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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:51 pm
by akili
For 2L summer hiring, when should I start applying to DA/PD offices?


When classes start?

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:02 pm
by Jeremyl
akili wrote:For 2L summer hiring, when should I start applying to DA/PD offices?


When classes start?


I got my 1l summer one after applying over Christmas break.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:15 pm
by seatown12
akili wrote:For 2L summer hiring, when should I start applying to DA/PD offices? When classes start?

Ya, unless the office website says something different.

It's not at all the same timeline as 1L.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:18 pm
by akili
seatown12 wrote:
akili wrote:For 2L summer hiring, when should I start applying to DA/PD offices? When classes start?

Ya, unless the office website says something different.

It's not at all the same timeline as 1L.


That's what I figured. Would calling be the best way to see when/how I should apply? I feel like I waited too late for this summer and missed some opportunities and I do not want that happening for next summer.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:54 pm
by Jeremyl
akili wrote:
seatown12 wrote:
akili wrote:For 2L summer hiring, when should I start applying to DA/PD offices? When classes start?

Ya, unless the office website says something different.

It's not at all the same timeline as 1L.


That's what I figured. Would calling be the best way to see when/how I should apply? I feel like I waited too late for this summer and missed some opportunities and I do not want that happening for next summer.


If they don't post on symplicity, I think calling would be fine. you should also try to find some attorneys in the office that went to your school, and email them. I was fortunate enough to have some connections to the office I interned for, but I would think those ways are how I would do it without connections. Career services may also know who to contact, so I would check with them first.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:27 am
by Void
My school had a presentation on working in the public sector, and the chief prosecutor and public defender were there. The message they conveyed was basically that in order to get a job at either office, we should expect to work for free (post-graduation) for a long time. As you might expect, my state's government budget is not doing so well. Are things this dire around you guys?

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:24 am
by NoleinNY
Void: where do you go to school / what state? (maybe PM if you're not comfortable posting outright.)

Jeremy+thread: Beyond symplicity, look on the agency's website. All the local DA offices in SoCal so it (e.g., LA, OC, IE, Ventura, etc.)

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:39 am
by adonai
Void wrote:My school had a presentation on working in the public sector, and the chief prosecutor and public defender were there. The message they conveyed was basically that in order to get a job at either office, we should expect to work for free (post-graduation) for a long time. As you might expect, my state's government budget is not doing so well. Are things this dire around you guys?

Heard for LA, the DAs office supposedly took 35 this year after not hiring for the past few years. A majority, if not all, went to those who have been working for free since hiring froze, and I'm sure not even all those individuals got a spot. Apps numbered in the high thousands. I think biglaw is a more realistic dream ITE.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:47 am
by seancris
NoleinNY wrote:Void: where do you go to school / what state? (maybe PM if you're not comfortable posting outright.)


+1

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:01 am
by Void
NoleinNY wrote:Void: where do you go to school / what state? (maybe PM if you're not comfortable posting outright.)

Jeremy+thread: Beyond symplicity, look on the agency's website. All the local DA offices in SoCal so it (e.g., LA, OC, IE, Ventura, etc.)


Connecticut.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:02 am
by Void
adonai wrote:
Void wrote:My school had a presentation on working in the public sector, and the chief prosecutor and public defender were there. The message they conveyed was basically that in order to get a job at either office, we should expect to work for free (post-graduation) for a long time. As you might expect, my state's government budget is not doing so well. Are things this dire around you guys?

Heard for LA, the DAs office supposedly took 35 this year after not hiring for the past few years. A majority, if not all, went to those who have been working for free since hiring froze, and I'm sure not even all those individuals got a spot. Apps numbered in the high thousands. I think biglaw is a more realistic dream ITE.


Around here, biglaw (well, more like midlaw) is definitely more realistic because it's actually possible!

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:20 am
by adonai
Void wrote:
adonai wrote:
Void wrote:My school had a presentation on working in the public sector, and the chief prosecutor and public defender were there. The message they conveyed was basically that in order to get a job at either office, we should expect to work for free (post-graduation) for a long time. As you might expect, my state's government budget is not doing so well. Are things this dire around you guys?

Heard for LA, the DAs office supposedly took 35 this year after not hiring for the past few years. A majority, if not all, went to those who have been working for free since hiring froze, and I'm sure not even all those individuals got a spot. Apps numbered in the high thousands. I think biglaw is a more realistic dream ITE.


Around here, biglaw (well, more like midlaw) is definitely more realistic because it's actually possible!

