How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

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target
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby target » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:55 pm

reformed calvinist wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Local DA office called me earlier today while I was in class and now it's after business hours (I'll just call back when I know they're there.) Already interviewed with them, now the head of a division I'm interested wants to talk. No clue if it's an offer, a phone interview, or arrangement for further interview. All I now is I am damn excited and damn nervous!


What are DA office interviews generally like? I have one coming up soon.


You should be prepared to answer questions like why DA office/prosecution work? Why here? Why not PD? And what do you want to gain out of this internship?

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:48 pm

Ok, so as we all know, internships at firms (especially on the biglaw level) often result in employment following graduation. How do internships at PD/DA offices impact future employment? I assume that you're not a shoe-in like you are as a biglaw intern.

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Tanicius
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Tanicius » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Ok, so as we all know, internships at firms (especially on the biglaw level) often result in employment following graduation. How do internships at PD/DA offices impact future employment? I assume that you're not a shoe-in like you are as a biglaw intern.


Alameda County DA is literally the only DA/PD office I have ever heard of that "offers" based on a summer internship.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:44 pm

Tanicius wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Ok, so as we all know, internships at firms (especially on the biglaw level) often result in employment following graduation. How do internships at PD/DA offices impact future employment? I assume that you're not a shoe-in like you are as a biglaw intern.


Alameda County DA is literally the only DA/PD office I have ever heard of that "offers" based on a summer internship.


Yeah, I figured it wasn't automatic, but would you say that you stand a "very good" chance of an offer if you want it? I suppose it depend on the office.

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Tanicius
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Tanicius » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Ok, so as we all know, internships at firms (especially on the biglaw level) often result in employment following graduation. How do internships at PD/DA offices impact future employment? I assume that you're not a shoe-in like you are as a biglaw intern.


Alameda County DA is literally the only DA/PD office I have ever heard of that "offers" based on a summer internship.


Yeah, I figured it wasn't automatic, but would you say that you stand a "very good" chance of an offer if you want it? I suppose it depend on the office.


At the vast majority of offices, I would say the answer is no. That's what makes this career such a scare these days. You really have no reliable employment opportunities until you pass the Bar.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:13 pm

Tanicius wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Ok, so as we all know, internships at firms (especially on the biglaw level) often result in employment following graduation. How do internships at PD/DA offices impact future employment? I assume that you're not a shoe-in like you are as a biglaw intern.


Alameda County DA is literally the only DA/PD office I have ever heard of that "offers" based on a summer internship.


Yeah, I figured it wasn't automatic, but would you say that you stand a "very good" chance of an offer if you want it? I suppose it depend on the office.


At the vast majority of offices, I would say the answer is no. That's what makes this career such a scare these days. You really have no reliable employment opportunities until you pass the Bar.


One MAJOR drawback of public interest internships.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Ok, so as we all know, internships at firms (especially on the biglaw level) often result in employment following graduation. How do internships at PD/DA offices impact future employment? I assume that you're not a shoe-in like you are as a biglaw intern.



Well what it does is that it shows them that you're very interested and with prosecution jobs, that's EVERYTHING. (I have no experience with defense jobs, but I imagine it's the same thing.)

Also, I heard that if you summer in Manhattan DA, you're guaranteed a first round interview. So there's that.

So yes, there are no assurances, but it certainly does help a lot.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Ok, so as we all know, internships at firms (especially on the biglaw level) often result in employment following graduation. How do internships at PD/DA offices impact future employment? I assume that you're not a shoe-in like you are as a biglaw intern.



Well what it does is that it shows them that you're very interested and with prosecution jobs, that's EVERYTHING. (I have no experience with defense jobs, but I imagine it's the same thing.)

Also, I heard that if you summer in Manhattan DA, you're guaranteed a first round interview. So there's that.

So yes, there are no assurances, but it certainly does help a lot.


It would be interesting to see what percentage of interns at big/mid-size cities actually end up getting offers.

Jeremyl
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Jeremyl » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:44 pm

A lot of offices only hire out from their intern pool

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Tanicius
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Tanicius » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:26 pm

Jeremyl wrote:A lot of offices only hire out from their intern pool



What offices that you know of? Legitimately curious.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:53 pm

Tanicius wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Ok, so as we all know, internships at firms (especially on the biglaw level) often result in employment following graduation. How do internships at PD/DA offices impact future employment? I assume that you're not a shoe-in like you are as a biglaw intern.


