How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

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BlueLotus
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:44 pm

If an employer doesn't specify the length of a writing sample, what is the max length it should be?

Also, which one of these three is best for a writing sample?:
1.) a paper for a seminar class (similar to an LR "note")
2.) a "know-your-rights" booklet for clients that i wrote for a legal aid org
3) brief/memoranda

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Tanicius
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Tanicius » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:3Ls/Valers/current PDs,

which Legal Aid/PD's offices for sure don't ask for transcripts?

my grades are bad enough that my gpa is not posted on my resume :oops: ...but despite that, ejw is treating me quite well (must be cuz my cover letters/resume SCREAMS "demonstrated commitment" through volunteering/internships)

of course i have four more semesters to show an "upward trend", but my 1L performance was not pretty, to say the least.


Better question to ask: Why would you EVER not apply to a PD just because they ask for your grades? Don't preemptively reject yourself, capiche?


i suppose you're right. i just figured that sub-3.0=automatic ding for places that do ask. gov/pi employers are not typically as grade whoring as biglaw, but i've noticed (on the U of AZ Gov Honors site) that 3.0 is floor for many places.


AG offices are academically intensive. It's not even remotely the same type of work. Pubdefense is legal-side social work. You're in the trenches. Grades do not reflect an aptitude for the work, period. If you get rejected by an office, I promise you grades will not be the DECIDING factor.
Last edited by Tanicius on Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tanicius
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Tanicius » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:47 pm

BlueLotus wrote:If an employer doesn't specify the length of a writing sample, what is the max length it should be?

Also, which one of these three is best for a writing sample?:
1.) a paper for a seminar class (similar to an LR "note")
2.) a "know-your-rights" booklet for clients that i wrote for a legal aid org
3) brief/memoranda


Brief, easy. Brief >>> memo >> everything else. I can see some trial offices not even considering non-brief-style writing samples.

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spleenworship
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby spleenworship » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:53 pm

Tanicius wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:3Ls/Valers/current PDs,

which Legal Aid/PD's offices for sure don't ask for transcripts?

my grades are bad enough that my gpa is not posted on my resume :oops: ...but despite that, ejw is treating me quite well (must be cuz my cover letters/resume SCREAMS "demonstrated commitment" through volunteering/internships)

of course i have four more semesters to show an "upward trend", but my 1L performance was not pretty, to say the least.


Better question to ask: Why would you EVER not apply to a PD just because they ask for your grades? Don't preemptively reject yourself, capiche?


i suppose you're right. i just figured that sub-3.0=automatic ding for places that do ask. gov/pi employers are not typically as grade whoring as biglaw, but i've noticed (on the U of AZ Gov Honors site) that 3.0 is floor for many places.


AG offices are academically intensive. It's not even remotely the same type of work. PD work is legal-side social work. You're in the trenches. Grades do not reflect an aptitude for the work, period. If you get rejected by an office, I promise you grades will not be the DECIDING factor.



With the exception of New Hampshire, apparently

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Tanicius
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Tanicius » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:56 pm

Just because NH asks for high grades does not mean they value that factor over other more important factors.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:59 pm

Tanicius wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:3Ls/Valers/current PDs,

which Legal Aid/PD's offices for sure don't ask for transcripts?

my grades are bad enough that my gpa is not posted on my resume :oops: ...but despite that, ejw is treating me quite well (must be cuz my cover letters/resume SCREAMS "demonstrated commitment" through volunteering/internships)

of course i have four more semesters to show an "upward trend", but my 1L performance was not pretty, to say the least.


Better question to ask: Why would you EVER not apply to a PD just because they ask for your grades? Don't preemptively reject yourself, capiche?


i suppose you're right. i just figured that sub-3.0=automatic ding for places that do ask. gov/pi employers are not typically as grade whoring as biglaw, but i've noticed (on the U of AZ Gov Honors site) that 3.0 is floor for many places.


AG offices are academically intensive. It's not even remotely the same type of work. PD work is legal-side social work. You're in the trenches. Grades do not reflect an aptitude for the work, period. If you get rejected by an office, I promise you grades will not be the DECIDING factor.


true, true. but i can def see grades/journal being a tiebreaker, where there are two candidates with equivalent demonstrated commitment to serving the indigent (i.e. both interned every semester, did a clinic, volunteered, fluent in Spanish, etc.)

yeah, i've aimed to do "in the trenches" work as opposed to policy-oriented (i.e. ACLU, SPLC), which tend to care a great deal about rank/LR. if i came to law school for biglaw/"prestigious pi" i would've dropped out easily, b/c my gpa effectively forecloses those opportunities.

