How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

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lmr
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:22 am

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby lmr » Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Lady Heather wrote:I believe these are all pre-bar hiring offices (although some hire just for 'post-bar' law clerk positions). Please add any offices I've missed.

PUBLIC DEFENSE
Unsure:
    Brooklyn

No transcript:
    Bronx
    Colorado
    Mecklenberg Co (NC)
    Miami
    New Jersey
    Palm Beach
    Philly
    San Diego Fed

Requires transcript:
    Alameda Co
    CPCS
    Contra Costa Co
    Legal Aid Society
    New Hampshire
    Prettyman Fellowship
    PDS
    San Diego Co

PROSECUTION
Unsure:
    Brooklyn
    San Francisco
    Suffolk Co (MA)

Requires transcript:
    Bronx
    Cook Co
    Manhattan
    Miami
    Philly
    Queens


This is super helpful--thanks! It made my day to see that Philly and NJ PD don't ask for transcripts.


Philly's website says you need to upload transcript and NJ PD doesn't hire pre-bar (according to Rutger's hdbk). NJ's website directs you to HR manager. Am I missing something w regards to NJ?

Anonymous User
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:36 pm

lmr wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Lady Heather wrote:I believe these are all pre-bar hiring offices (although some hire just for 'post-bar' law clerk positions). Please add any offices I've missed.

PUBLIC DEFENSE
Unsure:
    Brooklyn

No transcript:
    Bronx
    Colorado
    Mecklenberg Co (NC)
    Miami
    New Jersey
    Palm Beach
    Philly
    San Diego Fed

Requires transcript:
    Alameda Co
    CPCS
    Contra Costa Co
    Legal Aid Society
    New Hampshire
    Prettyman Fellowship
    PDS
    San Diego Co

PROSECUTION
Unsure:
    Brooklyn
    San Francisco
    Suffolk Co (MA)

Requires transcript:
    Bronx
    Cook Co
    Manhattan
    Miami
    Philly
    Queens


This is super helpful--thanks! It made my day to see that Philly and NJ PD don't ask for transcripts.


Philly's website says you need to upload transcript and NJ PD doesn't hire pre-bar (according to Rutger's hdbk). NJ's website directs you to HR manager. Am I missing something w regards to NJ?


Re: Philly PD, the public defender app does asks for transcripts, but the child advocacy unit att'y position does not, oddly: http://www.philadefender.org/attorney-c ... -apply.php

Anonymous User
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:37 am

lmr wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Lady Heather wrote:I believe these are all pre-bar hiring offices (although some hire just for 'post-bar' law clerk positions). Please add any offices I've missed.

PUBLIC DEFENSE
Unsure:
    Brooklyn

No transcript:
    Bronx
    Colorado
    Mecklenberg Co (NC)
    Miami
    New Jersey
    Palm Beach
    Philly
    San Diego Fed

Requires transcript:
    Alameda Co
    CPCS
    Contra Costa Co
    Legal Aid Society
    New Hampshire
    Prettyman Fellowship
    PDS
    San Diego Co

PROSECUTION
Unsure:
    Brooklyn
    San Francisco
    Suffolk Co (MA)

Requires transcript:
    Bronx
    Cook Co
    Manhattan
    Miami
    Philly
    Queens


This is super helpful--thanks! It made my day to see that Philly and NJ PD don't ask for transcripts.


Philly's website says you need to upload transcript and NJ PD doesn't hire pre-bar (according to Rutger's hdbk). NJ's website directs you to HR manager. Am I missing something w regards to NJ?


Your NJ assessment sounds right to me. I had a screener during 3L fall and then was "invited to apply" to their post-graduation unpaid internship program and told I could apply for a full time position after bar results come out. That said, some on this board have reported pre-graduation offers from NJ, so maybe I was softly rejected.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tanicius wrote:I have literally never been asked for a transcript by any public defender office I have interviewed for.


How typical is this of other people's experiences? Is this true only of PDs in flyover states? I'd imagine the big-city PDs (i.e. PDS, Bronx Defenders, etc.) would care a great deal about grades.

