How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

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caveman2
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby caveman2 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:50 pm

Unfortunately, there just aren't a lot of MSU law grads in Utah (as you can imagine). I've only found one guy actually, and he works for one of the state agencies. I'm definitely going to try and get acquainted with him, but he's my only prospective link so far. I understand no one can predict the future, but I thought I would at least throw the question out there on the off chance someone might know something. I am for sure going to work my guts out and earn as many brownie points as possible with my boss this summer, but he's the FPD in the capital unit (as in, there's only one in Utah and he's it) and other than maybe putting me in touch with other people and giving me a good reference, he's not going to be able to put me directly into a job. I'm going to have to do the legwork and I know that.

caveman2
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby caveman2 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:56 pm

anonymous user wrote:Dude...not a good idea. Were you looking for the one summer job that would make it most difficult to get a prosecution gig? Because capital habeas would definitely be a contender.

If you couldn't find an unpaid internship with a prosecutor's office this summer, you didn't look hard enough.


Thank you for that completely unhelpful comment. And believe me, I looked plenty hard enough. But when there are certain factors at play, as there were in my situation, sometimes you have to settle for something less than ideal. And like I said before, I'm going to be doing a fall internship where I can get some trial experience. Frankly, I'm thrilled that I even ended up with what I did.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:20 pm

caveman2 wrote:
anonymous user wrote:Dude...not a good idea. Were you looking for the one summer job that would make it most difficult to get a prosecution gig? Because capital habeas would definitely be a contender.

If you couldn't find an unpaid internship with a prosecutor's office this summer, you didn't look hard enough.


Thank you for that completely unhelpful comment. And believe me, I looked plenty hard enough. But when there are certain factors at play, as there were in my situation, sometimes you have to settle for something less than ideal. And like I said before, I'm going to be doing a fall internship where I can get some trial experience. Frankly, I'm thrilled that I even ended up with what I did.


Ok here's the thing about capital habeas defenders. They are the truest of the true believers. They are dealing with clients who are going to die. A lot of defense attorneys are able to compartmentalize and get along with prosecutors, but post-conviction capital attorneys fall into a whole other category where they take things extremely personally. They see prosecutors as people who are trying to kill their client. There is going to be no collegiality there toward prosecutors. They will not like that you want to be a prosecutor. They will not have any constructive relationships with prosecutors. And they likely will not exactly be bending over backwards to help you get a job with a prosecutor.

If you absolutely could not get a prosecution internship this summer (which...some offices take everybody, so what happened?), then you should have gone anywhere else but a capital habeas unit. Working for a judge would have been a great option.

Also, by the time fall semester of your 3L year rolls around, you will already be applying to prosecutors offices that hire before the bar. If you don't have any prosecution experience on your resume before then, it will be too late.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:For anyone that applied to neighborhood defender service - Harlem, did you notice that the fellowship is no longer posted on their website? Do you think this means they lost funding for it or are no longer accepting applications?

They hired already.

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gdane
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby gdane » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:19 pm

caveman2 wrote:
anonymous user wrote:Dude...not a good idea. Were you looking for the one summer job that would make it most difficult to get a prosecution gig? Because capital habeas would definitely be a contender.

If you couldn't find an unpaid internship with a prosecutor's office this summer, you didn't look hard enough.


Thank you for that completely unhelpful comment. And believe me, I looked plenty hard enough. But when there are certain factors at play, as there were in my situation, sometimes you have to settle for something less than ideal. And like I said before, I'm going to be doing a fall internship where I can get some trial experience. Frankly, I'm thrilled that I even ended up with what I did.

This comment is not unhelpful at all; it's true.

Have you looked into state Attorney Generals? A lot of them all over the country are still hiring 2L's like in PA, TX, and, for sure, Florida. Do some research and I'm sure you'll find something.

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kay2016
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby kay2016 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:37 pm

Read the whole thread... Thanks everyone for all the info.


0l tag.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:37 pm

caveman2 wrote:
anonymous user wrote:Dude...not a good idea. Were you looking for the one summer job that would make it most difficult to get a prosecution gig? Because capital habeas would definitely be a contender.