To even be considered now, it is basically a pre-req to have interned every summer and during the school year in the county you want to be in. Really sucks for those who decided midway they wanted to be a DA because they're already less competitive than hundreds who have done so. That is what a DA who spoke at my school more or less told us.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:33 am
by Void
adonai wrote:
Void wrote:
adonai wrote:
Void wrote:My school had a presentation on working in the public sector, and the chief prosecutor and public defender were there. The message they conveyed was basically that in order to get a job at either office, we should expect to work for free (post-graduation) for a long time. As you might expect, my state's government budget is not doing so well. Are things this dire around you guys?

Heard for LA, the DAs office supposedly took 35 this year after not hiring for the past few years. A majority, if not all, went to those who have been working for free since hiring froze, and I'm sure not even all those individuals got a spot. Apps numbered in the high thousands. I think biglaw is a more realistic dream ITE.


Around here, biglaw (well, more like midlaw) is definitely more realistic because it's actually possible!

To even be considered now, it is basically a pre-req to have interned every summer and during the school year in the county you want to be in. Really sucks for those who decided midway they wanted to be a DA because they're already less competitive than hundreds who have done so. That is what a DA who spoke at my school more or less told us.


That seems reasonable though. Being expected to volunteer after graduation (once your loan bills start rolling in) seems a lot rougher. I think the reality around here is that if you want prosecutor/PD and you don't want to starve to death, you have to get real litigation experience somewhere else first. I.e. the best way to gun for the job might be to gun for a different job that will funnel you in the right direction 2-5 years down the line.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:39 am
by seatown12
akili wrote:That's what I figured. Would calling be the best way to see when/how I should apply? I feel like I waited too late for this summer and missed some opportunities and I do not want that happening for next summer.

In my experience the website pretty much always lists what to send and to whom, but if you can't find it that way then calling is probably best. Definitely check the website first though because the hiring person is likely an attorney and might not be available or especially excited to take a call.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:02 am
by forty-two
seatown12 wrote:
akili wrote:That's what I figured. Would calling be the best way to see when/how I should apply? I feel like I waited too late for this summer and missed some opportunities and I do not want that happening for next summer.

In my experience the website pretty much always lists what to send and to whom, but if you can't find it that way then calling is probably best. Definitely check the website first though because the hiring person is likely an attorney and might not be available or especially excited to take a call.

+1 and if they don't have a website, I'd ask your CSO. Also, time lines really vary. For instance, a lot of places hired very early and participated in OCI, but my January application was on the early side for the offices I targeted (they apparently did most of their hiring in February).

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:55 am
by target
forty-two wrote:
seatown12 wrote:
akili wrote:That's what I figured. Would calling be the best way to see when/how I should apply? I feel like I waited too late for this summer and missed some opportunities and I do not want that happening for next summer.

In my experience the website pretty much always lists what to send and to whom, but if you can't find it that way then calling is probably best. Definitely check the website first though because the hiring person is likely an attorney and might not be available or especially excited to take a call.

+1 and if they don't have a website, I'd ask your CSO. Also, time lines really vary. For instance, a lot of places hired very early and participated in OCI, but my January application was on the early side for the offices I targeted (they apparently did most of their hiring in February).


I want to qualify on the ask your CSO part. You should ask them only if your school is in the area/state that you want to work in. Otherwise, you are better off just call the office and ask them directly.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:27 pm
by forty-two
target wrote:
forty-two wrote:
seatown12 wrote:
akili wrote:That's what I figured. Would calling be the best way to see when/how I should apply? I feel like I waited too late for this summer and missed some opportunities and I do not want that happening for next summer.

In my experience the website pretty much always lists what to send and to whom, but if you can't find it that way then calling is probably best. Definitely check the website first though because the hiring person is likely an attorney and might not be available or especially excited to take a call.

+1 and if they don't have a website, I'd ask your CSO. Also, time lines really vary. For instance, a lot of places hired very early and participated in OCI, but my January application was on the early side for the offices I targeted (they apparently did most of their hiring in February).


I want to qualify on the ask your CSO part. You should ask them only if your school is in the area/state that you want to work in. Otherwise, you are better off just call the office and ask them directly.

Oh yes, this...thanks for clarifying. My CSO knew the hiring time lines for the offices in my state, but they would have been useless if I had wanted to work anywhere else. I was mainly just agreeing with seatown that it's probably best to try to figure out this information on your own before calling, especially if the office's hiring schedule is easily accessible.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:45 pm
by Anonymous User
San Diego PD offers for post-bar clerks came out recently. Several hundred applicants, 15 ultimately chosen. About 2/3 came from local schools, the rest from other schools (but people who interned with their local PD all of law school).

