How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

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Anonymous User
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:13 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm trying to decide between summer offers. I heard a couple things at EJW this year and want to know how true they are. 1. if you intern your 2L summer at the Colorado State Public Defender, you're almost guaranteed a job after graduation. You will interview at the end of the summer and if you don't screw it up, you'll get an offer. 2. because Colorado does this, it is hard to get a postgrad job there if you did not intern.
I can't say that #1 is surely true, but I can say that of the 10 or so interns I know, all of us were offered jobs. I have been told this is because they give great weight to your supervisor's evaluation of you. So basically, if you do a good job and care about the work, your supervisor will like you and write a good review. I know that #2 is not 100% true, but most of the people who get hired have interned there (or at least that is my impression). I know if you go to the information sessions on getting hired by the PD, they tell you to intern there if you want to work for them.

Not sure what the other office is, but Colorado is pretty cool.

I've heard you get your own caseload in Colorado, but do you actually do any trials? I want more than arraignments and bail hearings, which a friend of mine got last summer at a place where he was promised felony prelims and misdo trials.


Yes, you will get your own case load as long as you can practice under the Student Practice Act. Remember that this depends on you actually having cases that go to trial--in some judicial districts this is more likely than others. I have friends who have had 7-8 trials during their internship and I know one attorney who had 0 (nothing went that summer in his division). Personally, I only had one full trial that I did 100% myself. I had another trial that I got in on at the last minute, but I tag-teamed that one with one of the PDs. In Colorado, you essentially function as a junior PD. You'll pick up your own clients, advise them, plea them out (if they want), argue/write motions, and go to trial (if necessary).

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm trying to decide between summer offers. I heard a couple things at EJW this year and want to know how true they are. 1. if you intern your 2L summer at the Colorado State Public Defender, you're almost guaranteed a job after graduation. You will interview at the end of the summer and if you don't screw it up, you'll get an offer. 2. because Colorado does this, it is hard to get a postgrad job there if you did not intern.
I can't say that #1 is surely true, but I can say that of the 10 or so interns I know, all of us were offered jobs. I have been told this is because they give great weight to your supervisor's evaluation of you. So basically, if you do a good job and care about the work, your supervisor will like you and write a good review. I know that #2 is not 100% true, but most of the people who get hired have interned there (or at least that is my impression). I know if you go to the information sessions on getting hired by the PD, they tell you to intern there if you want to work for them.

Not sure what the other office is, but Colorado is pretty cool.

I've heard you get your own caseload in Colorado, but do you actually do any trials? I want more than arraignments and bail hearings, which a friend of mine got last summer at a place where he was promised felony prelims and misdo trials.


Yes, you will get your own case load as long as you can practice under the Student Practice Act. Remember that this depends on you actually having cases that go to trial--in some judicial districts this is more likely than others. I have friends who have had 7-8 trials during their internship and I know one attorney who had 0 (nothing went that summer in his division). Personally, I only had one full trial that I did 100% myself. I had another trial that I got in on at the last minute, but I tag-teamed that one with one of the PDs. In Colorado, you essentially function as a junior PD. You'll pick up your own clients, advise them, plea them out (if they want), argue/write motions, and go to trial (if necessary).


Colorado, both the state and the pd system, is pretty cool. As far as getting a job, most if not all of the may graduates were former interns. From what I heard/saw, everyone who got a 'would hire' recommendation from their office got an offer if they wanted it. That is, in the office I interned in, 1 kid found something they thought was better, 1 kid pissed off everyone and fucked some stuff up (like missing motions deadlines, structural/responsibility kind of stuff. They expect you to not know what you're doing) and all the rest of us got hired.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:44 pm

How bad is it that I will not be practicing my 2L summer but will be practicing a semester in a clinic my 3L year. The office that I will be working at is the office I want to work at after graduation.

Lady Heather
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Lady Heather » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How bad is it that I will not be practicing my 2L summer but will be practicing a semester in a clinic my 3L year. The office that I will be working at is the office I want to work at after graduation.

Will the clinic start in the fall or spring semester? Does the office hire pre-bar? What are you doing this summer instead? Do you have other experience related to the work the office does?

If the office hires pre-bar, you'll want to start working before they begin interviewing 3Ls.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:12 pm

Lady Heather wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How bad is it that I will not be practicing my 2L summer but will be practicing a semester in a clinic my 3L year. The office that I will be working at is the office I want to work at after graduation.

Will the clinic start in the fall or spring semester? Does the office hire pre-bar? What are you doing this summer instead? Do you have other experience related to the work the office does?

If the office hires pre-bar, you'll want to start working before they begin interviewing 3Ls.

Clinic is in the fall. I will be at a PD office this summer as a 2L and yes they hire pre bar and well known nationally. I will be a law clerk, the office lets no students practice. I have two other summers at PD agencies as well clerking (because I wasn't allowed to practice).