I'm T30'er with shit grades, no debt and demonstrated commitment to serving the indigent.


I worked at Brooklyn 2L summer and they did not ask for a transcript and never brought it up. on bronx's website they only ask for a cover letter and resume.

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Tanicius
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Tanicius » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:00 pm

Have at various points done interviews for most of the Bay Area PD offices and have never been asked for a transcript. Same with Bronx and Brooklyn. LAS does want one, as advertised on their website.

adonai
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby adonai » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:07 pm

Either way, isn't the DA/PD office eventually going to see your transcript? I mean, don't they need to confirm you went to and graduated a law school before they extend you an offer? Plus, I'm sure they're interested as to what classes you took. It seems like it is inevitable they will see your transcript and they will see your grades whether that factors into their equation of giving you an offer or not.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:14 pm

adonai wrote:Either way, isn't the DA/PD office eventually going to see your transcript? I mean, don't they need to confirm you went to and graduated a law school before they extend you an offer? Plus, I'm sure they're interested as to what classes you took. It seems like it is inevitable they will see your transcript and they will see your grades whether that factors into their equation of giving you an offer or not.

Not necessarily. I have friends who work for Colorado PD who got their offers without submitting a transcript. (I'm not sure they ever do actually ask for your transcript - the big thing is whether you pass the bar or not, and if you pass the bar, you have to have graduated from law school.)

lmr
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:22 am

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby lmr » Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:02 pm

This is super helpful--thanks! It made my day to see that Philly and NJ PD don't ask for transcripts.[/quote]

Philly's website says you need to upload transcript and NJ PD doesn't hire pre-bar (according to Rutger's hdbk). NJ's website directs you to HR manager. Am I missing something w regards to NJ?[/quote]

Your NJ assessment sounds right to me. I had a screener during 3L fall and then was "invited to apply" to their post-graduation unpaid internship program and told I could apply for a full time position after bar results come out. That said, some on this board have reported pre-graduation offers from NJ, so maybe I was softly rejected.[/quote]

So how do you get that initial screener interview if they don't visit your school? Just apply through the website? I don't even see their post-graduation unpaid internship program online...

Void
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Void » Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:07 pm

adonai wrote:Either way, isn't the DA/PD office eventually going to see your transcript? I mean, don't they need to confirm you went to and graduated a law school before they extend you an offer? Plus, I'm sure they're interested as to what classes you took. It seems like it is inevitable they will see your transcript and they will see your grades whether that factors into their equation of giving you an offer or not.


I accepted a full time post-grad/pre-bar PD offer with an office that has not ever seen my transcript.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:12 pm

lmr wrote:
So how do you get that initial screener interview if they don't visit your school? Just apply through the website? I don't even see their post-graduation unpaid internship program online...


Applied and selected for interview (not a table visit) at NYU public interest fair. (Not an NYU student). Last I checked there was no real internship "program," but there was some brief mention of internships somewhere on their website.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tanicius wrote:I have literally never been asked for a transcript by any public defender office I have interviewed for.


How typical is this of other people's experiences? Is this true only of PDs in flyover states? I'd imagine the big-city PDs (i.e. PDS, Bronx Defenders, etc.) would care a great deal about grades.

I'm T30'er with shit grades, no debt and demonstrated commitment to serving the indigent.


Bwahaha! Bronx doesn't care two shits about grades and won't ask for your transcript. In fact most people who do ask for your transcript probably don't care about it as much as they do experience. If you have shitty grades and great experience it won't matter one bit.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:30 am

Does Contra Costa only interview former interns for their post-bar positions? Anyone know anything about Santa Clara, yet another PD office directing me to HR listings...

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Borhas
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Borhas » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:53 am

BlueLotus wrote:It is said on here often that past work with victims is a huge red flag for PDs, and often merits a ding at the screener stage (esp. for folks with DA experience)

BUT, what if you're applying for a non-criminal division of a PD's office?

For instance, the Child Advocacy Unit at Defender Association of Philadelphia, Child and Family Law Unit of CPCS, and Office of the Law Guardian at NJPD represent children in civil family court proceedings.

