How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:20 am

I think pretrial would look awfully close to prosecution for someone who wants to do PD?

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BlueLotus
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby BlueLotus » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:23 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I think pretrial would look awfully close to prosecution for someone who wants to do PD?


Yeah, I would veer away from an org that administers probation/supervised release.

Why not intern at a PD? Or a legal aid org serving the incarcerated/folks with criminal histories? That will look *much* better. Even civil legal aid in general (housing, public benefits, etc.) is fine, so long as you're not like helping battered women get restraining orders.

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logicspeaks
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby logicspeaks » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:17 am

BlueLotus wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I think pretrial would look awfully close to prosecution for someone who wants to do PD?


Yeah, I would veer away from an org that administers probation/supervised release.

Why not intern at a PD? Or a legal aid org serving the incarcerated/folks with criminal histories? That will look *much* better. Even civil legal aid in general (housing, public benefits, etc.) is fine, so long as you're not like helping battered women get restraining orders.

Yeah I'll look into those as well, I guess a better question would have been how PD offices would view pretrial services. It seemed like it would be distant enough from prosecution, but I guess not.

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Easy-E
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Easy-E » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:32 pm

Just got offered an internship at a prosecutors office. Pretty happy about it. Is it typical to send some kind of "thank you" letter/email, or just fill the applications out?

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gdane
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby gdane » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:42 pm

emarxnj wrote:Just got offered an internship at a prosecutors office. Pretty happy about it. Is it typical to send some kind of "thank you" letter/email, or just fill the applications out?

Just fill the stuff out. Internships tend to be very informal and whomever you send the thank you to may not have even been involved in bringing you on.

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History_Buff
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby History_Buff » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:16 am

Doing an externship with the local District Attorney's office over the summer. Very excited about it, also their email said that if they liked my work they'd want to keep me as an intern when school kicks in. (This is great because I'd need less hours to graduate and can keep my schedule reasonable)

So definitely something that I want to do, that is continue to intern there after the externship is over, for getting a job there (or elsewhere in the state) right?

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Easy-E
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Easy-E » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:22 am

gdane wrote:
emarxnj wrote:Just got offered an internship at a prosecutors office. Pretty happy about it. Is it typical to send some kind of "thank you" letter/email, or just fill the applications out?

Just fill the stuff out. Internships tend to be very informal and whomever you send the thank you to may not have even been involved in bringing you on.


Holy hell, the application is extensive. Reminds me of my friends police application, social references and stuff. He had to give the names of anyone he had dated in the last year I think though. Pretty excited about it though, although I struggled through this brief I just wrapped up...

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encore1101
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby encore1101 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:11 am

History_Buff wrote:Doing an externship with the local District Attorney's office over the summer. Very excited about it, also their email said that if they liked my work they'd want to keep me as an intern when school kicks in. (This is great because I'd need less hours to graduate and can keep my schedule reasonable)

So definitely something that I want to do, that is continue to intern there after the externship is over, for getting a job there (or elsewhere in the state) right?


Yes. As much exposure as possible, get as much experience as possible, try to play an active role if your State has a student practice order, demonstrate that interest in DA's Office, and network!

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deadpanic
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby deadpanic » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:42 am

History_Buff wrote:Doing an externship with the local District Attorney's office over the summer. Very excited about it, also their email said that if they liked my work they'd want to keep me as an intern when school kicks in. (This is great because I'd need less hours to graduate and can keep my schedule reasonable)

So definitely something that I want to do, that is continue to intern there after the externship is over, for getting a job there (or elsewhere in the state) right?


Awesome dude. PM me if you want. I can probably give you some insight there and other DA offices in-state.

eaternation
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby eaternation » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:49 pm

Anyone worked/interned at the CA appellate project or heard about it from friends? Trying to get more information on the office/atmosphere/etc. thanks

batman0101
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby batman0101 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:42 pm

So I was interested in seeing exactly how much funding PD/DA offices in my state have for salaries, and I noticed that PD offices get around half the funding of DA offices. That means that a student who is strictly a "PD gunner" has 1/3rd of the opportunities (and strict DA gunners would have only 2/3rds of the opportunities) compared to someone who is marketable to both PD and DA offices.

I have a strong preference for PD work but considering ITE and my even stronger preference for having some type of employment, I'd like to diversify my resume and come out of law school marketable to PDs & DAs.