Alameda County DA is literally the only DA/PD office I have ever heard of that "offers" based on a summer internship.



This isn't quite true. I worked there this past summer. You're told whether or not you will be recommended for hire, but you don't leave with an offer. You may end up with an offer before the buy, but you still wait about a year to find out. And in the previous 3-4 years they only hired 2-4 per summer intern class.

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Tanicius
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Tanicius » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Ok, so as we all know, internships at firms (especially on the biglaw level) often result in employment following graduation. How do internships at PD/DA offices impact future employment? I assume that you're not a shoe-in like you are as a biglaw intern.


Alameda County DA is literally the only DA/PD office I have ever heard of that "offers" based on a summer internship.



This isn't quite true. I worked there this past summer. You're told whether or not you will be recommended for hire, but you don't leave with an offer. You may end up with an offer before the buy, but you still wait about a year to find out. And in the previous 3-4 years they only hired 2-4 per summer intern class.


It's still an intern-based hiring model, but your point is important. It just goes to emphasize how rare it is that you can reliably secure employment for this jobs before graduation.

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bilbobaggins
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby bilbobaggins » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:03 pm

Tanicius wrote:
Jeremyl wrote:A lot of offices only hire out from their intern pool



What offices that you know of? Legitimately curious.


Alameda is the only office I've heard of that might be this way. Most Bay Area offices have reputations of not hiring their clerks.

Either way, no jobs in CA until you pass the bar.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:37 pm

Tanicius wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Ok, so as we all know, internships at firms (especially on the biglaw level) often result in employment following graduation. How do internships at PD/DA offices impact future employment? I assume that you're not a shoe-in like you are as a biglaw intern.


Alameda County DA is literally the only DA/PD office I have ever heard of that "offers" based on a summer internship.



This isn't quite true. I worked there this past summer. You're told whether or not you will be recommended for hire, but you don't leave with an offer. You may end up with an offer before the buy, but you still wait about a year to find out. And in the previous 3-4 years they only hired 2-4 per summer intern class.


It's still an intern-based hiring model, but your point is important. It just goes to emphasize how rare it is that you can reliably secure employment for this jobs before graduation.


Well I wouldn't go that far. You still typically get the offer during your 3L year.

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Tanicius
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Tanicius » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:Well I wouldn't go that far. You still typically get the offer during your 3L year.



Yeah, but that's just one office, and it's like you said - they hire only a few people.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Well I wouldn't go that far. You still typically get the offer during your 3L year.



Not in the last few years. And to my knowledge no one from my summer class has gotten an offer yet.

And just to add, last year when we were starting, the way they told us it worked was that after the bar, they'd call us up and "re-interview" us. And there were at least 3 people who had been out of law school for almost of a year, who were former clerks, who were just starting out.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Tanicius » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:11 am

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Last edited by Tanicius on Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Well I wouldn't go that far. You still typically get the offer during your 3L year.



Not in the last few years. And to my knowledge no one from my summer class has gotten an offer yet.

And just to add, last year when we were starting, the way they told us it worked was that after the bar, they'd call us up and "re-interview" us. And there were at least 3 people who had been out of law school for almost of a year, who were former clerks, who were just starting out.


Oh, I was speaking about DA's offices generally, not one specific office. I know quite a few people who've gotten DA jobs in their 3L year in New York.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:34 pm

In the PD office that I interned in this summer 75% of the people ended up getting offers from the system. The other 25% we kind of knew weren't going to get offers because of their performance and conflicts they had with the attys in the office.

The state in which I will work has a statewide system, and I had to agree that I'm willing to go anywhere in the state. From what I understand, hiring in this system is a lot more like firm hiring (I haven't really gone through any kind of firm app process) than it sounds like it is in other areas. It being a statewide system, it's a lot bigger than a lot of other offices, so they have a better understanding of historical hiring trends and can make predictions with a much broader sample size, and they hire for the entire state.

