How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

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msuz
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby msuz » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:21 pm

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Last edited by msuz on Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:25 pm

lawbanshee wrote:
well, the "other articles" were actually one article about a New Jersey DA office

recession sucks, welcome to the economy


I don't need a "welcome." I've been grinding it out in this devilish farce of a "profession" since you guys were in junior high school.

Anyone planning on a "career" as a DA or PD is delusional to the point of mental illness.

Hell, Kansas isn't even prosectuing domestic violence anymore:

http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml

The trend is simply to prosecute less cases rather than hire more DA's. Prolly a good idea, we have too many laws as it is.

Guess reading isn'y your thing: the other article was about the NJ Legal Aid laying off 1/4 of its lawyers this year.


Also the NJ AG office no longer hires attorneys, they take on unpaid volunteers who are fully licensed and bar admitted. Same thing for NJ DOJ (US Attorney's) office.


This is a trend all across the country. I suggest you listen to Peter Schiff and Gerald Celente for an idea of how well this "recovery" is apt to play out. "Screwed" doesn't begin to define your situation.


Regarding the NJ AG, this is not true. They just hired at least a few new attorneys and as well as their volunteer rockstars. And while it's true the USAO in NJ is under a hiring freeze, that happens about every 5 years or so. Besides, that wouldn't affect most of us looking for right-out-of-law-school employment anyway since they don't hire out of law school.

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Borhas
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Borhas » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:59 pm

msuz wrote:
lawbanshee wrote:
Just ignore this guy, he doesn't know anything about these careers beyond what he's read on the internet. Don't let him derail the thread with this shit.


Admitted to both NY & NJ bars since 2003. Please inform us which bars you've passed and your experience working as an attorney and searching for jobs in this market. Thanks.

Wait so correct me if Im wrong... You were admitted to the bar in NY/NJ 2003, graduated top 1/3 of your class at Brooklyn on a Journal, and you've been doing doc review ever since? Isn't the median salary from your school like 140K?

Not trying to be an ass, but if you are just bitter and ranting its kind of annoying.


Brooklyn and law school's in general make up BS employment info

but PLEASE don't derail this thread. There are plenty of other threads for these discussions.

lawbanshee
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby lawbanshee » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:05 pm

Wait so correct me if Im wrong... You were admitted to the bar in NY/NJ 2003, graduated top 1/3 of your class at Brooklyn on a Journal, and you've been doing doc review ever since?


No. I worked at several small firms, highest salary was 55 K back in late 2007.

Here's a typical small law/small firm job in NYC fresh off craigslist:

--LinkRemoved--

It's a scam where you file fraudulent robo-signed docs on behalf of out of state "affiliate" law firms. Great way to lose your license right outta the box. Great salary too: 42 K will go a long way in the NYC area nowadays.

And FYI the only thing being "derailed" is the remainder of you kids' adult lives if you insist on making the law school mistake.

Oh, and here's a small firm in NJ offering a whopping $15 an hour:

--LinkRemoved--

This is reality kids. These jobs are the norm, not the outliers. Failing to appreciate that is a sure path to poverty if you take out loans for a JD.

HTH

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Tanicius
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Tanicius » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:49 pm

lawbanshee wrote:
Wait so correct me if Im wrong... You were admitted to the bar in NY/NJ 2003, graduated top 1/3 of your class at Brooklyn on a Journal, and you've been doing doc review ever since?


I'm bored and need to poop.

HTH



GTFO

Anonymous User
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:14 pm

Just to revive this thread a bit, has anyone had luck applying to PD offices directly? I didn't apply to the EJW fair because I didn't want to apply to markets where I didn't have ties or a legitimate interest in working- which left me with about 4 offices to apply for at EJW. I've since applied to them directly. I'm just wondering if I made a mistake passing on EJW.

FWIW I interned last summer at a top PD office and go to a T30. I've also been on the fence between firms and PD but I've pretty much struck out at firms and I've got a good PD name backing me now and I do like the work. Hope I didn't royally screw myself by not throwing my hat into the ring at EJW.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:17 pm

Suffolk County (Boston) starts to accept applications at end of month. A buddy of mine who has interned there told me that those who apply in December actually have a better chance. Anyone heard of this?

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HenryClay
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby HenryClay » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:15 pm

Awesome thread with helpful suggestions all around, thanks TLSers! My question for any and all is regarding school choice for ADA employment in NYC. I understand ADA hiring is less about prestige and more about commitment. That being said, would you folks recommend a higher ranked school (T14) outside the market you want to serve as an ADA, or a lower ranked school (T30) in the market your want to practice (with more chances for networking and proving commitment to specific DA's offices during the school year). Thanks for any advice!

Geist13
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Geist13 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:07 am

Anonymous User wrote:Suffolk County (Boston) starts to accept applications at end of month. A buddy of mine who has interned there told me that those who apply in December actually have a better chance. Anyone heard of this?


It's entirely possible (probable even) that he's talking about 1L hiring. It would make perfect sense that December 1Ls would have the best luck because that's the soonest their applications are accepted. In other words, 1L december applicants have the best chance because their applications get in before the other 1Ls. It just wouldn't make sense for them to accept applications and then just put them at the bottom of the pile. It's possible though, I guess.

