Fbi Question

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
RevolverX
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 5:28 pm

Fbi Question

Postby RevolverX » Sun May 22, 2011 2:35 pm

If you graduate law school, and thereafter you intend to join the Fbi as a new grad, will they not hire you because you have 0 work experience? It is said 3 years of work experience is required to be eligible to apply..why? Is this true or untrue?

User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11720
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: Fbi Question

Postby kalvano » Sun May 22, 2011 3:30 pm

Join the FBI for what? A field agent?

User avatar
fundamentallybroken
Posts: 663
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:52 am

Re: Fbi Question

Postby fundamentallybroken » Sun May 22, 2011 3:33 pm

I believe it's true for both field agents and their other, legal-type jobs, because:

1. They don't want to train you from nothing, and

2. After some work experience, you'll start to have some sort of specialization.

ViIIager
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:09 pm

Re: Fbi Question

Postby ViIIager » Sun May 22, 2011 3:43 pm

Visit their website and look at their different tracks. There are tracks for cyber, *law*, etc. and the website explains it all in a fairly detailed way.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273107
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Fbi Question

Postby Anonymous User » Sun May 22, 2011 9:36 pm

If you don't have work experience, you have no chance in the interview. I might have mentioned school once in all my interviews. For full-time, they get about 150,000 applications per year.

Below is copy/paste my answer to a similar thread a few weeks ago if it adds any more info:

**************

This thread seems to pop up every few weeks... regarding CIA, I do not know much, but the bits about the background check will be close as you will need to obtain a TS clearance. As for the job duties, FBI counsel would be a lot of FOIA requests (everybody who gets dinged can get their file to see why, plus all the requests for regular FBI files from journalists, etc.)

As for the FBI, law students aren't exactly what they want. Does the FBI have counsel? Yes. But applying for that is like applying for corporate counsel straight out of law school. The FBI is the organization that does the digging to get the indictment. Once the thing heads to a grand jury, it is out of their hands and is 100% DoJ. FBI internships have been shifted from HQ to field offices, so it is likely impossible to get a true "legal" internship out of it. Further, getting hired full-time at the FBI requires work experience. I actually got bored in the interview because it was question after question of, "tell me about a time when...", and all I had to do was tick off each position on my resume.

But... and this is a huge but.... an FBI internship on your resume will stop everyone. Everybody loves to talk to the FBI (you'd find this out in the background investigation - my phone was ringing off the hook for a solid two weeks with ... hey, I just got a call from the FBI about you .... hey, the agent is coming to talk to me today .... hey, the agent asked all kinds of crazy questions .... hey, I gave him/her so-and-so's name because he/she asked for more contacts). The rest of your resume will almost cease to exist.

The security clearance - if you fall into any of these categories, don't bother applying:
- Done marijuana in the last three years
- Done any other illegal drug ever (this includes abusing prescription medication - meaning if you take Adderall to study, you better have a prescription for it)
- Carry a large debt load (this might ding a lot of law students - they don't want people who might be tempted to sell secrets. Be prepared to list every bank account in your name)
- Any sort of serious run-in with the law (including speeding tickets - these alone won't ding you, but a pattern of tickets will)
- As I mentioned above, they're going to talk to everybody.
- Have to pass a polygraph about all this

Both organizations have their "type" that they search out. I fit the FBI mold. The CIA would never hire me. It is what it is. It is a big, big mountain to climb, but clearly not impossible. With the hiring freeze, about the best hope you have is to land an internship for next summer (CIA deadline is in October I think, FBI opens on November 1 and runs for about two weeks) and then try to work it from there.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273107
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Fbi Question

Postby Anonymous User » Sun May 22, 2011 9:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:If you don't have work experience, you have no chance in the interview. I might have mentioned school once in all my interviews. For full-time, they get about 150,000 applications per year.

Below is copy/paste my answer to a similar thread a few weeks ago if it adds any more info:

**************

- Done any other illegal drug ever (this includes abusing prescription medication - meaning if you take Adderall to study, you better have a prescription for it)


Is there any wiggle room in this? We're talking a person who smoked weed twice in their life and tried acid once is an auto ding 5 years removed from any of it? And would it be stupid to apply if that were the case? Is it one of those things where it's a failed federal background check and stays with you forever?

User avatar
holdencaulfield
Posts: 478
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:12 pm

Re: Fbi Question

Postby holdencaulfield » Mon May 23, 2011 1:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If you don't have work experience, you have no chance in the interview. I might have mentioned school once in all my interviews. For full-time, they get about 150,000 applications per year.