What kind of work experience would give someone a strong chance with both the DA and PD? I understand the tension between the two: PD's and DA's are suspicious of applicants who've worked with the other side.

So, how do you toe the line and come out marketable to both sides?

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spleenworship
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby spleenworship » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:48 pm

batman0101 wrote:So I was interested in seeing exactly how much funding PD/DA offices in my state have for salaries, and I noticed that PD offices get around half the funding of DA offices. That means that a student who is strictly a "PD gunner" has 1/3rd of the opportunities (and strict DA gunners would have only 2/3rds of the opportunities) compared to someone who is marketable to both PD and DA offices.

I have a strong preference for PD work but considering ITE and my even stronger preference for having some type of employment, I'd like to diversify my resume and come out of law school marketable to PDs & DAs.

What kind of work experience would give someone a strong chance with both the DA and PD? I understand the tension between the two: PD's and DA's are suspicious of applicants who've worked with the other side.

So, how do you toe the line and come out marketable to both sides?


I seriously have no idea how this would be done. And frankly, I'd put $20 down that this simply couldn't be done, at least at 99% of the offices in the country.

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FlanAl
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby FlanAl » Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:35 pm

The only thing I could think of would be a USAO office 1L summer and then a PD office 2L summer. If your school offers prosecution and defense clinics, do both but leave the prosecution clinic off of your resume. Have a narrative for PD's like: I wanted to prosecute corporations and environmental law violators but then saw all the horrible stuff prosecutors do and knew I had to be a PD. Have a narrative for prosecutors like: I loved my first summer but really wanted to see the other side and I got a bunch of experience at the PD. You'll just have to be a little dishonest. You'll also need to try and keep the PD and DA offices you apply to geographically separate.

Personally I really wish PD offices weren't so anti-prosecution experience. Some of the best criminal defense attorneys in the country cut their teeth as prosecutors. I'd think it would give you a big advantage when you are actually practicing. Also, so many places don't even have PD offices so there's no other real opportunity to get experience (private firms aren't going to let you handle cases as a fresh grad).

It also seems like working in a prosecutor shop provides better exit options than a PD. Or at least you hear about it more. THis could just be because PD's are die hards and don't leave their jobs but you hardly ever see politicians, fed gov or big law folks that started as PDs, you do see this for prosecutors.

Personally, I don't think I could hack even a few months of throwing people in jail, especially with the state of our prisons and the drug laws, but I do think that the way PD offices treat it isn't great.

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Otunga
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Otunga » Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:55 pm

What are the most plausible non-PI options for people who strike out with PD? Presume that the person did the relevant clinics, has direct trial experience, investigative experience, and legal research and writing experience, and has completed the requisite coursework - basically, all the things they need to make them competitive. Obviously enough, one can continue on applying to PD jobs until they get one, but that has to be easier said than done, and eventually loans have to be addressed. What kinds of private firms are interested in people with such experiences and skills? I'm leaving out private crim defense firms since those appear to be principally filled by experienced attorneys.

batman0101
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby batman0101 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:14 pm

FlanAl wrote:The only thing I could think of would be a USAO office 1L summer and then a PD office 2L summer. If your school offers prosecution and defense clinics, do both but leave the prosecution clinic off of your resume. Have a narrative for PD's like: I wanted to prosecute corporations and environmental law violators but then saw all the horrible stuff prosecutors do and knew I had to be a PD. Have a narrative for prosecutors like: I loved my first summer but really wanted to see the other side and I got a bunch of experience at the PD. You'll just have to be a little dishonest. You'll also need to try and keep the PD and DA offices you apply to geographically separate.

Personally I really wish PD offices weren't so anti-prosecution experience. Some of the best criminal defense attorneys in the country cut their teeth as prosecutors. I'd think it would give you a big advantage when you are actually practicing. Also, so many places don't even have PD offices so there's no other real opportunity to get experience (private firms aren't going to let you handle cases as a fresh grad).

It also seems like working in a prosecutor shop provides better exit options than a PD. Or at least you hear about it more. THis could just be because PD's are die hards and don't leave their jobs but you hardly ever see politicians, fed gov or big law folks that started as PDs, you do see this for prosecutors.

Personally, I don't think I could hack even a few months of throwing people in jail, especially with the state of our prisons and the drug laws, but I do think that the way PD offices treat it isn't great.


Hm. Yeah, that does make a lot of sense. Unfortunately the USAO 1L summer ship has sailed for me, as I've got a 1L PD job lined up.