If you couldn't find an unpaid internship with a prosecutor's office this summer, you didn't look hard enough.


Thank you for that completely unhelpful comment. And believe me, I looked plenty hard enough. But when there are certain factors at play, as there were in my situation, sometimes you have to settle for something less than ideal. And like I said before, I'm going to be doing a fall internship where I can get some trial experience. Frankly, I'm thrilled that I even ended up with what I did.



I'm not going to quite disagree with what has been said, but I don't think its the death blow others are making it out to be. A lot of prosecutors are against the death penalty. Also, at my office, one of the big 4 (Manhattan, LA, Miami and Chicago) there were at least 6 people in my class who interned at Public Defender's Offices. And one guy who got up and openly stated he was looking forward to being a defense lawyer. I also know of at least 5 people in another of the big 4 who spent time working as a PD intern in law school.

caveman2
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby caveman2 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
caveman2 wrote:
anonymous user wrote:Dude...not a good idea. Were you looking for the one summer job that would make it most difficult to get a prosecution gig? Because capital habeas would definitely be a contender.

If you couldn't find an unpaid internship with a prosecutor's office this summer, you didn't look hard enough.


Thank you for that completely unhelpful comment. And believe me, I looked plenty hard enough. But when there are certain factors at play, as there were in my situation, sometimes you have to settle for something less than ideal. And like I said before, I'm going to be doing a fall internship where I can get some trial experience. Frankly, I'm thrilled that I even ended up with what I did.



I'm not going to quite disagree with what has been said, but I don't think its the death blow others are making it out to be. A lot of prosecutors are against the death penalty. Also, at my office, one of the big 4 (Manhattan, LA, Miami and Chicago) there were at least 6 people in my class who interned at Public Defender's Offices. And one guy who got up and openly stated he was looking forward to being a defense lawyer. I also know of at least 5 people in another of the big 4 who spent time working as a PD intern in law school.


I know, right? Sheesh. Thank you for being a little more realistic about it. One thing I really dislike about this site is that it seems everyone adheres to the same mentality, which is "If you don't do X, Y, and Z, in exactly that order, then you might as well kill yourself." Newsflash: there's not just one way to do things. Sure, there are general guidelines you should follow if you want to maximize your chances of getting a job, but there's no one way that works for everyone or is even an option for everyone all of the time. I couldn't afford to just get an (!UNPAID!) job anywhere in the country and zip off wherever for the whole summer. I was pretty geographically limited, actually. The FPD was the only offer I got, and I was happy to get it because the subject matter is probably what I am interested in most. And no one even stopped to consider that I had to talk my way into that job in the first place because of my prior DA experience. I told the FPD that I wanted to get experience on both sides because I wanted to make an informed decision when I picked a side, and because I think you can't truly be a great defender or prosecutor without having an appreciation and understanding of how your adversary thinks. Yes, at the current moment I am predisposed to the prosecution side and I am fairly confident that that is what I will still want to do in a year, but I can't be sure of that unless I dip my toe in the defense, now can I? So everyone who thinks my boss is going to be spiteful at the end of the summer if I ask him to recommend me to some prosecutors after I've done a good job for him are, in my opinion, very small-minded. Do they seriously believe someone would be that spiteful and adopt such a shallow mentality? If so, then I'm really glad I'm not working for whomever they've been hanging around. Everyone seems to forget so easily that defenders are prosecutors are technically on the same freaking team-->that of the people.

Not to mention that now when I graduate I will be very well-rounded, having Moot Court and trial AND habeas experience. Habeas experience is actually a very valuable thing to have, considering how confusing it is and how generally despised it is.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:48 pm

caveman2 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
caveman2 wrote:
anonymous user wrote:Dude...not a good idea. Were you looking for the one summer job that would make it most difficult to get a prosecution gig? Because capital habeas would definitely be a contender.

If you couldn't find an unpaid internship with a prosecutor's office this summer, you didn't look hard enough.