Below is copy/paste my answer to a similar thread a few weeks ago if it adds any more info:

**************

- Done any other illegal drug ever (this includes abusing prescription medication - meaning if you take Adderall to study, you better have a prescription for it)


Is there any wiggle room in this? We're talking a person who smoked weed twice in their life and tried acid once is an auto ding 5 years removed from any of it? And would it be stupid to apply if that were the case? Is it one of those things where it's a failed federal background check and stays with you forever?



Smoking weed once or twice will not ruin your chances. However, the current hiring freeze might.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273107
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Fbi Question

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 23, 2011 2:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:Is there any wiggle room in this? We're talking a person who smoked weed twice in their life and tried acid once is an auto ding 5 years removed from any of it? And would it be stupid to apply if that were the case? Is it one of those things where it's a failed federal background check and stays with you forever?


The weed... you could admit to because it isn't within three years.

The acid... how confident are you in your ability to pass a polygraph when they ask about drug use? If you admit it, you're probably out - they don't look too kindly on anything outside distant past marijuana use. I understand the whole concept of experimentation, but they see it as a "judgement" issue. It goes back to that whole "mold" bit in my original copy/pasted post.... it's just how that agency is.

I'm not sure about the intricacies of what stays in your file or not - however, from what I've read, it would only impact any effort to obtain a security clearance from another organization. If you apply at a law firm and they do a background check on you, it won't show up.

About the hiring freeze - some job postings have been made within the past week or two. However, the scales are tipped heavily in favor of internal candidates as they don't want to take the time/money to run background checks that take 6 months.

User avatar
Lawquacious
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:36 am

Re: Fbi Question

Postby Lawquacious » Mon May 23, 2011 2:06 am

I think there is a lot of misinformation in this thread. As far as I know law students do get hired by FBI (at least for summer SAs, but I suspect for regular employment after school as well) without having related work experience. But I'm sure law enforcement or military background helps. I just doubt that it is necessarily a bizarre long-shot without it, especially if you go to a strong school and have done well. I could be wrong though. I do know at least one 1L friend who got a summer offer from FBI, but he ended up taking another offer (and he did seem to have some probs with the polygraph).

Edit: see next post re: drug auto-ding exclusions. Some of the info posted above is not correct.
Last edited by Lawquacious on Mon May 23, 2011 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Lawquacious
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:36 am

Re: Fbi Question

Postby Lawquacious » Mon May 23, 2011 2:09 am

I think this is current:


Criteria

You can easily determine whether you meet the FBI's illegal drug policy by answering the following questions:

Have you used marijuana at all within the last three years?
Have you used any other illegal drug (including anabolic steroids after February 27, 1991) at all in the past 10 years?
Have you ever sold any illegal drug?
Have you ever used an illegal drug (no matter how many times or how long ago) while in a law enforcement or prosecutorial position, or in a position which carries with it a high level of responsibility or public trust?
Have you ever used any prescription drug in its original intended manner, but without the proper prescription or legal justification for use within one year (12 months) preceding the date of the preliminary application?
Have you ever used any prescription drug or used a legally obtained substance in a manner for which it was not intended within three years (36 months) preceding the date of the preliminary application for employment?

If you answered Yes to any of these questions, you are not eligible for employment with the FBI.

User avatar
Lawquacious
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:36 am

Re: Fbi Question

Postby Lawquacious » Mon May 23, 2011 2:13 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If you don't have work experience, you have no chance in the interview. I might have mentioned school once in all my interviews. For full-time, they get about 150,000 applications per year.

Below is copy/paste my answer to a similar thread a few weeks ago if it adds any more info:

**************

- Done any other illegal drug ever (this includes abusing prescription medication - meaning if you take Adderall to study, you better have a prescription for it)


Is there any wiggle room in this? We're talking a person who smoked weed twice in their life and tried acid once is an auto ding 5 years removed from any of it? And would it be stupid to apply if that were the case? Is it one of those things where it's a failed federal background check and stays with you forever?



See the criteria I posted from FBI website. It's not generally a lifetime thing for drug use (regardless of the drug), unless it occurred while in certain work positions. But your use of acid 5 years ago will exclude you for another 5 years, unless you can get an exception (which can be made, but I imagine they would need to really want to hire you in the first place).

Anonymous User
Posts: 273107
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Fbi Question

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 23, 2011 3:12 pm

Lawquacious wrote:I think there is a lot of misinformation in this thread.


You're right, what do I know... I've only been through the process.

There has been a softening on marijuana recently, but they still want to know everything about it. If you're going to go in and lie about drug use, then they don't want you. If you think they aren't going to judge you for illegal activity even if it doesn't 100% exclude you from employment, you're crazy. At what I thought was an advanced part of the recruiting process, my HR contact said they have to bring three or four candidates to that point to get one out the other side.