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BlueLotus
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:00 pm

Tanicius wrote:Just because NH asks for high grades does not mean they value that factor over other more important factors.


I'd imagine "high grades" for PD would be a different standard than "high grades" for BigLaw/clerkships...

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Tanicius
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Tanicius » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:01 pm

BlueLotus wrote:
Tanicius wrote:Just because NH asks for high grades does not mean they value that factor over other more important factors.


I'd imagine "high grades" for PD would be a different standard than "high grades" for BigLaw/clerkships...


Even if a PD office says top third and law review from T14, there is only one way to make sure: apply and find out. What do you lose in the worst case scenario? Like five minutes of your time.

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BlueLotus
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:09 pm

What should be max length of a writing sample if they don't specify?

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Tanicius
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Tanicius » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:10 pm

BlueLotus wrote:What should be max length of a writing sample if they don't specify?


Ten pages.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:12 pm

Tanicius wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:
Tanicius wrote:Just because NH asks for high grades does not mean they value that factor over other more important factors.


I'd imagine "high grades" for PD would be a different standard than "high grades" for BigLaw/clerkships...


Even if a PD office says top third and law review from T14, there is only one way to make sure: apply and find out. What do you lose in the worst case scenario? Like five minutes of your time.


good point. my mediocre grades have created a sense of inferiority that i'm still struggling to get over (hence the hesitancy of applying to offices wanting "high grades"...whatever than means), even though it's almost been 4 months since they were released. :cry:

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Tanicius
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Tanicius » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:
Tanicius wrote:Just because NH asks for high grades does not mean they value that factor over other more important factors.


I'd imagine "high grades" for PD would be a different standard than "high grades" for BigLaw/clerkships...


Even if a PD office says top third and law review from T14, there is only one way to make sure: apply and find out. What do you lose in the worst case scenario? Like five minutes of your time.


good point. my mediocre grades have created a sense of inferiority that i'm still struggling to get over (hence the hesitancy of applying to offices wanting "high grades"...whatever than means), even though it's almost been 4 months since they were released. :cry:



I have very low grades. I'm better at arguing on paper or in court than I am at arguing on a law exam, and my achievements and references will all vet me on that. That's my angle, and it sounds like yours too.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:47 pm

FlanAl wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:for those of you at NY area schools, Bronx Defenders contacted me about interviewing in NY today, and told me that is why they weren't going to accept me for an interview at EJW.


Thanks for the heads up, their direct application is due on Friday so I guess I'll just re-send them my stuff if I don't hear from them. Also, did they contact you via phone or email?


They contacted me via email today-- the HR person is sending all things out individually, so my guess is she is very swamped. She said she would be in touch "shortly."

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:3Ls/Valers/current PDs,

which Legal Aid/PD's offices for sure don't ask for transcripts?

my grades are bad enough that my gpa is not posted on my resume :oops: ...but despite that, ejw is treating me quite well (must be cuz my cover letters/resume SCREAMS "demonstrated commitment" through volunteering/internships)

of course i have four more semesters to show an "upward trend", but my 1L performance was not pretty, to say the least.


this is for internships right? If people have multiple interview offers from EJW when I haven't heard anything I'm gonna be pretty bummed. Congrats though and yeah I really don't think the GPA is ever a real issue. In fact I was just kinda thinking about how having not great grades could be a something you could spin in a positive way like "people look down on me for circumstances I can't 100% control" kinda like clients OR "I have an issue with authority"

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:51 pm

Can someone who has figured out this LAS application please tell me how the fuck to convert everything from pdf to word to pdf back again. Well some things are just word documents but how do I convert everything into one PDF document without it looking like shit. I'm using a mac. HALP.

Current 3L here ... no words from EJW apps yet but only applied to PD offices

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:3Ls/Valers/current PDs,

which Legal Aid/PD's offices for sure don't ask for transcripts?

my grades are bad enough that my gpa is not posted on my resume :oops: ...but despite that, ejw is treating me quite well (must be cuz my cover letters/resume SCREAMS "demonstrated commitment" through volunteering/internships)

of course i have four more semesters to show an "upward trend", but my 1L performance was not pretty, to say the least.


this is for internships right? If people have multiple interview offers from EJW when I haven't heard anything I'm gonna be pretty bummed. Congrats though and yeah I really don't think the GPA is ever a real issue. In fact I was just kinda thinking about how having not great grades could be a something you could spin in a positive way like "people look down on me for circumstances I can't 100% control" kinda like clients OR "I have an issue with authority"


lol, i hope an employer that sees my transcript buys that positive spin! yeah, internship, not postgrad. interestingly, the employer i got an interview for today does not ask for transcripts for postgrad fellowship--just cover letter, resume, references, and writing sample.

