rising 2L-no summer job

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Anonymous User
Posts: 273254
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: rising 2L-no summer job

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 24, 2011 12:04 pm

flcath wrote:
Gideon Strumpet wrote:at any school you will have 5-10% of the class that will "get As" in every class, and 90-95% that never get an A in any class.

This doesn't add up unless we assume that the only way to get an A in any class is to get As in all of them.


Of course it's not actually true that all the As go to the same 5-10%. However, it is not so far from true to be easily dismissed. Half (maybe) of the As go to pretty much the same people, who bunch around 4.0 -- the other half goes to people who get some As, and some lower grades.

This is to say, if you're aren't getting pretty much all As, the bad news is that any shot at the top 5% is long gone. The good news is that the second half of the top ten falls off pretty steeply as far as GPA requirement is concerned. It isn't a linear relationship.

In a hypothetical "top 10%" of a 200 person class, it may look something like this:
3.95
3.94
3.93
3.92
3.91
---
3.88
3.86
3.84
3.80
3.76
---
3.71
3.69
3.68
3.67
3.66
---
3.64
3.63
3.62
3.61
3.60

flcath
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: rising 2L-no summer job

Postby flcath » Thu May 26, 2011 9:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:
flcath wrote:
Gideon Strumpet wrote:at any school you will have 5-10% of the class that will "get As" in every class, and 90-95% that never get an A in any class.

This doesn't add up unless we assume that the only way to get an A in any class is to get As in all of them.


Of course it's not actually true that all the As go to the same 5-10%. However, it is not so far from true to be easily dismissed. Half (maybe) of the As go to pretty much the same people, who bunch around 4.0 -- the other half goes to people who get some As, and some lower grades.

This is to say, if you're aren't getting pretty much all As, the bad news is that any shot at the top 5% is long gone. The good news is that the second half of the top ten falls off pretty steeply as far as GPA requirement is concerned. It isn't a linear relationship.

In a hypothetical "top 10%" of a 200 person class, it may look something like this:
3.95
3.94
3.93
3.92
3.91
---
3.88
3.86
3.84
3.80
3.76
---
3.71
3.69
3.68
3.67
3.66
---
3.64
3.63
3.62
3.61
3.60

In a normally-distributed class (a "bell curve") there will be a continuously greater number of students at each GPA range as you move from 4.0 down to the class mean/median.

Obviously your hypo could be the case, but there's no evidence to suggest that it is. To figure it out for certain, the school would have to release stats that are more detailed than any I've ever heard of.

Anecdotally, I personally got 2 A's, and also a straight B. It does happen, and it isn't like there's some crazy backstory to explain why my torts grade was so anomalously low. It really is true that you can be "good" at some classes but not at others.

User avatar
beach_terror
Posts: 7241
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:01 pm

Re: rising 2L-no summer job

Postby beach_terror » Thu May 26, 2011 11:17 am

flcath wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
flcath wrote:
Gideon Strumpet wrote:at any school you will have 5-10% of the class that will "get As" in every class, and 90-95% that never get an A in any class.

This doesn't add up unless we assume that the only way to get an A in any class is to get As in all of them.


Of course it's not actually true that all the As go to the same 5-10%. However, it is not so far from true to be easily dismissed. Half (maybe) of the As go to pretty much the same people, who bunch around 4.0 -- the other half goes to people who get some As, and some lower grades.

This is to say, if you're aren't getting pretty much all As, the bad news is that any shot at the top 5% is long gone. The good news is that the second half of the top ten falls off pretty steeply as far as GPA requirement is concerned. It isn't a linear relationship.

In a hypothetical "top 10%" of a 200 person class, it may look something like this:
3.95
3.94
3.93
3.92
3.91
---
3.88
3.86
3.84
3.80
3.76
---
3.71
3.69
3.68
3.67
3.66
---
3.64
3.63
3.62
3.61
3.60

In a normally-distributed class (a "bell curve") there will be a continuously greater number of students at each GPA range as you move from 4.0 down to the class mean/median.

Obviously your hypo could be the case, but there's no evidence to suggest that it is. To figure it out for certain, the school would have to release stats that are more detailed than any I've ever heard of.

Anecdotally, I personally got 2 A's, and also a straight B. It does happen, and it isn't like there's some crazy backstory to explain why my torts grade was so anomalously low. It really is true that you can be "good" at some classes but not at others.

We got fairly precise distribution charts after first semester. Only 4 people had above a 3.84. So that pretty much kills the above posters theory. It's far more likely to see people cluster around 3.7 than it is 4.0.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273254
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: rising 2L-no summer job

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 26, 2011 1:02 pm

I received an A+, A, A last semester, and one other student in my 20 student section receive A, A, A-
From the rest of the class, I only have heard of one other student receiving an A (in the class the second student received the A- in) -- our recommended distribution is 5-10% A in each class --- therefore the theory seems to hold --- there will be a massive dropoff to whoever the 3rd student is (i.e. the top 15%) -- who at best received 3 straight A-'s (the other student who received an A also received a B)

This is a small sample size compared to many law school classes, but its undoubtedly true that grades correlate, and some students will correlate so strongly that (at both ends) *some* bunching will occur when the grades are aggregated

flcath
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: rising 2L-no summer job

Postby flcath » Thu May 26, 2011 8:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I received an A+, A, A last semester, and one other student in my 20 student section receive A, A, A-
From the rest of the class, I only have heard of one other student receiving an A (in the class the second student received the A- in) -- our recommended distribution is 5-10% A in each class --- therefore the theory seems to hold --- there will be a massive dropoff to whoever the 3rd student is (i.e. the top 15%) -- who at best received 3 straight A-'s (the other student who received an A also received a B)

This is a small sample size compared to many law school classes, but its undoubtedly true that grades correlate, and some students will correlate so strongly that (at both ends) *some* bunching will occur when the grades are aggregated

That's fine, but unless >95% of the students receiving at least one A go on to receive all A's, the original statement doesn't work out.

If it was hyperbole to illustrate a point (i.e., that grades tend to be feast or famine) then maybe I can cut some slack, but frankly I don't think that that tendency is very pronounced at all.

Bear in mind, those that "cluster around the 4.0" also tend to be the most visible students in the class / those whose GPAs are kept the least secret by the administration, etc.




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