State court clerkships?

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Anonymous User
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State court clerkships?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 20, 2011 2:52 am

I received most of my second semester 2L grades, and am currently around top 1/3 at MVP. Not on law review, but am on the ed board of a secondary journal.

I realize I have no shot at a federal clerkship. Is it worth it to apply to state court clerkships? Do I even have a shot? When does the application cycle begin?

Gideon Strumpet
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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby Gideon Strumpet » Fri May 20, 2011 3:03 am

It's worth your time to apply, especially in states where either your school is, or you have obvious strong connections. There isn't a cycle for state courts, and deadlines are all over the place; some I know of fall as early as August. Just figure out what states you want to target and contact the courts to find out how to apply. Most will have some sort of website with information; but they all do their own thing. If you have a good clerkship program in career services at your school, hook up with them as well, and check any stats or feedback they have from past applicants to the states you're thinking about.

Anonymous User
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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 20, 2011 3:14 am

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri May 20, 2011 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

Gideon Strumpet
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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby Gideon Strumpet » Fri May 20, 2011 3:21 am

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the feedback. I am SAing for a firm located outside of the state I would target with clerkship applications. *Really hoping the summer goes well* If I receive an offer from the firm, would it be worth it to clerk at a court located in this state?

If you get an offer from your firm ITE, then I don't think a state court clerkship will pay off enough to justify the risk of being "out of sight, out of mind" with your firm for a year. If you have nothing in hand, then a clerkship in the state is a great way to get yourself to your next round of applications, and it will never be a liability. But if your firm makes an offer, then you should just grab it and hold on with both feet.

Anonymous User
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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 20, 2011 3:23 am

Thanks for the reply. I will keep your advice in mind.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Fri May 20, 2011 2:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote: Is it worth it to apply to state court clerkships?


Yes.

Do I even have a shot?


Depends on what court (i.e. what state and what level court) you are applying to and your ties to that state. There are definetely biases for regional schools for a lot of state court judges (because most of these judges didn't go to t14 schools, and a lot of them are loyal to the schools in the area and/or the school they went to).

When does the application cycle begin?


It all depends on the court.

Gideon Strumpet wrote:Just figure out what states you want to target and contact the courts to find out how to apply. Most will have some sort of website with information


Actually, you don't even need to do this much work. The vermont judicial clerkship guide compiles information for all the state supreme courts, has a ton of information for most state court of appeals, and even a good number of trial courts. Just go here: http://forms.vermontlaw.edu/career/guides/ . You need the username and password, but your school subscribes to the vermont judicial clerkship guide (i.e. if you go to MVP it does). Just email your CSO for the username and password.

learnedpaw
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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby learnedpaw » Fri May 20, 2011 9:10 pm

Keep in mind that many firms offer clerkship credit and bonuses for state court clerkships only within the firm's state, and then only for the state's highest court.

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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 24, 2011 3:10 am

I dunno if this is the best place to post or to make a new thread, but does anyone have any info about state court hiring in Utah or Colorado? I'm curious when they hire, credentials needed, etc. I've found there isn't really a database with this info like there is for fed stuff. Thanks!

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Tue May 24, 2011 4:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I dunno if this is the best place to post or to make a new thread, but does anyone have any info about state court hiring in Utah or Colorado? I'm curious when they hire, credentials needed, etc. I've found there isn't really a database with this info like there is for fed stuff. Thanks!


Application/hiring timelines are here: http://forms.vermontlaw.edu/career/guides/ . Salary info, etc is there as well. You won't be able to find credentials of the people typically hired there, but you can't find that information compiled for you on some website for fed courts either.

