How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:So this is what I'm getting from all of this, pds is great to intern at but you don't appear on the record, so does this mean that 3Ls who spent their 2L summer at a pd office that was more hands on are more competitive come applying for post grad position? I know pds is great but do they actually extend offers to their 2L interns?


It's always best to intern for the office you'd like to work for post-grad, and of course PDS prefers people who have worked with them. If you can get courtroom experience through a clinic or something, then spending your 2L summer at PDS could be a big hiring boost. And of course, just because PDS doesn't let you talk on the record doesn't mean it's not a great learning experience, and other pd offices notice when PDS is on your resume.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:48 am

I'm currently a 1L and in the process of lining up work for this summer. If I know I absolutely want to end up at the Cook County PD's office but I don't think I'll have the grades to land it right out of school, would I be better off starting in a smaller market and getting 2 to 3 years experience? I have a connection to the Cook County PD's office so part of me wants to go there this summer and bust my ass to then hopefully summer there again after 2L with my 711 and then land the gig directly. However, in reality I don't think I did well enough first semester to be competitive to land the gig directly so I'm thinking I might start in a smaller county in Illinois where I also have a connection who has made it pretty clear that I would be seriously looked at after graduation. I know time and circumstances can change things over the next 3 years but I want to take the safest route with it in mind that my ultimate goal is to end up at the Cook County PD's. I'll do anything to get it, even if I have to take the long route and work in bumfuck Illinois for a few years.


Thoughts on what my game plan should be? Should I summer in Cook County and hope my hard work trumps my grades or play it safe by showing off my work ethic to a less desirable office but with a higher probability of landing something straight out of LS? Thanks.

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gdane
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby gdane » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:10 am

South Florida USAO is taking forever. I sent my stuff in in September and I just received an acknowledgment email earlier this week telling me that they'll contact me again after the February 11th deadline. This is for a summer job.

Is the protocol with prosecution offices the same as with judges, you take the offer on the spot and don't renege? Keep in mind this is for a summer job.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:09 pm

gdane wrote:South Florida USAO is taking forever. I sent my stuff in in September and I just received an acknowledgment email earlier this week telling me that they'll contact me again after the February 11th deadline. This is for a summer job.

Is the protocol with prosecution offices the same as with judges, you take the offer on the spot and don't renege? Keep in mind this is for a summer job.

For state offices, you can definitely sit on a offer and wait for others provided you have the time. You don't have to accept like you generally do with judges. I can't imagine the Feds being any different. I had 5 offers for various DA offices last summer and it was expected that I'd pick the best fit for me. Same goes for post graduation employment. Miami SAO gave me 30 days to accept or decline.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby gdane » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:30 pm

Thanks for the information.

Miami SAO is where I want to work post-grad. I'd really appreciate it if you could tell me as much as you can regarding the Miami SAO considering you had a summer offer. Did you take it? You can PM me if you feel more comfortable.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:00 pm

gdane wrote:Thanks for the information.

Miami SAO is where I want to work post-grad. I'd really appreciate it if you could tell me as much as you can regarding the Miami SAO considering you had a summer offer. Did you take it? You can PM me if you feel more comfortable.



Miami SAO is where I'm going post grad this fall. I think you'll be fine doing USAO if that's what you want. You might get a question or two about why state prosecution as opposed to federal but I don't think it will be a big deal. As far as summering at the Miami SAO I don't think it really "helps" as much as other offices. When you think about Miami's hiring think more along the lines of NYC offices. It's a whole lot easier to get a summer position in Miami than it is post grad and I don't think they really give their pervious summers and boost over post grad applicants.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
gdane wrote:Thanks for the information.

Miami SAO is where I want to work post-grad. I'd really appreciate it if you could tell me as much as you can regarding the Miami SAO considering you had a summer offer. Did you take it? You can PM me if you feel more comfortable.



Miami SAO is where I'm going post grad this fall. I think you'll be fine doing USAO if that's what you want. You might get a question or two about why state prosecution as opposed to federal but I don't think it will be a big deal. As far as summering at the Miami SAO I don't think it really "helps" as much as other offices. When you think about Miami's hiring think more along the lines of NYC offices. It's a whole lot easier to get a summer position in Miami than it is post grad and I don't think they really give their pervious summers and boost over post grad applicants.


Are you the poster from earlier who got the offer at the interview?

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby gdane » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:06 pm

Wow. Great information. Thanks.

As far as post-grad employment, is Miami SAO like most offices in that they like to see mainly crim classes, evidence, trial type classes, moot court, etc?

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:13 pm

gdane wrote:Wow. Great information. Thanks.

As far as post-grad employment, is Miami SAO like most offices in that they like to see mainly crim classes, evidence, trial type classes, moot court, etc?


I'm not the poster with the offer, but I've done all three rounds and I'm waiting. From my interviews it seemed like they did ask about crim and trial related classes. They ask for your transcripts at the OCI screener and they look at them. It seems like all prosecution offices would like those types of classes. A highly ranked ASA told our clinic classes that they are very suspicious of the dedication of applicants who haven't taken classes like evidence and trial advocacy. Prosecution is not a backup and they look to weed out people who are trying to use it as one.

