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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:32 pm
by Anonymous User
Void wrote:Just accepted a PD offer, from an office to which I originally applied completely cold. (Went to their website and shot my materials to the generic HR email address, without even knowing whether they were hiring). No ties to the state at all, and I have to take their bar exam next year.

Me: T2 (second tier, not Top 2), top 15%, e-board on secondary journal, fairly strong law school PD/Public interest experience & coursework.

Sorry but I don't want to be more specific on this public forum. PM me for deets.

Don't give up, guys!


Congrats!

So what do you do for the first year when you're not bar certified in the state?

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:17 am
by spleenworship
Void wrote:Just accepted a PD offer, from an office to which I originally applied completely cold. (Went to their website and shot my materials to the generic HR email address, without even knowing whether they were hiring). No ties to the state at all, and I have to take their bar exam next year.

Me: T2 (second tier, not Top 2), top 15%, e-board on secondary journal, fairly strong law school PD/Public interest experience & coursework.

Sorry but I don't want to be more specific on this public forum. PM me for deets.

Don't give up, guys!



CONGRATS!


p.s. DO School = Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:04 am
by Void
Thanks, everyone!

Anonymous User wrote:
Void wrote:Just accepted a PD offer, from an office to which I originally applied completely cold. (Went to their website and shot my materials to the generic HR email address, without even knowing whether they were hiring). No ties to the state at all, and I have to take their bar exam next year.

Me: T2 (second tier, not Top 2), top 15%, e-board on secondary journal, fairly strong law school PD/Public interest experience & coursework.

Sorry but I don't want to be more specific on this public forum. PM me for deets.

Don't give up, guys!


Congrats!

So what do you do for the first year when you're not bar certified in the state?


Thanks! Like I said, feel free to PM me for details. (I would PM you but for some reason you posted this question anonymously!)

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:07 am
by Void
spleenworship wrote:

CONGRATS!


p.s. DO School = Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine.


Ok now I'm confused. What do the number of medical schools have to do with PD/DA jobs? Or is this a joke?

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:33 pm
by Tanicius
So... am I the only "3L/4L" who signed up for the EJW job fair and am not seeing even half the employers that are supposed to be there in my eligible job listings? No Legal Aid, no Bronx, no Harmlem, no New Orleans... In fact, the only entry-level public defender organizations I can access for applications are Colorado and Mecklenburg.

Three others are visible - Gideon's Promise, Alaska, Georgia Capital - are just internships.

ALL the other public defender agencies are listed under the "employer directory" but it does not seem possible to actually apply to them. Are most of these offices just showing up for the table talk?

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:30 pm
by Borhas
Void wrote:Just accepted a PD offer, from an office to which I originally applied completely cold. (Went to their website and shot my materials to the generic HR email address, without even knowing whether they were hiring). No ties to the state at all, and I have to take their bar exam next year.

Me: T2 (second tier, not Top 2), top 15%, e-board on secondary journal, fairly strong law school PD/Public interest experience & coursework.

Sorry but I don't want to be more specific on this public forum. PM me for deets.

Don't give up, guys!


Congrats fella

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:50 pm
by robin600
shit meant PM...

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:54 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:I am applying for jobs as a 3L:

have any of you seen a good guide online of how to do well in the closing argument/summation part of a PD interview? I've never given a closing argument before and was hoping for some guidance from somewhere.

Also, a huge part of why I want to do this job is because a number of people close to me when I was growing up had contact with the system. I was too young to know exactly what they were being charged with or how much time they faced (one is still doing time) but I knew what it felt like to have the threat of the government taking a family member away. However, I am white and I know I grew up with way more advantages than most of our clients and I'm worried that my narrative will just come off as a spoiled kid from the suburbs who didn't know how good he had it.

I also don't know how personal you are supposed to get when an application or an interviewer asks you about why your life experience makes you want to be a PD. My answer for 2L internship interviews was basically "family with long history of public service and I PD'd last summer" which is definitely part of why I want to do this, but I feel like adding more of the personal reason may not only make me a more compelling candidate, but also make me feel less weird for holding back in interviews.