As I understand it, all of the people that were hired came from the intern pool. This would mean that about half of the people that started the summer got jobs, with not everyone applying for a job or being cut out for the job. I still had to interview, but it was a really (almost ridiculously) informal interview, the thought being that the summer was my subtantive interview. I technically had to 'apply' but it was much more informal.

I had an offer before Christmas, and I believe that the rest of the people hat got offers did too.

I have pretty extensive experience in indigent defense. I spent 1L summer 'interning' with a local ADC attorney. I don't know that I learned a whole lot except that court isn't scary and it's about who you know. This got me connected with the local PD office, and I interned there fall semester of 2L. From there I got a position for 2L summer as a certified intern. I spent basically the entire summer in court, and had a caseload and clients. I didn't manage to get to trial during the summer because everything kept pleading ot or getting dismissed. I continued interning during 3L, and I'm actually still there, and have since gotten into a jury trial and a bench trial. I moved to a different division, and have been doing some different stuff, but I'm still in court pretty much every day.

So basically, by the time I graduate, I'll have worked in the same office for essentially a year and a half, with a whole additional summer of related experience. My grades are terrible, locally well respected T2, no journal, no real moot court. Just lots and lots of real world real life experience. If you know what you want to do, bust your ass and tailor your resume to the job that you want. I'm one of very few people that I know of at my school that have jobs at this point.

Cinderella
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Cinderella » Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:In the PD office that I interned in this summer 75% of the people ended up getting offers from the system. The other 25% we kind of knew weren't going to get offers because of their performance and conflicts they had with the attys in the office.

The state in which I will work has a statewide system, and I had to agree that I'm willing to go anywhere in the state. From what I understand, hiring in this system is a lot more like firm hiring (I haven't really gone through any kind of firm app process) than it sounds like it is in other areas. It being a statewide system, it's a lot bigger than a lot of other offices, so they have a better understanding of historical hiring trends and can make predictions with a much broader sample size, and they hire for the entire state.

As I understand it, all of the people that were hired came from the intern pool. This would mean that about half of the people that started the summer got jobs, with not everyone applying for a job or being cut out for the job. I still had to interview, but it was a really (almost ridiculously) informal interview, the thought being that the summer was my subtantive interview. I technically had to 'apply' but it was much more informal.

I had an offer before Christmas, and I believe that the rest of the people hat got offers did too.

I have pretty extensive experience in indigent defense. I spent 1L summer 'interning' with a local ADC attorney. I don't know that I learned a whole lot except that court isn't scary and it's about who you know. This got me connected with the local PD office, and I interned there fall semester of 2L. From there I got a position for 2L summer as a certified intern. I spent basically the entire summer in court, and had a caseload and clients. I didn't manage to get to trial during the summer because everything kept pleading ot or getting dismissed. I continued interning during 3L, and I'm actually still there, and have since gotten into a jury trial and a bench trial. I moved to a different division, and have been doing some different stuff, but I'm still in court pretty much every day.

So basically, by the time I graduate, I'll have worked in the same office for essentially a year and a half, with a whole additional summer of related experience. My grades are terrible, locally well respected T2, no journal, no real moot court. Just lots and lots of real world real life experience. If you know what you want to do, bust your ass and tailor your resume to the job that you want. I'm one of very few people that I know of at my school that have jobs at this point.


Interesting. Any chance you'll share what state this is?

Anonymous User
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:53 pm

reluctantly. Colorado.

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bilbobaggins
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby bilbobaggins » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:57 pm

CO is the only system I know of that works like this.

dreakol
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby dreakol » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:reluctantly. Colorado.


hopefully they dont have much of a need for public defenders in eastern colorado

seatown12
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby seatown12 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:51 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:CO is the only system I know of that works like this.

I was going to guess Colorado for this very reason, but didn't want to out Anonymous if s/he didn't want to do so him/herself. That system is definitely not the norm.

I guess the moral of the story is "get a Colorado internship if you can"

P.S. congrats Anon

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leobowski
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby leobowski » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:51 pm

There are other state PDs that will give funnel offers to good 2L interns. CO is somewhat of an anomaly, in that there hiring was solely interns and licensed attorneys this year. Basically no 3L hiring of people that didn't intern with them.




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