Regarding summer positions, the internship program has been moved from HQ to field offices, so there may now be zero "SA"-type positions. You really need to look at shooting for FBI counsel the same as shooting for GE or Disney or P&G counsel straight out of school. There are currently 165 openings posted on the FBI website; there are more openings for plumbers (1) than there are for lawyers (0). Says it all.

Edit: sorry, just saw this:

But your use of acid 5 years ago will exclude you for another 5 years, unless you can get an exception (which can be made, but I imagine they would need to really want to hire you in the first place).


If you go in and ask an agent for an exception (the people interviewing you are agents), they'll tell you to leave. Going back again to the mold each agency hires.... that's an instant fail for showing you fit the mold.

User avatar
A'nold
Posts: 3622
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:07 pm

Re: Fbi Question

Postby A'nold » Mon May 23, 2011 3:37 pm

It really seems that to have any kind of shot at getting past the background check, one must have been planning on doing this since like 6th grade. Sure, there is like 1-3% of the population that hasn't tried marijuana but geesh.

RevolverX
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 5:28 pm

Re: Fbi Question

Postby RevolverX » Mon May 23, 2011 4:11 pm

So they do not hire you no matter what degree you have if you have 0 years work experience after your degree is conferred, true? Gosh that sucks. And they want a 3 year minimum. More selective than Yale law.

User avatar
DoubleChecks
Posts: 2333
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:35 pm

Re: Fbi Question

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon May 23, 2011 4:18 pm

Lawquacious wrote:I think there is a lot of misinformation in this thread. As far as I know law students do get hired by FBI (at least for summer SAs, but I suspect for regular employment after school as well) without having related work experience. But I'm sure law enforcement or military background helps. I just doubt that it is necessarily a bizarre long-shot without it, especially if you go to a strong school and have done well. I could be wrong though. I do know at least one 1L friend who got a summer offer from FBI, but he ended up taking another offer (and he did seem to have some probs with the polygraph).

Edit: see next post re: drug auto-ding exclusions. Some of the info posted above is not correct.


i dont know if anyone really said you needed military or law enforcement WE/background. lol and nice catch on the 10 yrs vs whole life clause on the any illegal drug bit, but at some points, you almost sound as if you just want to refute anon's posts more than supplement it (when the info in both seem to be more supportive than conflicting)

User avatar
DoubleChecks
Posts: 2333
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:35 pm

Re: Fbi Question

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon May 23, 2011 4:19 pm

A'nold wrote:It really seems that to have any kind of shot at getting past the background check, one must have been planning on doing this since like 6th grade. Sure, there is like 1-3% of the population that hasn't tried marijuana but geesh.


i must be a really boring/straight arrow haha i meet all the requirements with easy lol.

User avatar
A'nold
Posts: 3622
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:07 pm

Re: Fbi Question

Postby A'nold » Mon May 23, 2011 4:22 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
A'nold wrote:It really seems that to have any kind of shot at getting past the background check, one must have been planning on doing this since like 6th grade. Sure, there is like 1-3% of the population that hasn't tried marijuana but geesh.


i must be a really boring/straight arrow haha i meet all the requirements with easy lol.

Wait....are you Asian? Then you were forced to be a straight arrow. :wink:

Edit to add: It's actually really interesting that I would never qualify for a variety of reasons, but I'm a law abiding citizen that everyone I know would say is a "stand up guy." I've never even gotten a speeding ticket, lol. And no, I've never done any bad kinds of drugs if that was your first thought. :)
Last edited by A'nold on Mon May 23, 2011 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
DoubleChecks
Posts: 2333
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:35 pm

Re: Fbi Question

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon May 23, 2011 4:23 pm

A'nold wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
A'nold wrote:It really seems that to have any kind of shot at getting past the background check, one must have been planning on doing this since like 6th grade. Sure, there is like 1-3% of the population that hasn't tried marijuana but geesh.


i must be a really boring/straight arrow haha i meet all the requirements with easy lol.

Wait....are you Asian? Then you were forced to be a straight arrow. :wink:


oh truf, you're right, i never had a choice :P

User avatar
A'nold
Posts: 3622
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:07 pm

Re: Fbi Question

Postby A'nold » Mon May 23, 2011 4:25 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
A'nold wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
A'nold wrote:It really seems that to have any kind of shot at getting past the background check, one must have been planning on doing this since like 6th grade. Sure, there is like 1-3% of the population that hasn't tried marijuana but geesh.


i must be a really boring/straight arrow haha i meet all the requirements with easy lol.