How about this... 2PD summers, 1PD clinic, 1 SAO clinic. Leave the PD clinic off the DA resume, leave the DA clinic off the PD resume?

That way you appear fully committed to becoming a PD on your PD resume and since the DA clinic would probably be 3L year, you could plausibly argue that you were fed up with PD work after two summers and fell in love with the DA's work. I get the impression that the PD experience wouldn't be a deal-breaker for a lot of DA's offices, especially if the DA experience was the most substantive/recent on your resume.

ETA: To clarify, I really just want to keep the door open to DA work. I realize it will be less than clear that you're fully committed to DA work when you spend two summers with the PD, but I'm just wondering whether the above plan keeps the door open at all.

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FlanAl
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby FlanAl » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:02 pm

I think thats probably good but I would think that applying to DA offices where there's no PD would be smart too. Like if you want to be in the New York area apply to the NYC PD's and then apply to like the different long island county DA's and the Queens DA. Or be like "I really want to live in Suffolk, my experience is PD but really I want criminal law and I know the DA is the best place for me to gain experience". I guess you could also make up a story about getting mugged or something, haha.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:49 pm

Otunga wrote:What are the most plausible non-PI options for people who strike out with PD? Presume that the person did the relevant clinics, has direct trial experience, investigative experience, and legal research and writing experience, and has completed the requisite coursework - basically, all the things they need to make them competitive. Obviously enough, one can continue on applying to PD jobs until they get one, but that has to be easier said than done, and eventually loans have to be addressed. What kinds of private firms are interested in people with such experiences and skills? I'm leaving out private crim defense firms since those appear to be principally filled by experienced attorneys.


There are plenty of private firm opportunities for new lawyers if you are willing to work in a small/medium sized city.

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spleenworship
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby spleenworship » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Otunga wrote:What are the most plausible non-PI options for people who strike out with PD? Presume that the person did the relevant clinics, has direct trial experience, investigative experience, and legal research and writing experience, and has completed the requisite coursework - basically, all the things they need to make them competitive. Obviously enough, one can continue on applying to PD jobs until they get one, but that has to be easier said than done, and eventually loans have to be addressed. What kinds of private firms are interested in people with such experiences and skills? I'm leaving out private crim defense firms since those appear to be principally filled by experienced attorneys.


There are plenty of private firm opportunities for new lawyers if you are willing to work in a small/medium sized city.


Where are these mythical jobs you speak of? I live in the hub of my state, with a metro area sporting 700,000 people, and I know one (1) guy who got a private crim defense job lined up.

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Easy-E
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Easy-E » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:30 pm

Anyone have any information on getting outside compensation for unpaid for, specifically at a prosecutor's office? Or am I chasing bigfoot here, and should be looking into a bartending gig.

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spleenworship
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby spleenworship » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:15 pm

emarxnj wrote:Anyone have any information on getting outside compensation for unpaid for, specifically at a prosecutor's office? Or am I chasing bigfoot here, and should be looking into a bartending gig.


My school has some fellowships through a student group for this sort of thing.

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Easy-E
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Easy-E » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:24 pm

spleenworship wrote:
emarxnj wrote:Anyone have any information on getting outside compensation for unpaid for, specifically at a prosecutor's office? Or am I chasing bigfoot here, and should be looking into a bartending gig.


My school has some fellowships through a student group for this sort of thing.


Yeah mine has something like that as well. Wasn't sure if there was anything outside that worth looking into.

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samcro_op
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby samcro_op » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:58 pm

emarxnj wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
emarxnj wrote:Anyone have any information on getting outside compensation for unpaid for, specifically at a prosecutor's office? Or am I chasing bigfoot here, and should be looking into a bartending gig.


My school has some fellowships through a student group for this sort of thing.


Yeah mine has something like that as well. Wasn't sure if there was anything outside that worth looking into.


There are some things listed on the PSJD website
https://www.psjd.org/Summer_Funding_Res ... c_Location

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FlanAl
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby FlanAl » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:04 pm

I'd imagine the federalist society would have a fellowship for prosecutors. Edited for being too snarky. I'd think blackstone would maybe have something too.

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spleenworship
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby spleenworship » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:15 pm

Like the federalist society would ever help someone work in government with the exception of the military.

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FlanAl
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby FlanAl » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:06 pm

Yeah, I edited out the snark about that. But I'd imagine state law enforcement and conservative groups would be the place to look.




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