Thank you for that completely unhelpful comment. And believe me, I looked plenty hard enough. But when there are certain factors at play, as there were in my situation, sometimes you have to settle for something less than ideal. And like I said before, I'm going to be doing a fall internship where I can get some trial experience. Frankly, I'm thrilled that I even ended up with what I did.



I'm not going to quite disagree with what has been said, but I don't think its the death blow others are making it out to be. A lot of prosecutors are against the death penalty. Also, at my office, one of the big 4 (Manhattan, LA, Miami and Chicago) there were at least 6 people in my class who interned at Public Defender's Offices. And one guy who got up and openly stated he was looking forward to being a defense lawyer. I also know of at least 5 people in another of the big 4 who spent time working as a PD intern in law school.


I know, right? Sheesh. Thank you for being a little more realistic about it. One thing I really dislike about this site is that it seems everyone adheres to the same mentality, which is "If you don't do X, Y, and Z, in exactly that order, then you might as well kill yourself." Newsflash: there's not just one way to do things. Sure, there are general guidelines you should follow if you want to maximize your chances of getting a job, but there's no one way that works for everyone or is even an option for everyone all of the time. I couldn't afford to just get an (!UNPAID!) job anywhere in the country and zip off wherever for the whole summer. I was pretty geographically limited, actually. The FPD was the only offer I got, and I was happy to get it because the subject matter is probably what I am interested in most. And no one even stopped to consider that I had to talk my way into that job in the first place because of my prior DA experience. I told the FPD that I wanted to get experience on both sides because I wanted to make an informed decision when I picked a side, and because I think you can't truly be a great defender or prosecutor without having an appreciation and understanding of how your adversary thinks. Yes, at the current moment I am predisposed to the prosecution side and I am fairly confident that that is what I will still want to do in a year, but I can't be sure of that unless I dip my toe in the defense, now can I? So everyone who thinks my boss is going to be spiteful at the end of the summer if I ask him to recommend me to some prosecutors after I've done a good job for him are, in my opinion, very small-minded. Do they seriously believe someone would be that spiteful and adopt such a shallow mentality? If so, then I'm really glad I'm not working for whomever they've been hanging around. Everyone seems to forget so easily that defenders are prosecutors are technically on the same freaking team-->that of the people.

Not to mention that now when I graduate I will be very well-rounded, having Moot Court and trial AND habeas experience. Habeas experience is actually a very valuable thing to have, considering how confusing it is and how generally despised it is.


Bro, you come on this board looking for advice and insight on how to get a job in prosecution after you graduate. There are people here who have been through this process before you and sharing their honest thoughts, even if it sounds like harsh criticism. Is anyone trying to say there is an exact way to go about it? No. But understand that prosecution jobs are really hard to get these days - in some ways harder than Big Law. So if you're not sure about prosecution or defense that's one thing. But if you're pretty sure you want prosecution, there are things you do right from the start that will make you the most competitive candidate you can possibly be. Those things include (1) networking; (2) prosecution experience; and (3) trial experience. And you need to fit that stuff in by the end of your 2L summer. Time you spend doing habeas stuff is time you're spending not doing those other things, and you're also running the risk of demonstrating to the prosecutors offices that you're not committed to prosecution.

Should prosecutors offices hire people with all different types of experience? Sure. Would it make them better offices? Maybe. Is that how they operate in practice? Not particularly. So you can try and blaze your trail of well-roundedness if you want, and in all seriousness good luck with that, but don't get defensive when people give you some cautionary advice about the hiring process you're preparing for.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:36 pm

To the above poster responding to caveman. I'm one of a handful of actual prosecutors who actually post in this thread. But I would say that the vast majority of the people dispensing advice in this thread are 1L and 2L's and maybe a handful of 3Ls. My point being is that a lot of them aren't lawyers and have no idea what the fuck it looks like on the other side.

I have an extremely, extremely limited role for the hiring at my office and I can tell you that a lot of the things said in this thread are true, a lot of them aren't true. And a lot of them are greatly exaggerated.

The biggest example I can give is this bullshit about if you want to be a Prosecutor you can't have any experience at all as a public defender. It's not ideal. But, there are too many people who got hired with me who spent a summer or semester as a PD for it to be true. There are too many high ranking people in my office who came straight from a PD's office for it to be true. Hell, we have one person who had offers from both the PD and DA in my district/county.