Wait....are you Asian? Then you were forced to be a straight arrow. :wink:


oh truf, you're right, i never had a choice :P

:)

Anonymous User
Posts: 273107
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Fbi Question

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 23, 2011 4:33 pm

RevolverX wrote:So they do not hire you no matter what degree you have if you have 0 years work experience after your degree is conferred, true? Gosh that sucks. And they want a 3 year minimum. More selective than Yale law.


I nearly included this in my last reply, but as someone who was out for a couple years before going back to school, kids who roll straight from undergrad to law school or do something menial for a year seem to have no concept of the value of work experience to employers. It isn't meant to be degrading in any way (that's why I left it out before), but when you're in a 2 hour interview that is non-stop questions of, "Tell me about a time when...", I would think it's awfully hard to come up with anything if you've been sitting at a desk for the past 18 years of your life. I had a job where I'd pull three straight weeks without a day off and a 100 hour week at crunch time was the norm - there's an awful lot of material to pull there. Contrast that to studying for finals... yeah you can pull a 100-hour week, but it can be summed up in about 15 seconds.

I'll admit... I was the nerd who was elected president of a fraternity because I was the one who could actually be trusted to keep the finances and people in line - had one underage drink ever, never touched a drug, never been pulled over. I look back on it and wonder how I managed that (key: don't like cheap beer and didn't discover rum until I graduated undergrad) while not being the loser who sat around playing WoW by himself all day.

The bit about 10 years versus ever.... 10 is auto-ding, forever is that they will want to know about it and you can still get dinged. On the whole, I can say that Lawalicious (or whatever the handle is) has no idea what he/she is talking about. The bit about exceptions being given made me literally laugh out loud, not just Internet LOL.

User avatar
Moxie
Posts: 665
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:27 pm

Re: Fbi Question

Postby Moxie » Mon May 23, 2011 6:17 pm

RevolverX wrote:If you graduate law school, and thereafter you intend to join the Fbi as a new grad, will they not hire you because you have 0 work experience? It is said 3 years of work experience is required to be eligible to apply..why? Is this true or untrue?


Are you talking about being an agent or working in the Counsel's Office?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273107
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Fbi Question

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 23, 2011 7:26 pm

Maybe this will help put this topic to bed... for Office of General Counsel:

Applicant's must possess a J.D. degree, be an active member of the Bar (any jurisdiction), and have at least one year post-J.D. experience as a practicing Attorney.

Legal experience, commensurate with the duties and responsibilities of the position, is preferred (e.g., applicants for positions in the Administrative Law Unit should have a background in administrative law, etc.). Candidates must have exceptional academic credentials, judicial clerkship or comparable experience, strong advocacy skills, and superior legal research and writing/analytical skills.


So straight out, no. One year out, doubtful. 3-5 years out, probably about the time to start looking. As I mentioned earlier... it's like applying for corporate counsel at a Fortune 100 company straight out of law school - it just doesn't happen. I'm not meaning to stomp on anyone's plans, but it's good to have a realistic assessment of the hiring landscape for the agency.

RevolverX
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 5:28 pm

Re: Fbi Question

Postby RevolverX » Tue May 24, 2011 12:00 am

Moxie wrote:
RevolverX wrote:If you graduate law school, and thereafter you intend to join the Fbi as a new grad, will they not hire you because you have 0 work experience? It is said 3 years of work experience is required to be eligible to apply..why? Is this true or untrue?


Are you talking about being an agent or working in the Counsel's Office?


Both, though obviously now we know that working in Counsel doesn't work, so how about agents? Still, even then, they say WE is necessary.

User avatar
fundamentallybroken
Posts: 663
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:52 am

Re: Fbi Question

Postby fundamentallybroken » Tue May 24, 2011 12:03 am

RevolverX wrote:
Moxie wrote:
RevolverX wrote:If you graduate law school, and thereafter you intend to join the Fbi as a new grad, will they not hire you because you have 0 work experience? It is said 3 years of work experience is required to be eligible to apply..why? Is this true or untrue?


Are you talking about being an agent or working in the Counsel's Office?


Both, though obviously now we know that working in Counsel doesn't work, so how about agents? Still, even then, they say WE is necessary.


Although I can't be sure, I would take that to imply that WE is necessary.

User avatar
clintonius
Posts: 1239
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:50 am

Re: Fbi Question

Postby clintonius » Tue May 24, 2011 9:30 am

Asha Rangappa, Yale's dean of admissions, joined the FBI as a special agent without prior WE (she clerked for a year between law school and the FBI, and did a Fulbright in her year between undergrad and law school). She was also awesome enough to get into and later score a dean position with Yale Law, and so probably isn't a typical case.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.