How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

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Tanicius
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Tanicius » Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Ugh just had an interview at legal aid and idk how I feel about it. Interviewer said I did good when I asked for advice but I have this feeling my summation wasn't super awesome, ugh fucking nerves man! They were very nice and laughed with me though... Ahhh! I'm hoping I didn't fuck up


If it makes you feel better, I nailed the summation but apparently did less well at the other parts of the interview and did not get a callback, so it's clearly a holistic interview where they weigh up just about everything.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:36 pm

Tanicius wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Ugh just had an interview at legal aid and idk how I feel about it. Interviewer said I did good when I asked for advice but I have this feeling my summation wasn't super awesome, ugh fucking nerves man! They were very nice and laughed with me though... Ahhh! I'm hoping I didn't fuck up


If it makes you feel better, I nailed the summation but apparently did less well at the other parts of the interview and did not get a callback, so it's clearly a holistic interview where they weigh up just about everything.

I mean I had it written well but I messed up organization of it, substance was there though. How long did it take you to hear back about not getting a call back? I'm really worried

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BlueLotus
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:42 pm

Anyone interview with Defender Ass'n of Philadelphia?

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Tanicius
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Tanicius » Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Ugh just had an interview at legal aid and idk how I feel about it. Interviewer said I did good when I asked for advice but I have this feeling my summation wasn't super awesome, ugh fucking nerves man! They were very nice and laughed with me though... Ahhh! I'm hoping I didn't fuck up


If it makes you feel better, I nailed the summation but apparently did less well at the other parts of the interview and did not get a callback, so it's clearly a holistic interview where they weigh up just about everything.

I mean I had it written well but I messed up organization of it, substance was there though. How long did it take you to hear back about not getting a call back? I'm really worried



Interviewed at the end of August. Heard back last week. :(

And on to the next one...

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FlanAl
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby FlanAl » Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:08 pm

Hey, sorry to hear that. You're out in California right? Maybe they were worried that you were a flight risk or something, I know that almost every lawyer at the NYC office I interned with that was from Cali had plans of going back.

Mind sharing what the other parts are? Is it just questions off the hypo like if a witness said such and such would you still put them on the stand? Or just random questions to rattle you before and after you do your closing?

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Tanicius
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Tanicius » Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:13 pm

FlanAl wrote:Mind sharing what the other parts are? Is it just questions off the hypo like if a witness said such and such would you still put them on the stand? Or just random questions to rattle you before and after you do your closing?



They asked me about my case theory choice for the summation. I'd been trained in a way on trial advocacy by other public defenders with a school of thought they clearly did not agree with, so that probably hurt me. I deliberately argued a theory of innocence, and they informed me that in New York City it's a lot safer to hammer on reasonable doubt. This was directly at odds with the jurisdictions where I have worked, where juries tend to distrust reasonable doubt as a mere technicality that allows guilty people to go free. We talked about that and arguments for and against different strategy, so I think I made the point that my summation angle came from educated dissent and not ignorance, but it's still possible this difference colored their thinking and they just didn't agree with me for the rest of the interview. (So, protip for anyone with an LAS summation coming up: Argue reasonable doubt exclusively, and don't argue theory of innocence even if that's how you've been specifically trained to do it.)

They had some basic hypos of other offices, but the more interesting stuff was an exercise prepping your client for trial and talking to her about a plea deal offer. I felt that I did lukewarm at best on those exercises because I had never done any client negotiation myself (I mean, really, who as an intern ever has, given that we don't have the authority to do that?). They were looking for certain aptitudes in those areas though, and if I had to guess one of the reasons they rejected me is that I didn't do too solid on them.
Last edited by Tanicius on Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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FlanAl
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby FlanAl » Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:17 pm

Hey thanks!

Also, did you guys all follow up with every person you table talked with? I lost the business card for one of the offices that I thought I did really well with and am having an impossible time figuring out the person's email. If I don't follow up am I doomed?

Edit: I actually got two names from EJW and am planning on just using those names and the formula on their office website i.e. j.smith@pd.org and just emailing both of them even though I only really talked to one. Good idea?

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spleenworship
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby spleenworship » Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:40 pm

BlueLotus wrote:Anyone interview with Defender Ass'n of Philadelphia?



They haven't gotten back to me.