So, while the poster was being a little overly sensitive because he wasn't getting the answer he wanted; the answers he was getting were largely from people who didn't know what they fuck they were talking about beyond the experience that others have posted in this thread.

And again, in regards to Federal Habeas. The poster could easily address that in a cover letter. There are easily defined benefits for a prosecutor spending 10 weeks working with the truest of the true believers.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:To the above poster responding to caveman. I'm one of a handful of actual prosecutors who actually post in this thread. But I would say that the vast majority of the people dispensing advice in this thread are 1L and 2L's and maybe a handful of 3Ls. My point being is that a lot of them aren't lawyers and have no idea what the fuck it looks like on the other side.

I have an extremely, extremely limited role for the hiring at my office and I can tell you that a lot of the things said in this thread are true, a lot of them aren't true. And a lot of them are greatly exaggerated.

The biggest example I can give is this bullshit about if you want to be a Prosecutor you can't have any experience at all as a public defender. It's not ideal. But, there are too many people who got hired with me who spent a summer or semester as a PD for it to be true. There are too many high ranking people in my office who came straight from a PD's office for it to be true. Hell, we have one person who had offers from both the PD and DA in my district/county.

So, while the poster was being a little overly sensitive because he wasn't getting the answer he wanted; the answers he was getting were largely from people who didn't know what they fuck they were talking about beyond the experience that others have posted in this thread.

And again, in regards to Federal Habeas. The poster could easily address that in a cover letter. There are easily defined benefits for a prosecutor spending 10 weeks working with the truest of the true believers.


Great. Maybe you can hook up caveman with a job at your office full of former PDs. To the other students in this forum wondering how to get a prosecution job, the advice remains the same: spend your summers at a prosecutor's office. It shouldn't be this complicated.

Nobody is saying the federal habeas gig will absolutely bar caveman from ultimately getting a prosecutor's job. But you have to admit for someone who seems pretty sure he wants to be a prosecutor, it's a lot less than an ideal situation.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:To the above poster responding to caveman. I'm one of a handful of actual prosecutors who actually post in this thread. But I would say that the vast majority of the people dispensing advice in this thread are 1L and 2L's and maybe a handful of 3Ls. My point being is that a lot of them aren't lawyers and have no idea what the fuck it looks like on the other side.

I have an extremely, extremely limited role for the hiring at my office and I can tell you that a lot of the things said in this thread are true, a lot of them aren't true. And a lot of them are greatly exaggerated.

The biggest example I can give is this bullshit about if you want to be a Prosecutor you can't have any experience at all as a public defender. It's not ideal. But, there are too many people who got hired with me who spent a summer or semester as a PD for it to be true. There are too many high ranking people in my office who came straight from a PD's office for it to be true. Hell, we have one person who had offers from both the PD and DA in my district/county.

So, while the poster was being a little overly sensitive because he wasn't getting the answer he wanted; the answers he was getting were largely from people who didn't know what they fuck they were talking about beyond the experience that others have posted in this thread.

And again, in regards to Federal Habeas. The poster could easily address that in a cover letter. There are easily defined benefits for a prosecutor spending 10 weeks working with the truest of the true believers.


Great. Maybe you can hook up caveman with a job at your office full of former PDs. To the other students in this forum wondering how to get a prosecution job, the advice remains the same: spend your summers at a prosecutor's office. It shouldn't be this complicated.

Nobody is saying the federal habeas gig will absolutely bar caveman from ultimately getting a prosecutor's job. But you have to admit for someone who seems pretty sure he wants to be a prosecutor, it's a lot less than an ideal situation.



I freely admit that this isn't the ideal situation. I'm just saying that the issue isn't as black and white as all the people who aren't actually lawyers yet are trying to make it. Yes, ideally you want to spend as much time as possible in prosecutor's offices. Shit happens, and people adapt. It's one thing to tell him that he hasn't made the ideal choice; it's another to act like him doing this is going to be the Mark of Cain on his resume, and that he's a moron for even considering it, and that its going to be functionally impossible to get a job as a prosecutor because of this one gig. I'm just providing some counter balance that seems to occur from the general group think that occurs on TLS in the employment threads.