Lady Heather
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Lady Heather » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:The office that I will be working at is the office I want to work at after graduation.

^^ Is this the office you will be working at this summer, or the office you will being doing the clinic work with in the fall?

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:00 am

Lady Heather wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The office that I will be working at is the office I want to work at after graduation.

^^ Is this the office you will be working at this summer, or the office you will being doing the clinic work with in the fall?

Clinic is local stuff and I will be going away this summer for the internship. We can only get one semesters credit for clinic nothing for year round at my school because clinics are guaranteed by all students.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:How bad is it that I will not be practicing my 2L summer but will be practicing a semester in a clinic my 3L year. The office that I will be working at is the office I want to work at after graduation.


PDS? Does any other office have this policy?

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Got an offer from San Diego Public Defender for Post-Bar Clerkship.


Congrats! How did you hear? Snail mail/email? How long ago did you have your performance interview?


Phone call. I had my performance interview two weeks ago, then a final interview last week. They called me a few days later with an offer.



If you don't mind me asking, would you be willing to share your stats and connection to the office? Also how was the interview. I am waiting for HR to schedule my "second round" right now.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How bad is it that I will not be practicing my 2L summer but will be practicing a semester in a clinic my 3L year. The office that I will be working at is the office I want to work at after graduation.


PDS? Does any other office have this policy?


Not PDS but similar. Is this huge negative?

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gdane
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby gdane » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:06 pm

Should I send the USAO I want to work at this summer my updated transcript? GPA went up a teeny bit, but I got a B+ in Evidence and an A- in Crim Pro 2. Not exactly the strongest grades in these two classes I've been told are important for those interested in prosecution.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Lady Heather » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is this huge negative?

You really only have two options: 1) Work at your preferred office, or 2) Work under student practice. I don't think either option is a 'negative.' I expect that having a good reference from one of their own employees would mitigate the lack of courtroom experience this summer. Since you won't name the office, I don't know how competitive it is, whether it frequently hires former interns, or how much courtroom experience interviewees are expected to bring to the table. You already have your foot in the door, so I suggest you kick ass this summer and get close with the people who have influence with the hiring committee.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:20 pm

Lady Heather wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is this huge negative?

You really only have two options: 1) Work at your preferred office, or 2) Work under student practice. I don't think either option is a 'negative.' I expect that having a good reference from one of their own employees would mitigate the lack of courtroom experience this summer. Since you won't name the office, I don't know how competitive it is, whether it frequently hires former interns, or how much courtroom experience interviewees are expected to bring to the table. You already have your foot in the door, so I suggest you kick ass this summer and get close with the people who have influence with the hiring committee.

I will be able to student practice my 3L Fall semester. It's an NYC office. If I'm not hired there do you think other offices may negatively question my choice? Like is this an auto ding at lots of other offices that hire pre bar? thanks for the advice.

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Rocío
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Rocío » Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Lady Heather wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is this huge negative?

You really only have two options: 1) Work at your preferred office, or 2) Work under student practice. I don't think either option is a 'negative.' I expect that having a good reference from one of their own employees would mitigate the lack of courtroom experience this summer. Since you won't name the office, I don't know how competitive it is, whether it frequently hires former interns, or how much courtroom experience interviewees are expected to bring to the table. You already have your foot in the door, so I suggest you kick ass this summer and get close with the people who have influence with the hiring committee.

I will be able to student practice my 3L Fall semester. It's an NYC office. If I'm not hired there do you think other offices may negatively question my choice? Like is this an auto ding at lots of other offices that hire pre bar? thanks for the advice.


No. I don't understand why you would think that one public defender office would look at you negatively for working at another public defender office. Experience is experience - so make sure the office actually lets you handle cases and doesn't have you merely shadowing a PD. Obviously it helps to intern/extern for the office at which you eventually want to work, but this is by no means necessary, except for if the office exclusively hires out of its interns. As long as you have ties to the office you wish to work at, and a demonstrated commitment to PD work, you should be fine.

But you should have experience before 3L year, too, even if it's just the summer between 2L and 3L.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:32 pm

To the poster above, I'm also positive the office you are talking about is The Bronx Defenders. They do actually let 2Ls speak in court but the opportunities are not as readily available as in other offices, or even other NYC offices at that. Your strategy to get in court through your 3L clinic is a good one.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby jml8756 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:45 pm

In my humble opinion, the ranking of the offices where you should intern during the summer should be as follows (works for both prosecution and PD):

1. The office you ultimately want to end up at after graduation. Never underestimate the influence of a call from one of your supervisors to the hiring committee. Someone they know and trust within the office advocating on your behalf to get hired? Huge.

