How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner? Forum

[FlanAl]

Hey seatown, thanks again for all the help. NYC is actually what I would be interested in. Any thoughts on the level of competition for these spots? Is it like ACLU NRDC type competitive or kind of just standard PD competitive ?

[cesmoc]

I'm a rising 2L gunning for a PD position. I go to a school in the Philly area and I have spoken with the Defender association about their hiring situation. It's not technically a hiring freeze but they did not hire an incoming class for this year. It is really touch and go with their budget and they told me they aren't sure if they will hire for the class of 2013. That being said, they do normally hire a class of new PDs every year so there is hope if they get mote funding.

[FlanAl]

Hey thanks for the info man! Any other insider tips like that for any city would probably really help this thread out.

[seatown12]

Hey seatown, thanks again for all the help. NYC is actually what I would be interested in. Any thoughts on the level of competition for these spots? Is it like ACLU NRDC type competitive or kind of just standard PD competitive ?

If you want NYC you need to gun for an internship as a 2L because the main difference I have noticed is that those are the only offices who care about ties. I think because so many randoms want NY they try to select people who have some legitimate commitment to the city, and your best option to demonstrate that, assuming you aren't from there, is to do an internship.

[brassmonkey7]

To piggyback on seatown, I'm at an NYC PD and our full timers almost all interned here at some point be it over the summer or during the year. Not everyone in our summer intern class is from the area or goes to school here though so you can definitely establish ties through an internship. As far as competition goes, our class was definitely competitive but I think even in NYC commitment is still the #1 factor though you will see a lot more T14s, including national ones, than you might see in other jurisdictions. Feel free to pm me for more info.

[adonai]

Does anyone know if fed. ct. experience is looked favorably upon in PD hiring? I'd imagine the writing experience might help for appellate divisions. I'm doing an internship with a fed judge right now, and also have one next semester that I cannot get out of. Wondering if these internships would just be glossed over. Also, does anyone have any news as to So Cal PD hiring?

[SchopenhauerFTW]

I'm interested in this subject. So, if I'm understanding correctly, if you are gunning for a DA/PD one would want to:

1) Take crim & trial ad courses
2) Intern @ a DA/PD office, preferably at one you'd like to work in
3) Clerk at a trial level court

Am I missing anything?

Other helpful things:
1) Relevant clinics
2) Relevant publications
3) Other public service, including volunteering.
4) Moot court

TYVM

This is exactly what I needed.

[Borhas]

Also learn Spanish

[SchopenhauerFTW]

Also learn Spanish

Credited.

[FlanAl]

any thoughts on the necessity of core courses like tax, biz orgs or admin if you want to do crim work?

[Tanicius]

any thoughts on the necessity of core courses like tax, biz orgs or admin if you want to do crim work?

I plan on taking a few of those just because it's handy knowledge to have in almost any walk of life. Also, let's face it - if you don't get hired as a PD after graduation, solo'ing or joining a small firm becomes the most realistic backup plan, and you'll have to know some of that stuff.

[Altanis]

Everyone should take Business Associations -- even wannabe prosecutors. My experience has been that every attorney ends up in a situation where a sibling/parent/spouse/boyfriend/friend (or maybe even you personally) gets into a small-business venture and needs some basic legal assistance. Plus Corps and P-Ship are both MEE subjects.

Previous poster's comment about small-firm fallback is also spot-on. Graduating right now and thinking you are guaranteed to land a prosecuting job the minute you pass the bar is pretty crazy, so have a backup maybe.

[thomas92]

I'm potentially interested in criminal work, but my resume (and grades) SCREAM civil lit. I feel like being undecided on exactly what type of law I want to practice is much more detrimental when it comes to criminal work, because I don't have any shown interest in it through jobs, etc. yet. Any tips?

Hi, 0L here. Forgive me if this is a bit of a naive question, but what do you mean when you say your grades scream civil litigation? I'm currently interning at a civil litigation firm and am curious if you're implying that this work is easier/harder to secure based off law school grades.

Thanks!

[Tanicius]

I'm potentially interested in criminal work, but my resume (and grades) SCREAM civil lit. I feel like being undecided on exactly what type of law I want to practice is much more detrimental when it comes to criminal work, because I don't have any shown interest in it through jobs, etc. yet. Any tips?

Hi, 0L here. Forgive me if this is a bit of a naive question, but what do you mean when you say your grades scream civil litigation? I'm currently interning at a civil litigation firm and am curious if you're implying that this work is easier/harder to secure based off law school grades.

Thanks!

He means he's performing better in the classes that are civil-side practice and that his experience is mostly all in civil work rather than in the criminal field. That paints a picture of someone who is more interested in civil-side practice and will bail from a criminal office if they get the chance to pursue something they might like better in the civil field.

[FlanAl]

Any thoughts on how to utilize OCI as interview practice? I'm really not very interested in big law (firms aren't going to be busting down my door with my grades either) but I figured it would be good practice before the EJW fair, want to keep as many employment options etc.. Would bidding firms way out of range just to go in for the interview be good practice?

