Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

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Anonymous User
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Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 19, 2011 9:55 pm

Help.

I've had an internship with the California AG in place since about March. Got a note earlier today from federal judge's clerk asking if I'm still interested. A slot opened up.

I just called and left message that I'm interested. But, um, what do I do here? I don't want to burn bridges, but I really, really want to work for a judge.

Thoughts?

PS
I don't think any kind of split is allowed, since the AG wants me for 10 weeks. Then again, maybe if I tell 'em that I (may) have a fed judge lined up, they'll understand. Surely, they'll understand, right?

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Cupidity
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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby Cupidity » Thu May 19, 2011 9:59 pm

Insanely rude to ditch this late.

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zanda
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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby zanda » Thu May 19, 2011 10:01 pm

No, just no. Don't do it.

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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 19, 2011 10:06 pm

OP here.

I pretty much agree that it's bad form. I guess I was just hoping there's some weird loophole I can use where I can do this and not be a dick.

Oh well. I guess I'll tell the clerk to keep me in mind next time.

Renzo
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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby Renzo » Thu May 19, 2011 10:21 pm

Don't ditch the job. Hell, if I were the AG and you did, I'd call your judge and make sure you had neither job.

Sup Kid
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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby Sup Kid » Thu May 19, 2011 10:45 pm

Renzo wrote:Don't ditch the job. Hell, if I were the AG and you did, I'd call your judge and make sure you had neither job.

Gideon Strumpet
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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby Gideon Strumpet » Thu May 19, 2011 10:47 pm

It's ok to tell the judge you committed to something else already. It's not ok to dump a gig you committed to back in March. Also, a 1L judicial internship means far less than you imagine; in most chambers you're basically the clerk's clerk. Your experience at the AG will be just as good in any way that matters.

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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 19, 2011 10:57 pm

Honestly, you'll probably do more work and learn more with the AG. AG's offices are always busy. Judge's chambers can vary a lot. My federal judge had 2 clerks, 6 interns, and not that much work to go around.

Also, do not ditch at this late date. If you desperately want to try with the judge, contact the AG and see if they'd be at all willing to go down to 8 weeks. If they say no, live with it.

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northwood
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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby northwood » Thu May 19, 2011 11:16 pm

honor your commitments. You agreed to the position in March. Kindly inform the judge that while you are estatic to be in the running for the position, you have allready agreed to the AG office.

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IzziesGal
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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby IzziesGal » Fri May 20, 2011 12:50 am

Let the judge know you already have a position lined up, but are interested in an academic year internship opportunity. Most schools give units for externship hours.

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Rock-N-Roll
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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby Rock-N-Roll » Fri May 20, 2011 1:05 am

Just playing devil's advocate here: While it is certainly not nice, are posters here intimating that backing out of the internship at the AGs could be on the level of an ethical violation?

Could one possibly even argue that it might be understood that law students have to take advantage of the best learning and advancement experiences that they can get? Thereby the AG might not even be that upset.

After all, isn't it possible or even likely that the slot opened up with judge because someone backed out on him or her?

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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby Gideon Strumpet » Fri May 20, 2011 1:09 am

Rock-N-Roll wrote:Just playing devil's advocate here: While it is certainly not nice, are posters here intimating that backing out of the internship at the AGs could be on the level of an ethical violation?

No. But it will ruin your reputation, which is a lot worse.

Rock-N-Roll wrote:Could one possibly even argue that it might be understood that law students have to take advantage of the best learning and advancement experiences that they can get? Thereby the AG might not even be that upset.

You can argue this if you want. I guarantee you that they will not see it this way.

Rock-N-Roll wrote:After all, isn't it possible or even likely that the slot opened up with judge because someone backed out on him or her?

Why do you think this matters?

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Rock-N-Roll
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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby Rock-N-Roll » Fri May 20, 2011 1:17 am

Gideon Strumpet wrote:Why do you think this matters?