I'll note that if the situation were reversed and he'd spent any time in a DA's office, then no PD would touch him.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:To the above poster responding to caveman. I'm one of a handful of actual prosecutors who actually post in this thread. But I would say that the vast majority of the people dispensing advice in this thread are 1L and 2L's and maybe a handful of 3Ls. My point being is that a lot of them aren't lawyers and have no idea what the fuck it looks like on the other side.

I have an extremely, extremely limited role for the hiring at my office and I can tell you that a lot of the things said in this thread are true, a lot of them aren't true. And a lot of them are greatly exaggerated.

The biggest example I can give is this bullshit about if you want to be a Prosecutor you can't have any experience at all as a public defender. It's not ideal. But, there are too many people who got hired with me who spent a summer or semester as a PD for it to be true. There are too many high ranking people in my office who came straight from a PD's office for it to be true. Hell, we have one person who had offers from both the PD and DA in my district/county.

So, while the poster was being a little overly sensitive because he wasn't getting the answer he wanted; the answers he was getting were largely from people who didn't know what they fuck they were talking about beyond the experience that others have posted in this thread.

And again, in regards to Federal Habeas. The poster could easily address that in a cover letter. There are easily defined benefits for a prosecutor spending 10 weeks working with the truest of the true believers.


Great. Maybe you can hook up caveman with a job at your office full of former PDs. To the other students in this forum wondering how to get a prosecution job, the advice remains the same: spend your summers at a prosecutor's office. It shouldn't be this complicated.

Nobody is saying the federal habeas gig will absolutely bar caveman from ultimately getting a prosecutor's job. But you have to admit for someone who seems pretty sure he wants to be a prosecutor, it's a lot less than an ideal situation.



I freely admit that this isn't the ideal situation. I'm just saying that the issue isn't as black and white as all the people who aren't actually lawyers yet are trying to make it. Yes, ideally you want to spend as much time as possible in prosecutor's offices. Shit happens, and people adapt. It's one thing to tell him that he hasn't made the ideal choice; it's another to act like him doing this is going to be the Mark of Cain on his resume, and that he's a moron for even considering it, and that its going to be functionally impossible to get a job as a prosecutor because of this one gig. I'm just providing some counter balance that seems to occur from the general group think that occurs on TLS in the employment threads.

I'll note that if the situation were reversed and he'd spent any time in a DA's office, then no PD would touch him.


I think you are misconstruing the previous posts. The point is, there's a difference between doing stuff that won't end his chances, and doing stuff that is going to maximize his chances. If people here are trying to steer him toward the latter, that means they "don't know what they're fucking talking about?"

I for one am not a lawyer, but I'm a 3L who has just gone through an entire year of this hiring process. I had some defense and civil rights stuff on my resume from before law school, and had some serious explaining to do in every single one of my interviews. It's not like they immediately threw my resume in the trash, but it definitely brought a note of skepticism that you probably want to avoid if possible.

If caveman2 had a hard time finding unpaid prosecution internships, does he think it's going to get easier to get an actual job? It's going to get harder x100. So you'll forgive us if we're trying to encourage him to put himself in the best possible position.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:To the above poster responding to caveman. I'm one of a handful of actual prosecutors who actually post in this thread. But I would say that the vast majority of the people dispensing advice in this thread are 1L and 2L's and maybe a handful of 3Ls. My point being is that a lot of them aren't lawyers and have no idea what the fuck it looks like on the other side.

I have an extremely, extremely limited role for the hiring at my office and I can tell you that a lot of the things said in this thread are true, a lot of them aren't true. And a lot of them are greatly exaggerated.

The biggest example I can give is this bullshit about if you want to be a Prosecutor you can't have any experience at all as a public defender. It's not ideal. But, there are too many people who got hired with me who spent a summer or semester as a PD for it to be true. There are too many high ranking people in my office who came straight from a PD's office for it to be true. Hell, we have one person who had offers from both the PD and DA in my district/county.

