What happened to the those who don't have jobs by end of 3L?

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notaznguy
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What happened to the those who don't have jobs by end of 3L?

Postby notaznguy » Fri May 13, 2011 11:33 pm

Naturally, reading TLS it seems like those who weren't in the top 5%-30% to make the big law cut off or enough to get an offer through OCI were essentially EFFED.

Now, I doubt 70%+ of a school's class is sitting at home contemplating suicide. So what happened to the rest of your classmates who didn't have job offers by 3L?

I'll be honest though. I work at a Legal Aid center in Los Angeles and it DOES look kinda bleak. I know 4 law students who either graduated or are about to graduate and didn't get an offer via OCI or any job offer for that matter.

1 of them was from U of San Diego, but the only reason he doesn't have a job is because he went to law school, hated it, and never intended to practice law. Then he took a 2-3 year break doing some random crap, and now decided to go back into it.

The other one is from Loyola Los Angeles, and I have no idea why he doesn't have a job. He's trying to be a cop now.

Another one is just graduating from a small, tier 3 trash school, but she supposedly has a job lined up with a small firm as soon as she graduates. Though...the "job" is not an associate position. It's more of a "legal assistant" job.

The last person went to UCLA and after passing the bar exam, really has no idea what to do. She's just randomly going online and applying for jobs.

This is just a small sample size from the people I know though, and I don't really know their full circumstances (i.e. what their grades and stuff were). But yeah, for the people in your school/class that don't get into big law or get job offers by 3L, what happens to them? Do they end up getting hired as an associate at a firm eventually? (within 9 months)

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prezidentv8
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Re: What happened to the those who don't have jobs by end of 3L?

Postby prezidentv8 » Fri May 13, 2011 11:41 pm

notaznguy wrote:So what happened to the rest of your classmates who didn't have job offers by 3L?


I plan on aimlessly wandering around Sonoma County for a while, then ?????????, then PROFIT.

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PKSebben
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Re: What happened to the those who don't have jobs by end of 3L?

Postby PKSebben » Fri May 13, 2011 11:45 pm

obvious answer is BOOTSTRAPS

adonai
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Re: What happened to the those who don't have jobs by end of 3L?

Postby adonai » Fri May 13, 2011 11:48 pm

They find jobs eventually. I've seen 20+ unemployed volunteers from various schools come and go throughout the year and most likely it is because they found jobs. People can still find jobs it is just that one isn't guaranteed out of graduation. It may take a few months of volunteering now but eventually it will happen. I am probably at the same legal aid you are currently.

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prezidentv8
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Re: What happened to the those who don't have jobs by end of 3L?

Postby prezidentv8 » Fri May 13, 2011 11:48 pm

adonai wrote:It may take a few months of volunteering now but eventually it will happen.


This is a necessary evil, but <puke>.

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Grizz
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Re: What happened to the those who don't have jobs by end of 3L?

Postby Grizz » Sat May 14, 2011 12:04 am

--ImageRemoved--

notaznguy
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Re: What happened to the those who don't have jobs by end of 3L?

Postby notaznguy » Sat May 14, 2011 12:16 am

Awe. So it takes a bit of time, but people DO eventually find relevant work to do.

Or based on the troll answers on this board, it appears contemplating suicide is the more popular option...

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Grizz
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Re: What happened to the those who don't have jobs by end of 3L?

Postby Grizz » Sat May 14, 2011 12:18 am

notaznguy wrote:Awe. So it takes a bit of time, but people DO eventually find relevant work to do.

Or based on the troll answers on this board, it appears contemplating suicide is the more popular option...

--ImageRemoved--

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vanwinkle
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Re: What happened to the those who don't have jobs by end of 3L?

Postby vanwinkle » Sat May 14, 2011 4:19 pm

rad law wrote:
notaznguy wrote:Awe. So it takes a bit of time, but people DO eventually find relevant work to do.

Or based on the troll answers on this board, it appears contemplating suicide is the more popular option...

--ImageRemoved--

I guess it's time to bring back this post:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=132905

notaznguy
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Re: What happened to the those who don't have jobs by end of 3L?

Postby notaznguy » Sat May 14, 2011 5:14 pm

Does anyone else have a serious answer? Only 1 post in this thread has been useful...

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PKSebben
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Re: What happened to the those who don't have jobs by end of 3L?