ETA: the ASA with my clinic class was not in Miami but a pretty large Florida SAO.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby gdane » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:15 pm

That's good to know. Thanks for answering my questions. I appreciate it.

Good luck with everything.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
gdane wrote:Thanks for the information.

Miami SAO is where I want to work post-grad. I'd really appreciate it if you could tell me as much as you can regarding the Miami SAO considering you had a summer offer. Did you take it? You can PM me if you feel more comfortable.



Miami SAO is where I'm going post grad this fall. I think you'll be fine doing USAO if that's what you want. You might get a question or two about why state prosecution as opposed to federal but I don't think it will be a big deal. As far as summering at the Miami SAO I don't think it really "helps" as much as other offices. When you think about Miami's hiring think more along the lines of NYC offices. It's a whole lot easier to get a summer position in Miami than it is post grad and I don't think they really give their pervious summers and boost over post grad applicants.


Are you the poster from earlier who got the offer at the interview?


No.

And about transcripts, it depends on your interviewer if they're going to care about your classes. If you have lots of prosecution experience on your résumé, your classes become less important. You'll need to show serious dedication though as Miami SAO is definitely one of the more or most competitive offices.

I was grilled harder with hypos than I was on my crim pro exam. I will say that my experience lead me to believe that Miami cares less about your crim pro grade and ability to issue spot on an exam than your ability to think on your feet and answer hypos.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:It's always best to intern for the office you'd like to work for post-grad, and of course PDS prefers people who have worked with them. If you can get courtroom experience through a clinic or something, then spending your 2L summer at PDS could be a big hiring boost. And of course, just because PDS doesn't let you talk on the record doesn't mean it's not a great learning experience, and other pd offices notice when PDS is on your resume.


What are you basing the above bolded text on? Have you worked there? Interned there? Know folks there?

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
gdane wrote:Thanks for the information.

Miami SAO is where I want to work post-grad. I'd really appreciate it if you could tell me as much as you can regarding the Miami SAO considering you had a summer offer. Did you take it? You can PM me if you feel more comfortable.



Miami SAO is where I'm going post grad this fall. I think you'll be fine doing USAO if that's what you want. You might get a question or two about why state prosecution as opposed to federal but I don't think it will be a big deal. As far as summering at the Miami SAO I don't think it really "helps" as much as other offices. When you think about Miami's hiring think more along the lines of NYC offices. It's a whole lot easier to get a summer position in Miami than it is post grad and I don't think they really give their pervious summers and boost over post grad applicants.


Are you the poster from earlier who got the offer at the interview?


No.

And about transcripts, it depends on your interviewer if they're going to care about your classes. If you have lots of prosecution experience on your résumé, your classes become less important. You'll need to show serious dedication though as Miami SAO is definitely one of the more or most competitive offices.

I was grilled harder with hypos than I was on my crim pro exam. I will say that my experience lead me to believe that Miami cares less about your crim pro grade and ability to issue spot on an exam than your ability to think on your feet and answer hypos.


When did you interview and get your offer? I'm beginning to think I'm probably out. I didn't get any crim pro at my callbacks. The crim pro was all at OCI.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:02 am

Anonymous User wrote:
wbrother wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
My questions: will this (coupled with top 5 percent at t14 and secondary journal) make me competitive for most public defender offices upon graduation? and what about prosecutor's offices?


Top 5% at T14? I would think the only hesitation is that a PD or DA office may think you will jump to BigLaw for the bigger salary.


Have PD/DA offices ever demonstrated any type of yield protecting? I suppose it would make sense for top 5% t14, but from what I've heard BigLaw doesn't really like to recruit from PD/DA as much as they do out of law school. Curious if anyone on here as actually data/experience/anecdotes.


I'm around top 10% at T14. Got offers at multiple PD offices and will be joining PDS.

Nearly certain that YP doesn't happen at PD offices. The grades certainly weren't the most important part of my applications, but they were a nice cherry on top.

I had multiple offers for summering at the most prestigious offices around the nation and I have slightly below median grades. Was offered at PDS too. Only PDS ever asked me for a transcript and I don't put my grades on my resume because my school uses a messed up system that makes no sense to outsiders. I flat out told the PDS lady I was not a top student and she didn't care one bit, she said grades are minimally considered.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:
wbrother wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
My questions: will this (coupled with top 5 percent at t14 and secondary journal) make me competitive for most public defender offices upon graduation? and what about prosecutor's offices?


Top 5% at T14? I would think the only hesitation is that a PD or DA office may think you will jump to BigLaw for the bigger salary.


Have PD/DA offices ever demonstrated any type of yield protecting? I suppose it would make sense for top 5% t14, but from what I've heard BigLaw doesn't really like to recruit from PD/DA as much as they do out of law school. Curious if anyone on here as actually data/experience/anecdotes.


I'm around top 10% at T14. Got offers at multiple PD offices and will be joining PDS.

Nearly certain that YP doesn't happen at PD offices. The grades certainly weren't the most important part of my applications, but they were a nice cherry on top.