On another front, does anyone know of DA specific funding out there to apply to. My bitch ass school doesn't really provide funding for students who have unpaid positions. I'll be gunning for Suffolk County pretty hard (among a couple other offices) but can't afford yet another unpaid Summer. I guess there's always work study.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:07 am

HenryClay wrote:Awesome thread with helpful suggestions all around, thanks TLSers! My question for any and all is regarding school choice for ADA employment in NYC. I understand ADA hiring is less about prestige and more about commitment. That being said, would you folks recommend a higher ranked school (T14) outside the market you want to serve as an ADA, or a lower ranked school (T30) in the market your want to practice (with more chances for networking and proving commitment to specific DA's offices during the school year). Thanks for any advice!


Since your interest is NYC specifically, I have it on good authority that Vance is making a concerted effort to hire more "Ivy Leaguers" than Morgenthau did. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that you should go to a top school that has resources for public interest kids (i.e. summer funding, LRAP, etc.)

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npe
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby npe » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
HenryClay wrote:Awesome thread with helpful suggestions all around, thanks TLSers! My question for any and all is regarding school choice for ADA employment in NYC. I understand ADA hiring is less about prestige and more about commitment. That being said, would you folks recommend a higher ranked school (T14) outside the market you want to serve as an ADA, or a lower ranked school (T30) in the market your want to practice (with more chances for networking and proving commitment to specific DA's offices during the school year). Thanks for any advice!


Since your interest is NYC specifically, I have it on good authority that Vance is making a concerted effort to hire more "Ivy Leaguers" than Morgenthau did. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that you should go to a top school that has resources for public interest kids (i.e. summer funding, LRAP, etc.)


Interesting, seeing as Vance is a GULC grad.

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A'nold
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby A'nold » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone know how feasible going from private criminal defense to prosecution or the PD's office is?

I know someone who was in private defense and was just hired by a county DA's office.

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A'nold
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby A'nold » Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:03 pm

So, when should ADA hopefuls start mass mailing counties and cities? Nobody came to OCI here so mailing it is.

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Gettingstarted1928
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Gettingstarted1928 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:52 pm

Since most DA offices don't hire until after graduation when you pass the bar (unlike firms, obviously), it seems like they will look at grades over all three years. Is this accurate?

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HenryClay
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby HenryClay » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
HenryClay wrote:Awesome thread with helpful suggestions all around, thanks TLSers! My question for any and all is regarding school choice for ADA employment in NYC. I understand ADA hiring is less about prestige and more about commitment. That being said, would you folks recommend a higher ranked school (T14) outside the market you want to serve as an ADA, or a lower ranked school (T30) in the market your want to practice (with more chances for networking and proving commitment to specific DA's offices during the school year). Thanks for any advice!


Since your interest is NYC specifically, I have it on good authority that Vance is making a concerted effort to hire more "Ivy Leaguers" than Morgenthau did. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that you should go to a top school that has resources for public interest kids (i.e. summer funding, LRAP, etc.)


Interesting -- I plan to return to the city every summer anyways, so I think your advice is sound. The T14 I'm looking at placed well in DANY and Bronx last year. ITE career service resources really count for a lot, after all. I was @ the NY forum last weekend and kind of underwhelmed by some schools' grasp on anything but biglaw placement (kudos to the Yale reps. though -- really enthusiastic and knowledgeable, totally changed my preconceived notions of them being overly focused on academics)

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HenryClay
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby HenryClay » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:40 pm

Gettingstarted1928 wrote:Since most DA offices don't hire until after graduation when you pass the bar (unlike firms, obviously), it seems like they will look at grades over all three years. Is this accurate?

I only have research and a few friends inside to go on, but my impression is that it really varies office-to-office and state-by-state. I know of offices whose offers are not contingent on passing the bar (well, its more like a formality), and others who won't look at you until you've passed. I also know many offices will give you the courtesy of an early interview if you intern 2L Summer. I imagine what grades they consider is dependent on the specific office's hiring timetable.

On average, I would expect grades/clinics/etc. up to fall 3L to be looked at.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:28 am

HenryClay wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
HenryClay wrote:Awesome thread with helpful suggestions all around, thanks TLSers! My question for any and all is regarding school choice for ADA employment in NYC. I understand ADA hiring is less about prestige and more about commitment. That being said, would you folks recommend a higher ranked school (T14) outside the market you want to serve as an ADA, or a lower ranked school (T30) in the market your want to practice (with more chances for networking and proving commitment to specific DA's offices during the school year). Thanks for any advice!


Since your interest is NYC specifically, I have it on good authority that Vance is making a concerted effort to hire more "Ivy Leaguers" than Morgenthau did. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that you should go to a top school that has resources for public interest kids (i.e. summer funding, LRAP, etc.)