So, while the poster was being a little overly sensitive because he wasn't getting the answer he wanted; the answers he was getting were largely from people who didn't know what they fuck they were talking about beyond the experience that others have posted in this thread.

And again, in regards to Federal Habeas. The poster could easily address that in a cover letter. There are easily defined benefits for a prosecutor spending 10 weeks working with the truest of the true believers.


Great. Maybe you can hook up caveman with a job at your office full of former PDs. To the other students in this forum wondering how to get a prosecution job, the advice remains the same: spend your summers at a prosecutor's office. It shouldn't be this complicated.

Nobody is saying the federal habeas gig will absolutely bar caveman from ultimately getting a prosecutor's job. But you have to admit for someone who seems pretty sure he wants to be a prosecutor, it's a lot less than an ideal situation.



I freely admit that this isn't the ideal situation. I'm just saying that the issue isn't as black and white as all the people who aren't actually lawyers yet are trying to make it. Yes, ideally you want to spend as much time as possible in prosecutor's offices. Shit happens, and people adapt. It's one thing to tell him that he hasn't made the ideal choice; it's another to act like him doing this is going to be the Mark of Cain on his resume, and that he's a moron for even considering it, and that its going to be functionally impossible to get a job as a prosecutor because of this one gig. I'm just providing some counter balance that seems to occur from the general group think that occurs on TLS in the employment threads.

I'll note that if the situation were reversed and he'd spent any time in a DA's office, then no PD would touch him.


I think you are misconstruing the previous posts. The point is, there's a difference between doing stuff that won't end his chances, and doing stuff that is going to maximize his chances. If people here are trying to steer him toward the latter, that means they "don't know what they're fucking talking about?"

I for one am not a lawyer, but I'm a 3L who has just gone through an entire year of this hiring process. I had some defense and civil rights stuff on my resume from before law school, and had some serious explaining to do in every single one of my interviews. It's not like they immediately threw my resume in the trash, but it definitely brought a note of skepticism that you probably want to avoid if possible.

If caveman2 had a hard time finding unpaid prosecution internships, does he think it's going to get easier to get an actual job? It's going to get harder x100. So you'll forgive us if we're trying to encourage him to put himself in the best possible position.


How is telling him he made a mistake encouraging him to put himself in the best position possible?

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby seatown12 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:57 am

Can we all agree that if you are looking to be a prosecutor (or PD) post-graduation the best thing to do is to get experience working in a prosecutor's (or PD's) office during your summers, and if you fail to do that you might not ruin your chance at ever getting the job you want but you will at the very least have made it significantly more difficult?



And let's put this caveman saga behind us please.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:29 pm

Just got rejected for fall-semester pro-bono internship with fed public defender. Hurts to have an offer to work for free turned down.:( Hopefully it was just because there were plenty of applicants and they were favoring rising 3Ls.

Anyway, it was interesting to check out the office, it's much nicer than the local PD's office, seems like a pretty sweet job. The guy I was talking to said that when they do hire they generally advertise for 5-years experience but usually hold out for someone with 10 years. This was a smaller office, and he said larger offices have more resources for training and hire people with less experience. Still, it's sobering to realize how tough those jobs are to get, when they're even hiring at all.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just got rejected for fall-semester pro-bono internship with fed public defender. Hurts to have an offer to work for free turned down.:( Hopefully it was just because there were plenty of applicants and they were favoring rising 3Ls.

Anyway, it was interesting to check out the office, it's much nicer than the local PD's office, seems like a pretty sweet job. The guy I was talking to said that when they do hire they generally advertise for 5-years experience but usually hold out for someone with 10 years. This was a smaller office, and he said larger offices have more resources for training and hire people with less experience. Still, it's sobering to realize how tough those jobs are to get, when they're even hiring at all.


FWIW, if you want to do PD work post-grad, this might be for the best in some ways. The FPD is exciting in so many ways- the cases can be absolutely bananas, the attorneys are as you saw, highly experienced and often stars from the local PD and private bar, but you won't be doing jury trials; it might even be hard to get into court to argue anything. Local PDs value jury trial experience, motion experience, arraignment experience... if you can spend that semester at the local state PD, seek that out! It will very likely help you more in the long run!