You need to put this story in your cover letter seriously. I am a white kid too, but I grew up poor and I have a very very personal and compelling story on why I chose the PD route. I talked with the person who interviewed me for both internships and each said my story was why they hired me. Use it. People want to see true passion not family ties.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:19 pm
by Tanicius
Tanicius wrote:So... am I the only "3L/4L" who signed up for the EJW job fair and am not seeing even half the employers that are supposed to be there in my eligible job listings? No Legal Aid, no Bronx, no Harmlem, no New Orleans... In fact, the only entry-level public defender organizations I can access for applications are Colorado and Mecklenburg.

Three others are visible - Gideon's Promise, Alaska, Georgia Capital - are just internships.

ALL the other public defender agencies are listed under the "employer directory" but it does not seem possible to actually apply to them. Are most of these offices just showing up for the table talk?


Anyone see otherwise?

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:47 pm
by adonai
Is second chairing a jury trial significantly good experience? Or is it just seen as a file runner sitting in the seat next to the attorney? Is the experience worth giving up time that could be spent arguing prelims/motions?

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:56 pm
by jml8756
adonai wrote:Is second chairing a jury trial significantly good experience? Or is it just seen as a file runner sitting in the seat next to the attorney? Is the experience worth giving up time that could be spent arguing prelims/motions?


I guess it depends on whether you're running files or whether you're doing actual examinations/open/close. It's great experience if it's substantive. A lot of law clerks don't get to do jury trials at all.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:12 pm
by target
Tanicius wrote:
Tanicius wrote:So... am I the only "3L/4L" who signed up for the EJW job fair and am not seeing even half the employers that are supposed to be there in my eligible job listings? No Legal Aid, no Bronx, no Harmlem, no New Orleans... In fact, the only entry-level public defender organizations I can access for applications are Colorado and Mecklenburg.

Three others are visible - Gideon's Promise, Alaska, Georgia Capital - are just internships.

ALL the other public defender agencies are listed under the "employer directory" but it does not seem possible to actually apply to them. Are most of these offices just showing up for the table talk?


Anyone see otherwise?


I looked at the list on the day registration opened and it looked disappointing. I don't know if it's worth it to even register for the fair. Do you remember if there is even a registration deadline?

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:27 pm
by spleenworship
Tanicius wrote:
Tanicius wrote:So... am I the only "3L/4L" who signed up for the EJW job fair and am not seeing even half the employers that are supposed to be there in my eligible job listings? No Legal Aid, no Bronx, no Harmlem, no New Orleans... In fact, the only entry-level public defender organizations I can access for applications are Colorado and Mecklenburg.

Three others are visible - Gideon's Promise, Alaska, Georgia Capital - are just internships.

ALL the other public defender agencies are listed under the "employer directory" but it does not seem possible to actually apply to them. Are most of these offices just showing up for the table talk?


Anyone see otherwise?


They seem to be adding more every day. I'm guessing a lot of these employers won't have their ads up until next week or so.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:28 pm
by spleenworship
Void wrote:
spleenworship wrote:

CONGRATS!


p.s. DO School = Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine.


Ok now I'm confused. What do the number of medical schools have to do with PD/DA jobs? Or is this a joke?



My wife has promised to be my sugar momma. But she needs to finishe her pre-read and get into med school first.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:50 am
by Void
spleenworship wrote:
Void wrote:
spleenworship wrote:

CONGRATS!


p.s. DO School = Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine.


Ok now I'm confused. What do the number of medical schools have to do with PD/DA jobs? Or is this a joke?



My wife has promised to be my sugar momma. But she needs to finishe her pre-read and get into med school first.


Ah, that makes sense. Good plan!

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:34 pm
by Tanicius
target wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
Tanicius wrote:So... am I the only "3L/4L" who signed up for the EJW job fair and am not seeing even half the employers that are supposed to be there in my eligible job listings? No Legal Aid, no Bronx, no Harmlem, no New Orleans... In fact, the only entry-level public defender organizations I can access for applications are Colorado and Mecklenburg.

Three others are visible - Gideon's Promise, Alaska, Georgia Capital - are just internships.

ALL the other public defender agencies are listed under the "employer directory" but it does not seem possible to actually apply to them. Are most of these offices just showing up for the table talk?