Interesting -- I plan to return to the city every summer anyways, so I think your advice is sound. The T14 I'm looking at placed well in DANY and Bronx last year. ITE career service resources really count for a lot, after all. I was @ the NY forum last weekend and kind of underwhelmed by some schools' grasp on anything but biglaw placement (kudos to the Yale reps. though -- really enthusiastic and knowledgeable, totally changed my preconceived notions of them being overly focused on academics)


Your impression is 100% right, at least in regards to my own T14. I was completely on my own throughout my job searches. But in all fairness, they are trying to shape up their public interest office so even though I personally haven't benefitted, future classes probably will. And at least they had the summer stipends (though they have gotten smaller) and have LRAP, which I really appreciate. But you should probably be prepared to do much of the legwork yourself.

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A'nold
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby A'nold » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
HenryClay wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
HenryClay wrote:Awesome thread with helpful suggestions all around, thanks TLSers! My question for any and all is regarding school choice for ADA employment in NYC. I understand ADA hiring is less about prestige and more about commitment. That being said, would you folks recommend a higher ranked school (T14) outside the market you want to serve as an ADA, or a lower ranked school (T30) in the market your want to practice (with more chances for networking and proving commitment to specific DA's offices during the school year). Thanks for any advice!


Since your interest is NYC specifically, I have it on good authority that Vance is making a concerted effort to hire more "Ivy Leaguers" than Morgenthau did. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that you should go to a top school that has resources for public interest kids (i.e. summer funding, LRAP, etc.)


Interesting -- I plan to return to the city every summer anyways, so I think your advice is sound. The T14 I'm looking at placed well in DANY and Bronx last year. ITE career service resources really count for a lot, after all. I was @ the NY forum last weekend and kind of underwhelmed by some schools' grasp on anything but biglaw placement (kudos to the Yale reps. though -- really enthusiastic and knowledgeable, totally changed my preconceived notions of them being overly focused on academics)


Your impression is 100% right, at least in regards to my own T14. I was completely on my own throughout my job searches. But in all fairness, they are trying to shape up their public interest office so even though I personally haven't benefitted, future classes probably will. And at least they had the summer stipends (though they have gotten smaller) and have LRAP, which I really appreciate. But you should probably be prepared to do much of the legwork yourself.

Which is why it would be great if somebody could tell us when to start mass mailing DA/PD offices.

purr se
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby purr se » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:16 pm

The application period for the Bronx Defenders just closed on the 15th. Has anyone who applied heard anything from them regarding interviews?

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FlanAl
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby FlanAl » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:48 pm

Borhas,

I'm very interested in working at the SD PD office this summer (current 1L). It looks pretty competitive according to their site they don't really take 1L's. I'm a San DIego native but my resume doesn't really scream public interest. Anything I can try to do between now and the application to remedy this? Also about when did you apply last year (I still can't talk to career services). Any advice ITT or via pm would be greatly appreciated.

For the rest of you have you possibly calculated the financial difference between DA/PD and big law? Take SD (with my very limited knowledge) big law starts at like $110-145k and DA/PD $60K. Obviously a big difference but with lrap, lower tax bracket, benefits etc. I was wondering if anyone has figured out how much disposable income they will be missing out on if they go da/pd vs. big law?

I hope that doesn't sound shitty (tell me how much money you could have made) I am genuinely curious and I'm sure some of you have thought about it.

Thanks!

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Flash
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Flash » Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:03 pm

Is anybody going for a spot with the Cook County SA's office?

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A'nold
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby A'nold » Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:54 pm

Flash wrote:Is anybody going for a spot with the Cook County SA's office?

I'd rather not die right now, lol.

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Rocky Estoppel
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Rocky Estoppel » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:29 am

A'nold wrote:
Flash wrote:Is anybody going for a spot with the Cook County SA's office?

I'd rather not die right now, lol.
:?:

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A'nold
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby A'nold » Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:00 pm

Rocky Estoppel wrote:
A'nold wrote:
Flash wrote:Is anybody going for a spot with the Cook County SA's office?

I'd rather not die right now, lol.
:?:

I was just joking about the danger of working in that area. I worked in a county that is nowhere near as crime ridden or dangerous but even while I was there prosecutors were receiving death threats. :)

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Borhas
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Borhas » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:36 pm

FlanAl wrote:Borhas,

I'm very interested in working at the SD PD office this summer (current 1L). It looks pretty competitive according to their site they don't really take 1L's. I'm a San DIego native but my resume doesn't really scream public interest. Anything I can try to do between now and the application to remedy this? Also about when did you apply last year (I still can't talk to career services). Any advice ITT or via pm would be greatly appreciated.

For the rest of you have you possibly calculated the financial difference between DA/PD and big law? Take SD (with my very limited knowledge) big law starts at like $110-145k and DA/PD $60K. Obviously a big difference but with lrap, lower tax bracket, benefits etc. I was wondering if anyone has figured out how much disposable income they will be missing out on if they go da/pd vs. big law?

I hope that doesn't sound shitty (tell me how much money you could have made) I am genuinely curious and I'm sure some of you have thought about it.

Thanks!


1. volunteer in some sort of program that helps poor people as soon as you can
2. apply as soon as you can. I applied at PI/PS day, so it was sort of an OCI type experience. It's always better to apply early, even if you have no grades
3. mention that you are a San Diego native in your cover letter

hope that helps, if you get an interview I posted something about my interview in this thread, good luck!




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