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
FWIW, if you want to do PD work post-grad, this might be for the best in some ways. The FPD is exciting in so many ways- the cases can be absolutely bananas, the attorneys are as you saw, highly experienced and often stars from the local PD and private bar, but you won't be doing jury trials; it might even be hard to get into court to argue anything. Local PDs value jury trial experience, motion experience, arraignment experience... if you can spend that semester at the local state PD, seek that out! It will very likely help you more in the long run!


Thanks bro. I already did a bit of pro-bono stuff with the local county PD my 1L year. It was interseting, but they're really small-time. Not sure how much I'd get out if I went back during the school year. 3L year when I can get a practioner's cert, it would be different. I ended up getting a legal aid job for this summer for various reasons, but it'll help me establish fluency in Spanish (I've already been rated as fluent by the native-speaker interviewer, but I think she's been generous/lax). Do you think it's really important that I get some more PD work on my resume this fall for applying to my 2L summer jobs?

brassmonkey7
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby brassmonkey7 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
FWIW, if you want to do PD work post-grad, this might be for the best in some ways. The FPD is exciting in so many ways- the cases can be absolutely bananas, the attorneys are as you saw, highly experienced and often stars from the local PD and private bar, but you won't be doing jury trials; it might even be hard to get into court to argue anything. Local PDs value jury trial experience, motion experience, arraignment experience... if you can spend that semester at the local state PD, seek that out! It will very likely help you more in the long run!


Thanks bro. I already did a bit of pro-bono stuff with the local county PD my 1L year. It was interseting, but they're really small-time. Not sure how much I'd get out if I went back during the school year. 3L year when I can get a practioner's cert, it would be different. I ended up getting a legal aid job for this summer for various reasons, but it'll help me establish fluency in Spanish (I've already been rated as fluent by the native-speaker interviewer, but I think she's been generous/lax). Do you think it's really important that I get some more PD work on my resume this fall for applying to my 2L summer jobs?


Hey man, I'm the anon from above. Honestly, you can't have too much hands-on PD experience for a PD career in general, so the more the better. Your legal aid job won't hurt you but very few PDs are gonna give it much weight toward your experience level--> PDs tend to have a bit of a one-tracked mind, wanting to see you have as much PD experience, especially courtroom experience possible. Also, be careful in the work you do this summer- try to focus on cases that won't put you in the shoes of "attacking" anyone who could be a potential PD client. So for instance, if someone comes to you and says you can work on an eviction case or a dv case, do the eviction case!

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Lawst
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Lawst » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:12 pm

wbrother wrote:Does anyone have experience spending a summer as Gideon's Promise Clerk? I know TCR is usually spending the summer in the office you want to work in, but would special programs like this give you more of a bump than just working in some random non-target office?


I was a summer law clerk for Gideon's Promise when it was still SPDTC my 1L summer and I highly recommend it. PM me if you want more details.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 03, 2013 4:46 pm

Ok, I'm a 1L who is dead-set on trying to get work as a prosecutor after graduation. I accepted an unpaid internship with the county attorney's office in the state I want to practice in over the summer; however, I was just offered a $15/hour paid position with a legal aid public interest group.

Is showing the dedication to crim law more valuable than the $15/hour position?

Factors to consider:
The county attorney's office said they typically only hire prosecutors who were past interns. In my eyes, it would be a huge advantage for me to be able to show 3 summers with the same position.

If the smarter thing is to go with the public interest position, will I burn any bridges with the county attorney's office who offered me an internship? I'd hate to be screwed down the line by backing out.

I'm barely top half. My stats aren't great. I have no idea how I snagged a paid position. (These were the only two interviews I went on.)

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RaleighStClair
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby RaleighStClair » Fri May 03, 2013 5:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Ok, I'm a 1L who is dead-set on trying to get work as a prosecutor after graduation. I accepted an unpaid internship with the county attorney's office in the state I want to practice in over the summer; however, I was just offered a $15/hour paid position with a legal aid public interest group.