The MOST important thing is to get in to a PD (or DA) office 1L summer and stay with them the entire time you are in law school. Do not work for the other side. Do not take semesters off. Find out who is on the hiring committee and get to know them. These positions are insanely competitive.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:38 pm
by Void
Anonymous User wrote:San Diego PD offers for post-bar clerks came out recently. Several hundred applicants, 15 ultimately chosen. About 2/3 came from local schools, the rest from other schools (but people who interned with their local PD all of law school).

The MOST important thing is to get in to a PD (or DA) office 1L summer and stay with them the entire time you are in law school. Do not work for the other side. Do not take semesters off. Find out who is on the hiring committee and get to know them. These positions are insanely competitive.


I totally agree that people should be doing their absolute best to build connections with DA/PD offices, but what if we're putting too many eggs in one basket? For instance, what is going to happen to the several hundred people who didn't get offers in San Diego? Assuming that many of them made sure their resumes were overloaded with PD internships (as you suggest), where can they find work now that they've been rejected by the PD?

I can tell you from first-hand experience that it's pretty freaking hard to find a job outside of a field to which (as your resume reveals) you've totally devoted yourself. You don't want to be stuck hearing this at every single interview: "You seem like a great guy/girl, but we think you'd be much happier working at the Public Defender's Office." There must be a way to make yourself as attractive a DA/PD candidate as possible and also keep a Plan B on the back burner.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:08 pm
by adonai
Void wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:San Diego PD offers for post-bar clerks came out recently. Several hundred applicants, 15 ultimately chosen. About 2/3 came from local schools, the rest from other schools (but people who interned with their local PD all of law school).

The MOST important thing is to get in to a PD (or DA) office 1L summer and stay with them the entire time you are in law school. Do not work for the other side. Do not take semesters off. Find out who is on the hiring committee and get to know them. These positions are insanely competitive.


I totally agree that people should be doing their absolute best to build connections with DA/PD offices, but what if we're putting too many eggs in one basket? For instance, what is going to happen to the several hundred people who didn't get offers in San Diego? Assuming that many of them made sure their resumes were overloaded with PD internships (as you suggest), where can they find work now that they've been rejected by the PD?

I can tell you from first-hand experience that it's pretty freaking hard to find a job outside of a field to which (as your resume reveals) you've totally devoted yourself. You don't want to be stuck hearing this at every single interview: "You seem like a great guy/girl, but we think you'd be much happier working at the Public Defender's Office." There must be a way to make yourself as attractive a DA/PD candidate as possible and also keep a Plan B on the back burner.

I could see how you could spin the PD interest into private criminal defense or public interest. I know FPDs used to take a lot of PI laterals who didn't have clerkship experiences. Not sure if that is the case now though. I think PD dedicated experience is a lot easier to spin than DA for other jobs.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:33 pm
by Jeremyl
I think it is really dependent on how well your state is handling the recession, and California from what understand has been one of the worst hit. I'm in Texas, and I think we are doing relatively well. The only major county I heard of with a sustained hiring freeze was Harris (Houston), and that got lifted last year. There are reports from our comptroller that things should be back to pre-recession levels by 2014. Now I'm not sure if that includes private legal sector hiring, but I assume it will be good news for government hiring (hopefully).

I think if one doesn't get their dream office, there will be better chances at getting into a rural office. Now of course that wouldn't be ideal for a lot of us, but from what I understand you will get more responsibility and higher level cases earlier than you would at a major city office. The big offices here will make you work misdemeanors for a couple years before felonies, and smaller offices will give you the chance to get to felonies faster. And after a couple years and once the economy improves, you could always lateral offices. At least that is my optimistic outlook. Take it as you please

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:52 am
by Void
Jeremyl wrote:I think it is really dependent on how well your state is handling the recession, and California from what understand has been one of the worst hit. I'm in Texas, and I think we are doing relatively well. The only major county I heard of with a sustained hiring freeze was Harris (Houston), and that got lifted last year. There are reports from our comptroller that things should be back to pre-recession levels by 2014. Now I'm not sure if that includes private legal sector hiring, but I assume it will be good news for government hiring (hopefully).