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BlueLotus
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby BlueLotus » Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:Got an EJW interview finally! Picked the last interview slot, lol.


Congrats! What office?


Sorry, should have posted anon. If you wanna know, feel free to PM me.

Best of luck with the EJW waiting game!

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:
Tanicius wrote:Just because NH asks for high grades does not mean they value that factor over other more important factors.


I'd imagine "high grades" for PD would be a different standard than "high grades" for BigLaw/clerkships...


Even if a PD office says top third and law review from T14, there is only one way to make sure: apply and find out. What do you lose in the worst case scenario? Like five minutes of your time.


good point. my mediocre grades have created a sense of inferiority that i'm still struggling to get over (hence the hesitancy of applying to offices wanting "high grades"...whatever than means), even though it's almost been 4 months since they were released. :cry:




I wasn't selected last year at EJW for NH probably because of my grades as I got interviews and some offers from everywhere else I applied last year.

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robin600
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby robin600 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:25 am

Tanicius wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:If an employer doesn't specify the length of a writing sample, what is the max length it should be?

Also, which one of these three is best for a writing sample?:
1.) a paper for a seminar class (similar to an LR "note")
2.) a "know-your-rights" booklet for clients that i wrote for a legal aid org
3) brief/memoranda


Brief, easy. Brief >>> memo >> everything else. I can see some trial offices not even considering non-brief-style writing samples.

Like an appellate brief? What do you mean by brief? I have a hard time believing trial offices want a brief. Like a motion? I use a memo i wrote for a supervisor on a crim law topic relevant to a fourth amendment issue for myo writing sample and so far no complaints.

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spleenworship
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby spleenworship » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:30 am

Anonymous User wrote:Can someone who has figured out this LAS application please tell me how the fuck to convert everything from pdf to word to pdf back again. Well some things are just word documents but how do I convert everything into one PDF document without it looking like shit. I'm using a mac. HALP.

Current 3L here ... no words from EJW apps yet but only applied to PD offices


Pay for the converter from adobe to make it all word, then copy and paste it into one word doc. Then "save as" and choose PDF format. And done.

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Lawst
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Lawst » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:38 am

spleenworship wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Can someone who has figured out this LAS application please tell me how the fuck to convert everything from pdf to word to pdf back again. Well some things are just word documents but how do I convert everything into one PDF document without it looking like shit. I'm using a mac. HALP.

Current 3L here ... no words from EJW apps yet but only applied to PD offices


Pay for the converter from adobe to make it all word, then copy and paste it into one word doc. Then "save as" and choose PDF format. And done.


Or, ask the law library or career services. You probably have access to some program for free through school if you don't want to buy the converter just for this. I know you can compile all into one PDF through Adobe Acrobat, because it's what my clinic used for Bates stamping. No idea about converting back.

ETA: IIRC, you can also get a free trial of Acrobat for a certain number of days - try that if it's still available.

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Pretzel_Logic
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:39 am

To the anon worried about grades, JUST APPLY ANYWAY. It doesn't matter and you lose nothing by trying.

By way of anecdote, I did pretty okay my 1L year and got absolutely hulk-smashed beyond-median-pwned my 2L fall. I interviewed with the USAO during my 2L spring and got a spot as a law clerk anyway. In that office, I think maybe all but one of the attorneys were in the top ten of their respective classes, but they took a chance on me anyway. In my experience, the commitment is what matters, so really sell that.

As for writing sample, I always use a brief (or at least one argument from it). It's by far my most polished piece from school and I couldn't use most of what I wrote at the USAO because I would have had to redact everything. Brief/motion is preferable to virtually everything else.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:48 pm

BrooklynDS accepted an EJW interview request this morning. Anyone else see any movement?

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spleenworship
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby spleenworship » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:48 pm

Just got rejected for EJW interviews with Bronx and Brooklyn.

ETA: 7 more interview requests outstanding. Let's hope I don't get slaughtered like last year's crew. Congrats to the anon who got the Brooklyn interview.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:BrooklynDS accepted an EJW interview request this morning. Anyone else see any movement?

were you able to accept under the task list and schedule a time slot?




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