Is showing the dedication to crim law more valuable than the $15/hour position?

Factors to consider:
The county attorney's office said they typically only hire prosecutors who were past interns. In my eyes, it would be a huge advantage for me to be able to show 3 summers with the same position.

If the smarter thing is to go with the public interest position, will I burn any bridges with the county attorney's office who offered me an internship? I'd hate to be screwed down the line by backing out.

I'm barely top half. My stats aren't great. I have no idea how I snagged a paid position. (These were the only two interviews I went on.)


I'm only a 1L as well, so take this with a grain of salt, but I would go with the county attorney's office if you really are dead-set on being a prosecutor. However, the general mantra for 1L summer is "anything legal," and $15/hr (assuming full-time work) would be a nice little chunk of change, but I don't think it's worth sacrificing prosecutorial resume building opportunity - especially in a field of law where the contacts you make and experience you get is so crucial to landing a real job.

I can see both sides to this and you can't really go wrong, but if it were me (and in fact, it was me, as I was in a nearly identical position), I would go with the prosecutor's office.

ETA: Just realized you already accepted the position with the prosecutor. I think, even more so now, it would be a bad move to back out.

seatown12
Posts: 614
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby seatown12 » Fri May 03, 2013 6:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is showing the dedication to crim law the county attorney's office more valuable than the $15/hour position?

YES

because:
Anonymous User wrote:The county attorney's office said they typically only hire prosecutors who were past interns. In my eyes, it would be a huge advantage for me to be able to show 3 summers with the same position.

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Borhas
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Borhas » Sat May 04, 2013 1:37 am

seatown12 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is showing the dedication to crim law the county attorney's office more valuable than the $15/hour position?

YES

because:
Anonymous User wrote:The county attorney's office said they typically only hire prosecutors who were past interns. In my eyes, it would be a huge advantage for me to be able to show 3 summers with the same position.


+1, good job finding a paid PI gig 1L summer, that's quite a feat, but if you want to be a DA you have to work as a DA*

*not 100% necessary but you'd be dumb to do anything less than optimal in this market

Rootbeer
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:58 pm

Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Rootbeer » Mon May 06, 2013 9:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Ok, I'm a 1L who is dead-set on trying to get work as a prosecutor after graduation. I accepted an unpaid internship with the county attorney's office in the state I want to practice in over the summer; however, I was just offered a $15/hour paid position with a legal aid public interest group.

Is showing the dedication to crim law more valuable than the $15/hour position?

Factors to consider:
The county attorney's office said they typically only hire prosecutors who were past interns. In my eyes, it would be a huge advantage for me to be able to show 3 summers with the same position.

If the smarter thing is to go with the public interest position, will I burn any bridges with the county attorney's office who offered me an internship? I'd hate to be screwed down the line by backing out.

I'm barely top half. My stats aren't great. I have no idea how I snagged a paid position. (These were the only two interviews I went on.)


You're dead-set on being a prosecutor? Your stats aren't great? For the love of God, stick with the county attorney. It's rare prosecutors give a single crap about stats (for good reason). What they DO give a crap about is dedication to the work (also for good reason). You back out now, you're likely going to regret it unless you change your mind about being a prosecutor (though this is very possible once you actually get your hands dirty). If $15/hr is enough to pull you away from the job, you might not have the right attitude for it. I'm not criticizing you, I'm warning you in earnest. This is the kind of career that you bust your butt in for little pay, forces you to put up with all sorts of demeaning garbage, makes you question your own sense of morality, and causes countless fresh lawyers to run away as soon as they can because they don't think it's worth it. What you do has a direct impact on lives and it's a hell of a burden to carry if you're not a robot/mild sociopath. $15/hr isn't going to seem like much money if you find out you hate the job. Figure it out sooner rather than later, because the more you "experiment" the less attractive a candidate you are nowadays to most places. Aside from that, being sure this is what you want to do before you dedicate years of your life to it is worth more than a meager 3-month wage.

Incidentally, what the heck PI group is paying interns? I always figured I'd have an easier time finding a snipe than a paying PI internship.




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