On another note, I guess I should've called Jersey up. Trenton would be the absolutely perfect office for me. Perfect. Fuck. I wonder if it is too late to try to apply.

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BlueLotus
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:50 pm

spleenworship wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:Anyone interview with Defender Ass'n of Philadelphia?



They haven't gotten back to me.


On another note, I guess I should've called Jersey up. Trenton would be the absolutely perfect office for me. Perfect. Fuck. I wonder if it is too late to try to apply.


oops, i meant for 2L intern, not postgrad.

saw that the deadline for 2Ls is 12/31, so i figure it would be a loooong wait.

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FlanAl
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby FlanAl » Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:54 pm

spleenworship wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:Anyone interview with Defender Ass'n of Philadelphia?



They haven't gotten back to me.


On another note, I guess I should've called Jersey up. Trenton would be the absolutely perfect office for me. Perfect. Fuck. I wonder if it is too late to try to apply.


Its definitely worth a shot, especially since that one above poster said that he/she was told to apply in January. If there are any alums from your school who work there you should hit them up and see what they have to say.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:41 pm

has anyone heard back abt alameda post bar positions after the substantive interview?

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:has anyone heard back abt alameda post bar positions after the substantive interview?


Nothing yet...

They're supposed to get back to us this week, right? God I'm so anxious about this. I want my job hunt to be over!

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:47 pm

are they? i got an email from lindsey like later october when i asked for an update. now..its nov 4. so fail.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:48 pm

also how did u think that alameda interview went?? i had NO idea how i did

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:also how did u think that alameda interview went?? i had NO idea how i did


I really don't know. I gave justifications for all my case strategies, I did my best to be energetic and frank, and I really pressed them on how much I love this work and want to work there. They had crazy-good poker faces though, so I don't know any better than you do.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:59 pm

well hopefully we find out this week....

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:well hopefully we find out this week....


Please do come back and post an update if/when you hear!

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:06 am

yea you too!! im driving myself crazy checking my email all the time w/o having a clue when to expect an email!

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:45 am

Tanicius wrote:
FlanAl wrote:Mind sharing what the other parts are? Is it just questions off the hypo like if a witness said such and such would you still put them on the stand? Or just random questions to rattle you before and after you do your closing?



They asked me about my case theory choice for the summation. I'd been trained in a way on trial advocacy by other public defenders with a school of thought they clearly did not agree with, so that probably hurt me. I deliberately argued a theory of innocence, and they informed me that in New York City it's a lot safer to hammer on reasonable doubt. This was directly at odds with the jurisdictions where I have worked, where juries tend to distrust reasonable doubt as a mere technicality that allows guilty people to go free. We talked about that and arguments for and against different strategy, so I think I made the point that my summation angle came from educated dissent and not ignorance, but it's still possible this difference colored their thinking and they just didn't agree with me for the rest of the interview. (So, protip for anyone with an LAS summation coming up: Argue reasonable doubt exclusively, and don't argue theory of innocence even if that's how you've been specifically trained to do it.)

They had some basic hypos of other offices, but the more interesting stuff was an exercise prepping your client for trial and talking to her about a plea deal offer. I felt that I did lukewarm at best on those exercises because I had never done any client negotiation myself (I mean, really, who as an intern ever has, given that we don't have the authority to do that?). They were looking for certain aptitudes in those areas though, and if I had to guess one of the reasons they rejected me is that I didn't do too solid on them.

The plea negotiation for me was straight forward take it or risk it, was I supposed to say something else?

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:47 am

Anyone else have a crazy experience at NJ with follow up interview and care to share?

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:48 am

Got an emailed rejection from NH PDs for post-grad job. Not surprised. My grades are well below what they want, so I wasn't sure why they selected me for an interview at EJW to begin with.

kastane23
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby kastane23 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:13 pm

For those asking about the LAS interview process, I've been through the entire thing (not hired, by any stretch, I just went through the process already), so I am happy to share my information.

LAS is doing things differently this year. You have the panel interview with the hypos, they assess you, then all of your application materials & panel assessment go back to a committee of hiring attorneys who then decide if you have a final interview w/ Tina (who is very nice & warm). She told me I would hear back mid-December, but I'm not sure about that since budget is always a concern.

As far as the panel goes, have your summation MEMORIZED. I ended up forgetting half of my printed out summation at home, so I just had three points in highlighter in front of me. I didn't look at it once. Maintain eye contact, etc.