Anyone see otherwise?


I looked at the list on the day registration opened and it looked disappointing. I don't know if it's worth it to even register for the fair. Do you remember if there is even a registration deadline?



That's what I'm wondering. Obviously if these are the only two offices and they don't grant interviews to me, I'll get the money back and not go.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:06 pm
by spleenworship
Tanicius wrote:
That's what I'm wondering. Obviously if these are the only two offices and they don't grant interviews to me, I'll get the money back and not go.


The Kentucky one that says clerk turns into an attorney position after bar passage it appears... so that's three. Now they just gotta add two more to make it worth my while to buy a ticket to DC.

ETA: It appears Melkenburg is hiring only one (1) lawyer. So chances there are pretty effing low. Ugh.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:25 pm
by Tanicius
spleenworship wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
That's what I'm wondering. Obviously if these are the only two offices and they don't grant interviews to me, I'll get the money back and not go.


The Kentucky one that says clerk turns into an attorney position after bar passage it appears... so that's three. Now they just gotta add two more to make it worth my while to buy a ticket to DC.

ETA: It appears Melkenburg is hiring only one (1) lawyer. So chances there are pretty effing low. Ugh.


What? What even is the point of that? Why don't they simply hire someone from NC? They are simultaneously denying NC students a chance as well as causing students from far away to spend a lot of money for no reason.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:23 pm
by spleenworship
Tanicius wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
That's what I'm wondering. Obviously if these are the only two offices and they don't grant interviews to me, I'll get the money back and not go.


The Kentucky one that says clerk turns into an attorney position after bar passage it appears... so that's three. Now they just gotta add two more to make it worth my while to buy a ticket to DC.

ETA: It appears Melkenburg is hiring only one (1) lawyer. So chances there are pretty effing low. Ugh.


What? What even is the point of that? Why don't they simply hire someone from NC? They are simultaneously denying NC students a chance as well as causing students from far away to spend a lot of money for no reason.


Maybe they hire 10 people from NC and one from out of state every year for "diversity" or something?

I don't know. I just know I ain't holding my breath for that job, ya know?

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:30 pm
by Anonymous User
spleenworship wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
That's what I'm wondering. Obviously if these are the only two offices and they don't grant interviews to me, I'll get the money back and not go.


The Kentucky one that says clerk turns into an attorney position after bar passage it appears... so that's three. Now they just gotta add two more to make it worth my while to buy a ticket to DC.

ETA: It appears Melkenburg is hiring only one (1) lawyer. So chances there are pretty effing low. Ugh.

How do you know this?

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:33 pm
by robin600
It's looking like a PD bloodbath this year, nobody is hiring

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:34 pm
by spleenworship
Anonymous User wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
That's what I'm wondering. Obviously if these are the only two offices and they don't grant interviews to me, I'll get the money back and not go.


The Kentucky one that says clerk turns into an attorney position after bar passage it appears... so that's three. Now they just gotta add two more to make it worth my while to buy a ticket to DC.

ETA: It appears Melkenburg is hiring only one (1) lawyer. So chances there are pretty effing low. Ugh.

How do you know this?



Click on "Staff Attorney" on the job posting and at the top it says "No. of Openings: 1"

ETA: Compare that to the 50 for Colorado...

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:36 pm
by spleenworship
robin600 wrote:It's looking like a PD bloodbath this year, nobody is hiring



Yeah. This isn't looking good.

Still, I suppose things could turn around.

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:14 pm
by Anonymous User
Why doe SF PD allow its interns to speak on the record but assigns its post-bars to the research unit? Also what kind of people do the volunteer attorney program? Who can afford to live in SF and work for free? I'm guessing they get fellowship funding or something?

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:35 pm
by Tanicius
Anonymous User wrote:Why doe SF PD allow its interns to speak on the record but assigns its post-bars to the research unit? Also what kind of people do the volunteer attorney program? Who can afford to live in SF and work for free? I'm guessing they get fellowship funding or something?


Most offices do things this way. I honestly don't understand why post-bars are given that type of work, when it seems to be both a better learning opportunity to let them do more substantive work, as well as a weight off the shoulders of overworked misdo attorneys.