[akili]

Any thoughts on how to utilize OCI as interview practice? I'm really not very interested in big law (firms aren't going to be busting down my door with my grades either) but I figured it would be good practice before the EJW fair, want to keep as many employment options etc.. Would bidding firms way out of range just to go in for the interview be good practice?

I don't have a great answer (rising 2L too) but I'm doing OCI to see what happens and it seemed good to keep the door open.

I wanted to ask too, what have you heard about EJW? (I used the search function but didn't find much) It seems like a great opportunity but do people really get internships out of it?

[Ikki]

Anyone had to deal with a background check for the summer?

I did, I'm a 1L summer at a DA's office and they even conducted a credit check. I have a shit load of moving violations (20+) and I was still hired for the summer. No arrests though.

[Altanis]

I am not sure OCI would give you much relevant practice interviewing for a prosecutor job. I did close to half a dozen OCI interviews and four callbacks and all were much more pampered, geared-toward-socializing, let's-go-to-dinner-and-chat type things than any of my state or federal prosecutor interviews have been.

Most (overwhelming majority?) of prosecuting job interviews are going to be heavily structured and professional and involve people asking questions to determine your aptitude, reasoning, and ability to think on your feet. Long story short, firm interviews are looking to see whether you're a good fit socially. Firms take you to dinner; prosecutors sit in four-person panels and grill you with question to see how you hold up under pressure.

YMMV.

[Anonymous User]

I am not sure OCI would give you much relevant practice interviewing for a prosecutor job. I did close to half a dozen OCI interviews and four callbacks and all were much more pampered, geared-toward-socializing, let's-go-to-dinner-and-chat type things than any of my state or federal prosecutor interviews have been.

Most (overwhelming majority?) of prosecuting job interviews are going to be heavily structured and professional and involve people asking questions to determine your aptitude, reasoning, and ability to think on your feet. Long story short, firm interviews are looking to see whether you're a good fit socially. Firms take you to dinner; prosecutors sit in four-person panels and grill you with question to see how you hold up under pressure.

YMMV.

I'd agree with this, and at the firms that are out of your range, they won't even treat it like an interview. It'll be pretty apparent from the beginning that they think you're wasting their time.

[Anonymous User]

My heart skipped a beat. The DA office I'm clerking at (2L summer, county next to major market [think like Rockland/New York Riverside/LA or Lake County/Chicago]) put up an OCI spot for post grad clerk->DDA1. Obviously going to bid. Any recommendations on cover letter crafting / intraoffice networking?

[forty-two]

My heart skipped a beat. The DA office I'm clerking at (2L summer, county next to major market [think like Rockland/New York Riverside/LA or Lake County/Chicago]) put up an OCI spot for post grad clerk->DDA1. Obviously going to bid. Any recommendations on cover letter crafting / intraoffice networking?

That's exciting! Do you work under one or two attorneys at your office? If so, I'd recommend letting them know that you're interested in the position and asking general questions about the hiring process and what new hires do at the office. I'd also recommend getting to know as many attorneys in your office as possible, including those on the hiring committee. As for the cover letter, I would probably focus on your summer there, why you want to be a prosecutor, and why you want to work at that office in particular. Good luck!

[target]

My heart skipped a beat. The DA office I'm clerking at (2L summer, county next to major market [think like Rockland/New York Riverside/LA or Lake County/Chicago]) put up an OCI spot for post grad clerk->DDA1. Obviously going to bid. Any recommendations on cover letter crafting / intraoffice networking?

ditto the the post above mine. I will also ask what they look for in their hiring process. If you are a straightshooter, I will also advise to ask them if they think you are a strong candidate.

[los blancos]

Any thoughts on how to utilize OCI as interview practice? I'm really not very interested in big law (firms aren't going to be busting down my door with my grades either) but I figured it would be good practice before the EJW fair, want to keep as many employment options etc.. Would bidding firms way out of range just to go in for the interview be good practice?

Any particular reason why you're not interested in big law?

I will say this: I almost didn't even do OCI because I was so hell-bent on criminal prosecution that I didn't even want to interview for big firm jobs. I decided at to do OCI for practice. I ended up getting dinged almost everywhere (I'm assuming because my lack of interest in places where I would have to bill 2500 hours shone through)... except I greatly enjoyed a screening interview with two associates from a smaller biglaw firm. Ended up getting a callback. Ended up with an SA. Have been greatly enjoying it so far, and I can't see myself anywhere else if I get an offer.

Do OCI...
1) for practice. Others have stated the interviewing style isn't the same and won't be very applicable to DA's offices and the like. They're right. But OCI will still help you learn how to talk about yourself.
2) because you never know what'll happen and what you'll find, especially if you bid a few smaller firms or biglaw firms in secondary markets.

[akili]

I tried searching, but couldn't really find anything.

How important is it to have ties for DA/PD/other gov't./PI jobs?

For example, I love Colorado. Is it a waste of time to send applications that way if I've never lived or gone to school there?

[eandy]

I really only have experience with GA offices but it seems like major cities don't care about ties *as much* but rural and suburban counties absolutely do. I think that also, with the demand there is, they can afford to care about ties. My office gets about 100 applications a month for attorney jobs even though they aren't even hiring.