Postby PKSebben » Sat May 14, 2011 5:16 pm

notaznguy wrote:Does anyone else have a serious answer? Only 1 post in this thread has been useful...


seriously, bro -- what do you think they do? some keep looking for a job in law and eventually get one and others go into another field entirely. The one thing I feel confident in saying is that if you don't have a biglaw associate position at the end of 3L or shortly thereafter, you're pretty much out of the running for biglaw.

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SteelReserve
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Re: What happened to the those who don't have jobs by end of 3L?

Postby SteelReserve » Sun May 15, 2011 3:22 pm

The other one is from Loyola Los Angeles, and I have no idea why he doesn't have a job. He's trying to be a cop now.

Another one is just graduating from a small, tier 3 trash school, but she supposedly has a job lined up with a small firm as soon as she graduates. Though...the "job" is not an associate position. It's more of a "legal assistant" job.


As for the cop guy, he probably realized police officers, especially in CA, make wayyy more in terms of salary and benefits than any young non-biglawyer does. Smart move, IF he can find a department hiring.

The woman with a small firm assistant job, that makes sense because small firms generally don't hire entry-level; it doesn't fit the model; they don't have the # and type of clients that enables them to just bill out associates. She will probably be paid a low hourly salary to do the motion practice and legal research. Not bad provided she still wants to a be a lawyer and is OK with making little money for 10 years.

So yes to answer your question, things are very difficult for 3Ls who did not make the biglaw cut. The best option is state level clerkships which can help a lawyer get a job in the state where the clerkship is, but there's no guarantee at all.

Finally, yes, people just take jobs that don't require a JD! In essence aside from any (debatable) gain in knowledge/thinking skills from law school, and the intangible benefit of having a JD, for these people going to law school was a financial mistake and set them back 3 years in the career they end up starting in. That sucks, but it's just lost income, it's not like their lives are over due to IBR, they will never be forced to starve to repay loans.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: What happened to the those who don't have jobs by end of 3L?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Mon May 16, 2011 11:18 am

SteelReserve wrote:
As for the cop guy, he probably realized police officers, especially in CA, make wayyy more in terms of salary and benefits than any young non-biglawyer does. Smart move, IF he can find a department hiring.


Any state government work in Cali pays insanely high. Even public defenders in orange or San Bernardino county start around $70k /year. Not bad for a PD, considering in Chicago (cook county) they start at $49k /year.


SteelReserve wrote:Finally, yes, people just take jobs that don't require a JD! In essence aside from any (debatable) gain in knowledge/thinking skills from law school, and the intangible benefit of having a JD, for these people going to law school was a financial mistake and set them back 3 years in the career they end up starting in. That sucks, but it's just lost income, it's not like their lives are over due to IBR, they will never be forced to starve to repay loans.


They won’t starving to repay their loans, but I wouldn’t underestimate just how much of an additional burden having to repay 15% of your salary in loans for the next 25 years will be. I mean if these people make $60,000 /year, and sit at that salary, that’s nearly $9,000 /year out of their salaries that goes back into repaying loans for 25 years. That’s definitely not insignificant, especially when you factor out state and federal taxes, social security, medicare, Medicaid, health insurance, dental, and other deductions from that 60K /year. Furthermore, there is the massive burden of getting hit with the tax bill in 25 years, since the loan “forgiveness” counts as taxable income. So say a person makes the 15% payments for 25 years, and their principal balloons to something like $700,000 by the end of 25 years (not completely unrealistic if he borrowed $200k now and didn’t make very good money for those 25 years), then that’s a tax bill on $700,000 of additional income that one year. If that person didn’t save up money all along to account for that, I would imagine that tax bill might mean selling assets (such as their house) and potentially even going into bankruptcy after 25 years of working. (Of course, everyone jumping on this plan now hopes the tax bill part of IBR will go away 25 years from now, but the exact opposite is completely possible as well – IBR gets phased out because tax payers don’t like the idea of paying for all these “rich” lawyers’ educations by the time these loans are about to get forgiven). Law school is undeniably a HUGE mistake for these people.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: What happened to the those who don't have jobs by end of 3L?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon May 16, 2011 11:24 am

People find jobs. While the jobs generally aren't NL250/fed gov (although it happens, particularly in the south), the jobs are in mid size firms, smaller firms, city gov, state gov., public interest firms, and solo shops.

On a side note, there seems to be a growing sector of non-legal jobs that seem to find the JD particularly desirable (compliance and so forth).




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