2. An office that will let you do a bunch of trials. Don't mix this up with an office that in theory lets students use their student practice license, but in practice it just doesn't end up happening too much. Talk to former interns about what they got to do. Prosecutors are usually better at this than PDs, since PDs have to get client consent. Also, certain divisions might be better at this than others. If you land in a division like misdemeanors or traffic, you might get to do a ton more stuff than felony divisions which sound a lot sexier but don't really give their interns any responsibility.

3. An office that doesn't allow student practice, but is high profile (PDS). This might be my personal bias here, but I suspect that when you interview for post-grad work at another office, it's going to sound a lot better if you can say "I personally tried a dozen cases on behalf of these clients, or on behalf of the People of the State of XYZ." And then you can tell stories about those experiences. But if you go in and say, "I sat in the gallery and watched my supervisor try a bunch of cases...but it was PDS!" it's not quite as compelling. Unless you're interviewing at PDS :)

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:16 am

1L here. I worked at a PD office over the winter, it was a great experience. I had planned to stay there over the summer, But my situation has changed, and I'm not going to be able to return to that town this summer. Is it too late in the game to get summer internships with PD or DA offices at this point? I don't even have any other applications out, kinda screwed myself putting my eggs in one basket.

adonai
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby adonai » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:1L here. I worked at a PD office over the winter, it was a great experience. I had planned to stay there over the summer, But my situation has changed, and I'm not going to be able to return to that town this summer. Is it too late in the game to get summer internships with PD or DA offices at this point? I don't even have any other applications out, kinda screwed myself putting my eggs in one basket.

No. I'd say most offices haven't even started interviewing yet for summer. Get on it quick, though.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:51 am

Rocío wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Lady Heather wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is this huge negative?

You really only have two options: 1) Work at your preferred office, or 2) Work under student practice. I don't think either option is a 'negative.' I expect that having a good reference from one of their own employees would mitigate the lack of courtroom experience this summer. Since you won't name the office, I don't know how competitive it is, whether it frequently hires former interns, or how much courtroom experience interviewees are expected to bring to the table. You already have your foot in the door, so I suggest you kick ass this summer and get close with the people who have influence with the hiring committee.

I will be able to student practice my 3L Fall semester. It's an NYC office. If I'm not hired there do you think other offices may negatively question my choice? Like is this an auto ding at lots of other offices that hire pre bar? thanks for the advice.


No. I don't understand why you would think that one public defender office would look at you negatively for working at another public defender office. Experience is experience - so make sure the office actually lets you handle cases and doesn't have you merely shadowing a PD. Obviously it helps to intern/extern for the office at which you eventually want to work, but this is by no means necessary, except for if the office exclusively hires out of its interns. As long as you have ties to the office you wish to work at, and a demonstrated commitment to PD work, you should be fine.

But you should have experience before 3L year, too, even if it's just the summer between 2L and 3L.

That's the thing, this is the office I want to work at post grad but they don't let students practice very much. I'm worried that my "lack of in court experience" when I interview with other offices will be a negative although I have numerous PD experience. I will be practicing at the time of my interview but it will not be complete.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:39 pm

gdane wrote:Should I send the USAO I want to work at this summer my updated transcript? GPA went up a teeny bit, but I got a B+ in Evidence and an A- in Crim Pro 2. Not exactly the strongest grades in these two classes I've been told are important for those interested in prosecution.


Since you're just doing an internship, no, they won't care - you're an intern. It is not like you can apply for a job in their office for at least a few years anyway.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:17 pm

I can work 16 weeks this summer. Should I spend the summer at one office or should I split with two offices (they are both Prosecution/PD) if I can? I would be able to practice at each office.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby spleenworship » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I can work 16 weeks this summer. Should I spend the summer at one office or should I split with two offices (they are both Prosecution/PD) if I can? I would be able to practice at each office.



I would do the split provided you don't end up with a conflict of interest. Get's you a better feel for where you might fit in and doubles your contacts for jobs.

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Time between offer and acceptance

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:29 pm

Anyone knows how long do they have to give you to decide whether to accept an offer? Does it vary by office or are they all required to give you a certain amount of time?

the lantern
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Re: Time between offer and acceptance

Postby the lantern » Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone knows how long do they have to give you to decide whether to accept an offer? Does it vary by office or are they all required to give you a certain amount of time?


Not sure if you're talking about somewhere specific, but my 2L summer and post-grad offers had accept periods of 2 and 3 weeks respectively.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:42 pm

the lantern wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone knows how long do they have to give you to decide whether to accept an offer? Does it vary by office or are they all required to give you a certain amount of time?


Not sure if you're talking about somewhere specific, but my 2L summer and post-grad offers had accept periods of 2 and 3 weeks respectively.


I just got an offer today and they gave me until Monday night to give them an answer. I am really interested in them, but have interviewed at other offices that I would also consider.

I want to ask for an extension of at least a week since I really can't notify the other offices until Monday morning but I also don't want to lose the offer. Tough call...




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