OldManHunger
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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby OldManHunger » Wed May 25, 2011 8:17 am

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Last edited by OldManHunger on Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

keg411
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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby keg411 » Wed May 25, 2011 10:12 am

OldManHunger wrote:A state supreme court clerkship is the only worth it if you can't get anything better (federal clerkship or a market-paying job) AND you plan to live forever in that state. An appellate clerkship might let you make some connections, but it's still a mark of shame, and a trial court clerkship is barely a job. I only mention this because OCS, who want to boost schools' "clerkship" score for US News, tout all clerkships equally, and because TLS is an echo chamber of wish-fulfillment information. If you really can't do any better--proceed.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

While these jobs aren't federal court, there is no reason to be that demeaning; especially since most law students aren't going to get BigLawl and these are at least pathways to getting full time legal work. I hope you strike out at OCI and have to "settle" for a state court clerkship. Better if it's one of the "barely a job" trial level clerkships.

OldManHunger
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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby OldManHunger » Wed May 25, 2011 11:35 am

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Last edited by OldManHunger on Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

keg411
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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby keg411 » Wed May 25, 2011 11:58 am

OldManHunger wrote:This is what I mean about wish-fulfillment echo chamber. If you are from a top law school, then working as an appellate level state court clerk is a mark of shame. Welcome to fucking reality, I shouldn't have to push your nose in it, but the OP asked "is it worth it," and this is the correct answer. I also said that if you can't do any better, proceed--the OP wasn't clear about whether he wanted to do a state clerkship because he didn't have other options or, instead, because he thought it would be a prestigious resume builder. Which it's not.


There is still no reason to degrade it as a "mark of shame" or "barely a job" just because it isn't Fed Court and it isn't presTTTigious. At least 40% of people at MVP are going to strike out at OCI; it's at least a way for them to get a job rather than cry and and be unemployed or do doc review. Obviously, if you have BigLaw it's not worth it, but OP never mentioned if he or she struck out at OCI or has BigLaw lined up.

Just be careful before you start degrading jobs. You never know if you are going to end up with a "mark of shame" on your own resume. All you had to say was, "if you have BigLaw lined up, it's probably not worth it since you likely won't get a clerkship bonus" (which is the truth and which has already been said ITT).

What the f.supp?
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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby What the f.supp? » Wed May 25, 2011 2:15 pm

Can someone explain the meaning behind presTTTigious? I've been able to urbandictionary the others (IMO, ITT, HTH) but can't find anything here. Much appreciated.

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bouakedojo
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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby bouakedojo » Wed May 25, 2011 2:22 pm

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Last edited by bouakedojo on Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

What the f.supp?
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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby What the f.supp? » Wed May 25, 2011 2:25 pm

"Why don't you explain this to me like I'm five." -Michael Scott

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bouakedojo
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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby bouakedojo » Wed May 25, 2011 2:28 pm

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Last edited by bouakedojo on Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

OldManHunger
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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby OldManHunger » Wed May 25, 2011 2:28 pm

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Last edited by OldManHunger on Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

What the f.supp?
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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby What the f.supp? » Wed May 25, 2011 2:35 pm

Thanksmuch. That clears up a lot!

keg411
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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby keg411 » Wed May 25, 2011 3:01 pm

OldManHunger wrote:Edit: Honestly, it's too stupid to bother explaining. It's basically just juvenile pissing. My point is that it doesn't help anyone to pretend that a shitty job isn't a shitty job. There are too many lawyers and law students already; let's be honest that most of them have made a mistake.


See, I agree with the latter (yes there are too many lawyers and law students and most went for the wrong reasons), but I still don't consider state court clerkships a "shitty job" if you strike out of BigLawl. If anything, they're a huge safety net ITE. Would I recommend doing one in some random state where you don't want to work? No. But it's certainly a FAR better job than doc review or unemployment.

For the record, I'm not a 0L and I'm not naive. But one thing I've learned is not to shit on jobs that are perfectly acceptable. It's insulting and immature and reeks of a superiority complex. Like I said, just be careful what types of jobs you insult because you never know where you'll end up working. Even if you get BigLawl to begin with. Ask everyone that was Latham'd.