I think if one doesn't get their dream office, there will be better chances at getting into a rural office. Now of course that wouldn't be ideal for a lot of us, but from what I understand you will get more responsibility and higher level cases earlier than you would at a major city office. The big offices here will make you work misdemeanors for a couple years before felonies, and smaller offices will give you the chance to get to felonies faster. And after a couple years and once the economy improves, you could always lateral offices. At least that is my optimistic outlook. Take it as you please


Meanwhile, in my state, we hear (true) tales of people who graduated law school in 2007/08 who have been volunteering at the prosecutor's office ever since, desperately hoping that someone will retire so they can snatch up ANY paying opportunity, at any office. I guess if I could stomach the weather, isolation, and politics of Texas I might have a brighter future, but sadly I cannot.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:21 am
by flcath
Void wrote:
Jeremyl wrote:I think it is really dependent on how well your state is handling the recession, and California from what understand has been one of the worst hit. I'm in Texas, and I think we are doing relatively well. The only major county I heard of with a sustained hiring freeze was Harris (Houston), and that got lifted last year. There are reports from our comptroller that things should be back to pre-recession levels by 2014. Now I'm not sure if that includes private legal sector hiring, but I assume it will be good news for government hiring (hopefully).

I think if one doesn't get their dream office, there will be better chances at getting into a rural office. Now of course that wouldn't be ideal for a lot of us, but from what I understand you will get more responsibility and higher level cases earlier than you would at a major city office. The big offices here will make you work misdemeanors for a couple years before felonies, and smaller offices will give you the chance to get to felonies faster. And after a couple years and once the economy improves, you could always lateral offices. At least that is my optimistic outlook. Take it as you please


Meanwhile, in my state, we hear (true) tales of people who graduated law school in 2007/08 who have been volunteering at the prosecutor's office ever since, desperately hoping that someone will retire so they can snatch up ANY paying opportunity, at any office. I guess if I could stomach the weather, isolation, and politics of Texas I might have a brighter future, but sadly I cannot.

What does this mean? They're obviously working somewhere; in law? Waitressing?

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:30 am
by Void
flcath wrote:
Void wrote:
Jeremyl wrote:I think it is really dependent on how well your state is handling the recession, and California from what understand has been one of the worst hit. I'm in Texas, and I think we are doing relatively well. The only major county I heard of with a sustained hiring freeze was Harris (Houston), and that got lifted last year. There are reports from our comptroller that things should be back to pre-recession levels by 2014. Now I'm not sure if that includes private legal sector hiring, but I assume it will be good news for government hiring (hopefully).

I think if one doesn't get their dream office, there will be better chances at getting into a rural office. Now of course that wouldn't be ideal for a lot of us, but from what I understand you will get more responsibility and higher level cases earlier than you would at a major city office. The big offices here will make you work misdemeanors for a couple years before felonies, and smaller offices will give you the chance to get to felonies faster. And after a couple years and once the economy improves, you could always lateral offices. At least that is my optimistic outlook. Take it as you please


Meanwhile, in my state, we hear (true) tales of people who graduated law school in 2007/08 who have been volunteering at the prosecutor's office ever since, desperately hoping that someone will retire so they can snatch up ANY paying opportunity, at any office. I guess if I could stomach the weather, isolation, and politics of Texas I might have a brighter future, but sadly I cannot.

What does this mean? They're obviously working somewhere; in law? Waitressing?


Working? Yes. In law? nope.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:33 pm
by Anonymous User
Void wrote:
flcath wrote:
Void wrote:
Jeremyl wrote:I think it is really dependent on how well your state is handling the recession, and California from what understand has been one of the worst hit. I'm in Texas, and I think we are doing relatively well. The only major county I heard of with a sustained hiring freeze was Harris (Houston), and that got lifted last year. There are reports from our comptroller that things should be back to pre-recession levels by 2014. Now I'm not sure if that includes private legal sector hiring, but I assume it will be good news for government hiring (hopefully).

I think if one doesn't get their dream office, there will be better chances at getting into a rural office. Now of course that wouldn't be ideal for a lot of us, but from what I understand you will get more responsibility and higher level cases earlier than you would at a major city office. The big offices here will make you work misdemeanors for a couple years before felonies, and smaller offices will give you the chance to get to felonies faster. And after a couple years and once the economy improves, you could always lateral offices. At least that is my optimistic outlook. Take it as you please


Meanwhile, in my state, we hear (true) tales of people who graduated law school in 2007/08 who have been volunteering at the prosecutor's office ever since, desperately hoping that someone will retire so they can snatch up ANY paying opportunity, at any office. I guess if I could stomach the weather, isolation, and politics of Texas I might have a brighter future, but sadly I cannot.

What does this mean? They're obviously working somewhere; in law? Waitressing?


Working? Yes. In law? nope.


Definitely time to leave the state.