The hypo answers can vary, just be yourself and take it seriously. I very much botched a random question about pleas, but I stuck to my guns and I didn't let it influence the rest of my interview. My interviewers gave me some cues as well- I watched their expressions and body language to see if I was going in the right direction. Treat it seriously. I talked to my male interviewer as if he were my female client. Listen to the questions and ask them to repeat if necessary. The two men I had were intimidating at first, but as the interview progressed, they warmed up. Don't let their attitudes throw you off.

Also if you have any real world experience that parallels a question, make sure to use that in your response. Whenever I did that, they seemed to like and relate to my answer more.

Know your writing sample. They asked me about my writing sample, why I made the arguments I made and which argument I thought was the weakest argument. They focused on the weakness rather than the strength of some of the arguments in the writing sample.

Also, acknowledge that public defense isn't all roses. They asked me what I would do if I lost a case. Have an answer. LAS is very collegial- so incorporating something like "maybe one of my co-workers won a motion that day- so at least I know they won the fight." They want to know that this isn't about your an your victories- but public defense and fighting the good fight.

At then end, I asked them some questions about how they liked the job, what the job entails, and how they personally cope with the stress.

Lastly, do not under any circumstance, say you are nervous. Don't mention it once. Don't giggle about it, don't keep emphasizing your nerves. They want to see how you're going to hold up in a court room w/ a judge, a gallery and your client right next to you. They don't think it's cute and they are not as sympathetic as they might seem during the interview (this is not my personal opinion, but comes from an inside source).

Hope this helps. This process is nerve-wracking and tiring, so good luck!

Anonymous User
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:28 pm

kastane23 wrote:For those asking about the LAS interview process, I've been through the entire thing (not hired, by any stretch, I just went through the process already), so I am happy to share my information.

LAS is doing things differently this year. You have the panel interview with the hypos, they assess you, then all of your application materials & panel assessment go back to a committee of hiring attorneys who then decide if you have a final interview w/ Tina (who is very nice & warm). She told me I would hear back mid-December, but I'm not sure about that since budget is always a concern.

As far as the panel goes, have your summation MEMORIZED. I ended up forgetting half of my printed out summation at home, so I just had three points in highlighter in front of me. I didn't look at it once. Maintain eye contact, etc.

The hypo answers can vary, just be yourself and take it seriously. I very much botched a random question about pleas, but I stuck to my guns and I didn't let it influence the rest of my interview. My interviewers gave me some cues as well- I watched their expressions and body language to see if I was going in the right direction. Treat it seriously. I talked to my male interviewer as if he were my female client. Listen to the questions and ask them to repeat if necessary. The two men I had were intimidating at first, but as the interview progressed, they warmed up. Don't let their attitudes throw you off.

Also if you have any real world experience that parallels a question, make sure to use that in your response. Whenever I did that, they seemed to like and relate to my answer more.

Know your writing sample. They asked me about my writing sample, why I made the arguments I made and which argument I thought was the weakest argument. They focused on the weakness rather than the strength of some of the arguments in the writing sample.

Also, acknowledge that public defense isn't all roses. They asked me what I would do if I lost a case. Have an answer. LAS is very collegial- so incorporating something like "maybe one of my co-workers won a motion that day- so at least I know they won the fight." They want to know that this isn't about your an your victories- but public defense and fighting the good fight.

At then end, I asked them some questions about how they liked the job, what the job entails, and how they personally cope with the stress.

Lastly, do not under any circumstance, say you are nervous. Don't mention it once. Don't giggle about it, don't keep emphasizing your nerves. They want to see how you're going to hold up in a court room w/ a judge, a gallery and your client right next to you. They don't think it's cute and they are not as sympathetic as they might seem during the interview (this is not my personal opinion, but comes from an inside source).

Hope this helps. This process is nerve-wracking and tiring, so good luck!



Has anyone who had the first interview for LAS in September heard back about a second interview/reject yet?

Anonymous User
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:

Has anyone who had the first interview for LAS in September heard back about a second interview/reject yet?



I interviewed in early september, have interview with tina end of the month

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:

Has anyone who had the first interview for LAS in September heard back about a second interview/reject yet?



I interviewed in early september, have interview with tina end of the month


I interviewed in early October and have an interview with Tina at the end of this month.




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