I've never had any prosecutorial experience, but before law school I did work on a hotline for DV survivors, and last summer I interned at an immigration legal aid org with undocumented clients seeking U visas and VAWA self-petitions (not exclusively, did other stuff too, like cancellation of removal, DACA, SIJ, etc.) . Will those experiences be "bad" even if I'm applying for a civil division of a PD's office like those I mentioned above?

I wouldn't worry about it.

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BlueLotus
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:40 pm

Borhas wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:It is said on here often that past work with victims is a huge red flag for PDs, and often merits a ding at the screener stage (esp. for folks with DA experience)

BUT, what if you're applying for a non-criminal division of a PD's office?

For instance, the Child Advocacy Unit at Defender Association of Philadelphia, Child and Family Law Unit of CPCS, and Office of the Law Guardian at NJPD represent children in civil family court proceedings.

I've never had any prosecutorial experience, but before law school I did work on a hotline for DV survivors, and last summer I interned at an immigration legal aid org with undocumented clients seeking U visas and VAWA self-petitions (not exclusively, did other stuff too, like cancellation of removal, DACA, SIJ, etc.) . Will those experiences be "bad" even if I'm applying for a civil division of a PD's office like those I mentioned above?

I wouldn't worry about it.


Thanks! Comforting and surprising to hear. Outright prosecutorial work (as opposed to like helping battered women with divorce/custody/support issues) is still a red flag I'd assume, even for civil legal aid.

It's interesting how much easier it is to switch from PD-->DA compared to vice versa.

Does anyone know the starting salary for Philly PD? Do they hire pre-bar?

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gdane
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby gdane » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:15 pm

What kind of "ethics" questions can I expect in my upcoming interviews with prosecutors offices? I know about Brady stuff, but what else? I've taken a bunch of crim type classes and I've never learned anything about ethics. Kinda worried ill be given a hypo and miss a huge ethics issue.

brassmonkey7
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby brassmonkey7 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:30 pm

BlueLotus wrote:
Borhas wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:It is said on here often that past work with victims is a huge red flag for PDs, and often merits a ding at the screener stage (esp. for folks with DA experience)

BUT, what if you're applying for a non-criminal division of a PD's office?

For instance, the Child Advocacy Unit at Defender Association of Philadelphia, Child and Family Law Unit of CPCS, and Office of the Law Guardian at NJPD represent children in civil family court proceedings.

I've never had any prosecutorial experience, but before law school I did work on a hotline for DV survivors, and last summer I interned at an immigration legal aid org with undocumented clients seeking U visas and VAWA self-petitions (not exclusively, did other stuff too, like cancellation of removal, DACA, SIJ, etc.) . Will those experiences be "bad" even if I'm applying for a civil division of a PD's office like those I mentioned above?

I wouldn't worry about it.


Thanks! Comforting and surprising to hear. Outright prosecutorial work (as opposed to like helping battered women with divorce/custody/support issues) is still a red flag I'd assume, even for civil legal aid.

It's interesting how much easier it is to switch from PD-->DA compared to vice versa.

Does anyone know the starting salary for Philly PD? Do they hire pre-bar?


I hate to be pessimistic but I would caution that doing victim-sympathetic civil legal aid could be contentious to an abuse and neglect division of a PD office if you are representing parents and not children. I know some PD offices also encompass the minor's counsel/GAL role in an abuse and neglect cases and for those types of position, prior victim sympathetic work will probably not be an issue. But, if you're representing parents you might see some questions. After all, you could easily represent a father whose child has been taken away because he beat up the kid's mother or the child could be in protective custody because the father molested that kid- in that instance, a division of a PD office that represents parents might push you a little on how your past experience with abuse victims could impede your ability to represent a parent. Just something to keep in mind. Good luck with everything!

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deadpanic
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby deadpanic » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:43 pm

gdane wrote:What kind of "ethics" questions can I expect in my upcoming interviews with prosecutors offices? I know about Brady stuff, but what else? I've taken a bunch of crim type classes and I've never learned anything about ethics. Kinda worried ill be given a hypo and miss a huge ethics issue.