You're right. Not a strong point, but if another law school student may have done this then maybe it hints at the behavior not being totally uncommon.

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quakeroats
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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby quakeroats » Fri May 20, 2011 1:20 am

Ditch the old job and go with the new one. Tell the AG whatever you want as long as you don't mention where you're working now. This is of minor importance to all parties involved but you; there will be no repercussions.

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Rock-N-Roll
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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby Rock-N-Roll » Fri May 20, 2011 1:20 am

Gideon Strumpet wrote:You can argue this if you want. I guarantee you that they will not see it this way.


If this is the consensus, then that is too bad. It seems like things are pretty tough for law students as is.

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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby Younger Abstention » Fri May 20, 2011 1:26 am

If you aren't being paid by the AG, I'm not sure I see the problem with switching. People on this thread need to grow a pair; OP should be allowed to at least choose whose bitch he's going to be for 3 months.

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quakeroats
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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby quakeroats » Fri May 20, 2011 1:29 am

Rock-N-Roll wrote:
Gideon Strumpet wrote:You can argue this if you want. I guarantee you that they will not see it this way.


If this is the consensus, then that is too bad. It seems like things are pretty tough for law students as is.


I doubt they'd see it that way, but even if they did, who cares? They have neither the time nor the inclination to hunt down an unpaid intern. Do you think they keep a shit list of people who didn't show up for 1L summer?

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SemperLegal
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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby SemperLegal » Fri May 20, 2011 1:42 am

....

Edited for 0L

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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby Gideon Strumpet » Fri May 20, 2011 2:07 am

Younger Abstention wrote:If you aren't being paid by the AG, I'm not sure I see the problem with switching. People on this thread need to grow a pair; OP should be allowed to at least choose whose bitch he's going to be for 3 months.

Yeah. You have no idea how this works.

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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby Gideon Strumpet » Fri May 20, 2011 2:09 am

Rock-N-Roll wrote:If this is the consensus, then that is too bad. It seems like things are pretty tough for law students as is.

Well, to be clear: we're talking about someone who has a great job in hand. The advice is: don't be an idiot and screw it up . . . cause things are tough out there.

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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby Gideon Strumpet » Fri May 20, 2011 2:15 am

Rock-N-Roll wrote:You're right. Not a strong point, but if another law school student may have done this then maybe it hints at the behavior not being totally uncommon.

All sorts of stuff could have happened; sudden severe illness; office gets busy and doesn't get around to hiring until the last minute; they get more busy and decide they want a second intern; it's actually unlikely that the opening was caused by someone just randomly backing out to take another job. What's uncommon is for people to commit to summer jobs and then dump them for something else at the last minute . . . mostly because, well, that would be stupid. And it makes you look like a douche to people who will remember this when you're out looking for a real job.

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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby gobucks101 » Fri May 20, 2011 2:29 am

This is a 1L internship. Stick with what you have. First off, by ditching your job you would be dicking over other classmates who may apply for that position. You don't want to be the person who makes the AG think that they can't trust hiring someone from your school or that the school lacks the ability to instill ethics in its law students. Secondly, if the AG calls your school, how much help do you think you are going to get from career services during 2L year when you really may need them?

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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby quakeroats » Fri May 20, 2011 9:43 am

Gideon Strumpet wrote:
Rock-N-Roll wrote:You're right. Not a strong point, but if another law school student may have done this then maybe it hints at the behavior not being totally uncommon.

All sorts of stuff could have happened; sudden severe illness; office gets busy and doesn't get around to hiring until the last minute; they get more busy and decide they want a second intern; it's actually unlikely that the opening was caused by someone just randomly backing out to take another job. What's uncommon is for people to commit to summer jobs and then dump them for something else at the last minute . . . mostly because, well, that would be stupid. And it makes you look like a douche to people who will remember this when you're out looking for a real job.


So far, the reasons we have against taking the new job are:

1. It's bad form/rude/you've already made a commitment/this will come back to haunt you/it will hurt your classmates.
2. Interning might be a less enriching experience than working for the AG.