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vamedic03
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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby vamedic03 » Wed May 25, 2011 10:56 pm

OldManHunger wrote:A state supreme court clerkship is the only worth it if you can't get anything better (federal clerkship or a market-paying job) AND you plan to live forever in that state. An appellate clerkship might let you make some connections, but it's still a mark of shame, and a trial court clerkship is barely a job. I only mention this because OCS, who want to boost schools' "clerkship" score for US News, tout all clerkships equally, and because TLS is an echo chamber of wish-fulfillment information. If you really can't do any better--proceed.


No. There are plenty of people at V10s who did state supreme court clerkships.

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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 25, 2011 11:07 pm

FWIW I met a 1st year associate at my v20 firm who came out of a t4 school and did a state court trial clerkship right out of school then landed the v20 gig right after without doing a 2L SA. I don't think the clerkship was barely a job for him.

Working for a judge at any level of court is a good job and if you say otherwise im guessing you are a 0L who doesn't know anything but TLS prestige nonsense.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Thu May 26, 2011 6:10 pm

vamedic03 wrote:No. There are plenty of people at V10s who did state supreme court clerkships.


Pre-ITE (unless they also did a 2L SA). Back when times were good, it wasn't uncommon for large firms to actively recruit as state supreme courts. I actually talked to some alumni who did state supreme court clerkships, in non-major market states, and then went on to top law firms in major markets. Many of them said these firms actually sent recruiting materials to the judge's chambers. But nowadays, even a lot of article III district court clerks aren't getting biglaw, so a state supreme court alone is not going to cut it.

Anonymous User wrote:FWIW I met a 1st year associate at my v20 firm who came out of a t4 school and did a state court trial clerkship right out of school then landed the v20 gig right after without doing a 2L SA. I don't think the clerkship was barely a job for him.


This is like the argument that you can be SCOTUS clerk after attending a TTT. Has it ever happened? Yeah probably. But is it extremely unlikely? Yes.

The odds of getting biglaw anywhere out of a state trial court clerkship is incredibly low ITE.

Geist13
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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby Geist13 » Fri May 27, 2011 12:40 am

Is there any particular reason why so many people on this board think the value of a clerkship is limited to $$ and job prospects? As if doing one is pointless if your firm won't give you a clerkship bonus for it. Do you all really think the experience is not inherently worthwhile? I really have no idea how working with a judge, assisting in opinion drafting and experiencing all sorts of aspects of litigation could be anything but incredibly valuable to your development as a lawyer, regardless of the level of prestige.

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Re: State court clerkships?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 27, 2011 2:37 am

keg411 wrote:
OldManHunger wrote:This is what I mean about wish-fulfillment echo chamber. If you are from a top law school, then working as an appellate level state court clerk is a mark of shame. Welcome to fucking reality, I shouldn't have to push your nose in it, but the OP asked "is it worth it," and this is the correct answer. I also said that if you can't do any better, proceed--the OP wasn't clear about whether he wanted to do a state clerkship because he didn't have other options or, instead, because he thought it would be a prestigious resume builder. Which it's not.


There is still no reason to degrade it as a "mark of shame" or "barely a job" just because it isn't Fed Court and it isn't presTTTigious. At least 40% of people at MVP are going to strike out at OCI; it's at least a way for them to get a job rather than cry and and be unemployed or do doc review. Obviously, if you have BigLaw it's not worth it, but OP never mentioned if he or she struck out at OCI or has BigLaw lined up.

Just be careful before you start degrading jobs. You never know if you are going to end up with a "mark of shame" on your own resume. All you had to say was, "if you have BigLaw lined up, it's probably not worth it since you likely won't get a clerkship bonus" (which is the truth and which has already been said ITT).


OP here - I don't know if I have biglaw lined up yet; I'm currently an SA in biglaw. *Knock on wood* I never really considered clerking, but now I am thinking about litigating more seriously. I mean, there has to be some value to researching and writing at the state level for litigation...researching and writing is researching and writing.

Does anyone think I have a shot at a federal clerkship somewhere? I am willing to move literally anywhere for a federal clerkship.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri May 27, 2011 3:03 am, edited 3 times in total.




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