Verity wrote:
Veyron wrote:
Whether or not lawyers help those in need, law is a noble profession. In no other system can you be assured of having someone on your side, no matter what society, or even the government, thinks about you. Even though I don't agree with some of there positions, I think the JAG corps demonstrates this. Can you imagine how hard it was for those guys to defend the gitmo detainees. They could have really half-assed it and no one would have said boo. Instead, they came up with arguments clever and tricky enough to get the case before SCOTUS. As long as we follow that model, how can anyone say that law lacks nobility?



The framers of Constitution attempted to be fair, at least abstractly, and in that sense they were mildly noble. Subsequently, lawmakers have not exactly been noble in unison. Nobility in practice is what counts, though. The law used a certain way can produce highly unfair and ignoble outcomes.



This has 0L written all over this post.



I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any practicing lawyer with half a brain who doesn't think the legal system can be manipulated. If you think it's jejune to discuss this, then check out the lounge.


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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 6:24 pm 
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Verity wrote:
soaponarope wrote:
Verity wrote:
Veyron wrote:
Whether or not lawyers help those in need, law is a noble profession. In no other system can you be assured of having someone on your side, no matter what society, or even the government, thinks about you. Even though I don't agree with some of there positions, I think the JAG corps demonstrates this. Can you imagine how hard it was for those guys to defend the gitmo detainees. They could have really half-assed it and no one would have said boo. Instead, they came up with arguments clever and tricky enough to get the case before SCOTUS. As long as we follow that model, how can anyone say that law lacks nobility?



The framers of Constitution attempted to be fair, at least abstractly, and in that sense they were mildly noble. Subsequently, lawmakers have not exactly been noble in unison. Nobility in practice is what counts, though. The law used a certain way can produce highly unfair and ignoble outcomes.



This has 0L written all over this post.



I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any practicing lawyer with half a brain who doesn't think the legal system can be manipulated. If you think it's jejune to discuss this, then check out the lounge.


Who said the legal system couldn't? Point is, if you're a 0L you should tone down your conclusory opinions. And "jejune" ? Speak English... using legalese in lawl school does not impress professors and your classmates will think you're a douche. Tighten up kid.


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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 6:39 pm 
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Anonymous User wrote:
Veyron wrote:
Can you imagine how hard it was for those guys to defend the gitmo detainees. They could have really half-assed it and no one would have said boo. Instead, they came up with arguments clever and tricky enough to get the case before SCOTUS. As long as we follow that model, how can anyone say that law lacks nobility?

I cannot imagine how it would have been anything but easy for someone with even a hint of conscience to defend gitmo detainees, given that most of them are the innocent victims of a "justice" system run completely amok. Gitmo is itself the result of a complete perversion of justice. People like you scare me.

You're too much of a puss to post under your real handle LOL


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 Post subject: Re: Law as a noble profession
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 7:28 pm 
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soaponarope wrote:
Verity wrote:
Verity wrote:
Veyron wrote:
Whether or not lawyers help those in need, law is a noble profession. In no other system can you be assured of having someone on your side, no matter what society, or even the government, thinks about you. Even though I don't agree with some of there positions, I think the JAG corps demonstrates this. Can you imagine how hard it was for those guys to defend the gitmo detainees. They could have really half-assed it and no one would have said boo. Instead, they came up with arguments clever and tricky enough to get the case before SCOTUS. As long as we follow that model, how can anyone say that law lacks nobility?


The framers of Constitution attempted to be fair, at least abstractly, and in that sense they were mildly noble. Subsequently, lawmakers have not exactly been noble in unison. Nobility in practice is what counts, though. The law used a certain way can produce highly unfair and ignoble outcomes.



This has 0L written all over this post.



I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any practicing lawyer with half a brain who doesn't think the legal system can be manipulated. If you think it's jejune to discuss this, then check out the lounge.


Who said the legal system couldn't? Point is, if you're a 0L you should tone down your conclusory opinions. And "jejune" ? Speak English... using legalese in lawl school does not impress professors and your classmates will think you're a douche. Tighten up kid.


DFW also disapproves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_sQrxAorDo


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