Only make your decision based on #2. Your conduct either way is perfectly lawful and violates no professional or honor-code rules that I've heard of. Have you looked at your school's honor code? If it's anything like mine, there's a lot of detail for just about every situation you could think of... except this one. Declining/rescinding a job offer accepted without a contract creates no liability for either party. I can assure you that it happens frequently enough to be addressed and that you should take omission as tacit approval. While I wouldn't give the AG much more than a vague sense that something's come up (the passive voice is fantastic here), nothing is going to happen to you. They won't call, they won't write, in fact, they won't know anything more than you tell them in a brief call/email that discloses no details. One of the common criticisms of practicing in major jurisdictions is that there are enough attorneys that the one you're currently opposing is unlikely to be someone you'll see again. This creates a few problems, but occasionally something good comes out of it--e.g. the lack of repercussions of your choice.

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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby Gideon Strumpet » Fri May 20, 2011 11:08 am

quakeroats wrote:Your conduct either way is perfectly lawful and violates no professional or honor-code rules that I've heard of.

And makes you look like an asshole.

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Re: Ditch state AG 1L summer for Fed Judge?

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Fri May 20, 2011 11:11 am

quakeroats wrote:
Gideon Strumpet wrote:
Rock-N-Roll wrote:You're right. Not a strong point, but if another law school student may have done this then maybe it hints at the behavior not being totally uncommon.

All sorts of stuff could have happened; sudden severe illness; office gets busy and doesn't get around to hiring until the last minute; they get more busy and decide they want a second intern; it's actually unlikely that the opening was caused by someone just randomly backing out to take another job. What's uncommon is for people to commit to summer jobs and then dump them for something else at the last minute . . . mostly because, well, that would be stupid. And it makes you look like a douche to people who will remember this when you're out looking for a real job.


So far, the reasons we have against taking the new job are:

1. It's bad form/rude/you've already made a commitment/this will come back to haunt you/it will hurt your classmates.
2. Interning might be a less enriching experience than working for the AG.

Only make your decision based on #2. Your conduct either way is perfectly lawful and violates no professional or honor-code rules that I've heard of. Have you looked at your school's honor code? If it's anything like mine, there's a lot of detail for just about every situation you could think of... except this one. Declining/rescinding a job offer accepted without a contract creates no liability for either party. I can assure you that it happens frequently enough to be addressed and that you should take omission as tacit approval. While I wouldn't give the AG much more than a vague sense that something's come up (the passive voice is fantastic here), nothing is going to happen to you. They won't call, they won't write, in fact, they won't know anything more than you tell them in a brief call/email that discloses no details. One of the common criticisms of practicing in major jurisdictions is that there are enough attorneys that the one you're currently opposing is unlikely to be someone you'll see again. This creates a few problems, but occasionally something good comes out of it--e.g. the lack of repercussions of your choice.

So because something isn't illegal and doesn't violate a professional honor code, that makes it acceptable? Why don't people rescind on judges for clerkships after they've been offered even though no legal liability arises or honor codes are breached? There are set patterns and practices of professional behavior, and to suggest otherwise simply because it's not illegal is far too short sighted. The entire first half of your post reads like a legal analysis while completely neglecting the reality that the every individual's career is driven by his professional reputation. While it's very possible that those particular bridges may not matter one bit in the future, sticking with the AG will probably provide just as worthwhile of an experience (this coming from somebody who interned for a federal judge last summer) and gets OP off on the right foot of sticking to his word. I don't think anybody is arguing that he can not rescind the acceptance, but only that he should not. Ramble over whether there's liability or an honor code breach all you want - OP's professional reputation matters, and it's time to be a big boy now.


Younger Abstention wrote:If you aren't being paid by the AG, I'm not sure I see the problem with switching. People on this thread need to grow a pair; OP should be allowed to at least choose whose bitch he's going to be for 3 months.

He did, when he called and accepted the AG's offer months ago.




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