Is it your first interview with the office?

Obviously this will vary by office, but you probably won't get any hypos in the first interview. I've heard for the second interview you may get a disclosure question like Brady or possibly if you & the victim have a difference in how to proceed with the case. Beyond that I am not really sure. It is talked about in this thread in earlier pages, but I couldn't say for sure where.

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gdane
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby gdane » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:47 pm

Yea I saw the dead witness question earlier in this thread (although noone gave a solid answer). All the interviews I have coming up are first interviews. I know for certain though that Miami will be asking me hypos. Not too concerned about substantive crim pro questions. But kinda concerned about ethics questions because I don't have the slightest inkling about them.

Thanks for the advice.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:58 pm

For ethics stuff, maybe reread the ABA rules specific to prosecutors (and take a look at the comments)?

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gdane
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby gdane » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:59 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:For ethics stuff, maybe reread the ABA rules specific to prosecutors (and take a look at the comments)?

Will do. Thank you.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:34 am

BlueLotus wrote:It is said on here often that past work with victims is a huge red flag for PDs, and often merits a ding at the screener stage (esp. for folks with DA experience)

BUT, what if you're applying for a non-criminal division of a PD's office?

For instance, the Child Advocacy Unit at Defender Association of Philadelphia, Child and Family Law Unit of CPCS, and Office of the Law Guardian at NJPD represent children in civil family court proceedings.

I've never had any prosecutorial experience, but before law school I did work on a hotline for DV survivors, and last summer I interned at an immigration legal aid org with undocumented clients seeking U visas and VAWA self-petitions (not exclusively, did other stuff too, like cancellation of removal, DACA, SIJ, etc.) . Will those experiences be "bad" even if I'm applying for a civil division of a PD's office like those I mentioned above?


I don't think working a hotline for DV survivors/working on immigration law is going to hurt you that much for PD positions, especially since these will be predictable interview questions that you can prepare awesome answers for ahead of time. I used to work on a rape crisis hotline, and every PD office I interviewed for pushed me on it, and it didn't prevent me from getting the summer positions I wanted (disclaimer: I have only successfully obtained summer/semester positions at PD's offices and have not yet interviewed for post-bar positions, so take what I say with a grain of salt.) I think your experience specifically can be spun positively. A lot of criminal defendants are themselves victims of abuse at some point in their lives, and being able to approach that issue sensitively will help you a lot. Additionally, familiarity with immigration law is crazy helpful, especially given how complicated immigration law is. You will get a lot of clients who are immigrants, and understanding the intricacies of U-visas and VAWA might help you strategize. Bottom line, I don't think it will hurt you very much if you have good explanations prepared.

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spleenworship
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby spleenworship » Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:01 pm

Anyone have any info on about how long most EJW employers take to offer you, and how long you have to decide?


I have it on good authority I'm a very good candidate at my local PDs office. But they don't interview until March and April and don't hire until June. I'd rather stay local, but even as a good candidate there are no guarantees. I'm just looking for confirmation, I guess, that if I get an EJW offer theres not going to be a realistic way to figure out if I can stay local before I accept.

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Tanicius
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Tanicius » Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:14 pm

spleenworship wrote:Anyone have any info on about how long most EJW employers take to offer you, and how long you have to decide?


I have it on good authority I'm a very good candidate at my local PDs office. But they don't interview until March and April and don't hire until June. I'd rather stay local, but even as a good candidate there are no guarantees. I'm just looking for confirmation, I guess, that if I get an EJW offer theres not going to be a realistic way to figure out if I can stay local before I accept.


Well, we're supposed to hear back tomorrow if we got preselected for EJW interviews, right?

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BlueLotus
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby BlueLotus » Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:44 pm

^The earliest they can select ppl for interviews is tmrw, but they have until Oct. 3 to make selections (see http://www.equaljusticeworks.org/law-sc ... careerfair)

gr8scOtt!
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby gr8scOtt! » Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:44 pm

^scooped!




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