Just curious what do you think your strengths were if not for your grades that got you the multiple offers? You seem to be in an awesome position I hope to be there in a year or two!

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:30 am

Anonymous User wrote:I had multiple offers for summering at the most prestigious offices around the nation and I have slightly below median grades. Was offered at PDS too. Only PDS ever asked me for a transcript and I don't put my grades on my resume because my school uses a messed up system that makes no sense to outsiders. I flat out told the PDS lady I was not a top student and she didn't care one bit, she said grades are minimally considered.


Just to be clear, you're referring to applications for 2L summers, not post-grad employment, right?

Where did you decide to go for the summer?

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:41 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Have PD/DA offices ever demonstrated any type of yield protecting? I suppose it would make sense for top 5% t14, but from what I've heard BigLaw doesn't really like to recruit from PD/DA as much as they do out of law school. Curious if anyone on here as actually data/experience/anecdotes.


I'm around top 10% at T14. Got offers at multiple PD offices and will be joining PDS.

Nearly certain that YP doesn't happen at PD offices. The grades certainly weren't the most important part of my applications, but they were a nice cherry on top.



Just curious what do you think your strengths were if not for your grades that got you the multiple offers? You seem to be in an awesome position I hope to be there in a year or two!


I think it may be two things, though I'm not entirely certain:

First, I have a decent amount of public speaking experience, both in court and otherwise. I spent my 2L summer at a California office that allowed me to handle preliminary hearings. I also competed for four years in undergrad on a mock trial team. I also competed on a moot court team in law school. In total, I interned at four PD offices before I started interviewing for post-grad jobs.

Second, I spent a lot of time researching offices and prepping for interviews with folks from those offices.
I reached out to alums and other folks I knew to get as much info as I could about how the offices see their work. I then went through sample questions with those individuals. I also wrote down recurring questions and crafted answers that best represented what the offices were looking for. I tried to have multiple iterations of my answers. Sometimes, an interview called for only a high-level answer. Sometimes, interviewers would push for more, and I'd be ready with an anecdote or two.

When I got to panel interviews and was presented with fact patterns, I tried to brainstorm every question they could throw my way. Though offices usually ask for an opening or closing, they may also ask for a client simulation or a cross examination. I practiced and talked through those possibilities and tried to have every option ready to go.

To be honest, it's also a fair amount of luck. On particular days, I felt "on" in the interviews. That said, putting this time into prepping also helped me walk into interviews more confident than I would be otherwise.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:05 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:It's always best to intern for the office you'd like to work for post-grad, and of course PDS prefers people who have worked with them. If you can get courtroom experience through a clinic or something, then spending your 2L summer at PDS could be a big hiring boost. And of course, just because PDS doesn't let you talk on the record doesn't mean it's not a great learning experience, and other pd offices notice when PDS is on your resume.


What are you basing the above bolded text on? Have you worked there? Interned there? Know folks there?


Interned there + know people there. Is it really that surprising though? That's probably the least controversial thing I said in that post.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby dextermorgan » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:36 pm

robin600 wrote:
dextermorgan wrote:Does anyone know if doing civil legal aid for 1L Summer will hurt me for a 2L position with a PD office?

It's not going to make you competitive but it won't hurt you.

Thanks for the reply. Would it make more sense for me to go somewhere like the Innocence Project or a capital appeals organization if I am unable to get into a PD office? Basically, would criminal experience be more beneficial even if it has less client interaction and nitty-gritty street level work?

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Displeased » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:35 pm

dextermorgan wrote:
robin600 wrote:
dextermorgan wrote:Does anyone know if doing civil legal aid for 1L Summer will hurt me for a 2L position with a PD office?

It's not going to make you competitive but it won't hurt you.

Thanks for the reply. Would it make more sense for me to go somewhere like the Innocence Project or a capital appeals organization if I am unable to get into a PD office? Basically, would criminal experience be more beneficial even if it has less client interaction and nitty-gritty street level work?


Many schools have Innocence Project clinics or externships that you can work on during the school year. I'd look into something like that, so you could get Innocence Project on your resume without sacrificing a whole summer for it.

Generally speaking, I'd wager that a non-criminal job like legal aide that involves heavy interaction with indigent clients is preferable to a criminal job that doesn't involve client interaction. Any law student can write a decent memo on any area of law, not everyone can handle indigent clients.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the information.

Miami SAO is where I want to work post-grad. I'd really appreciate it if you could tell me as much as you can regarding the Miami SAO considering you had a summer offer. Did you take it? You can PM me if you feel more comfortable.



Miami SAO is where I'm going post grad this fall. I think you'll be fine doing USAO if that's what you want. You might get a question or two about why state prosecution as opposed to federal but I don't think it will be a big deal. As far as summering at the Miami SAO I don't think it really "helps" as much as other offices. When you think about Miami's hiring think more along the lines of NYC offices. It's a whole lot easier to get a summer position in Miami than it is post grad and I don't think they really give their pervious summers and boost over post grad applicants.


Are you the poster from earlier who got the offer at the interview?



I'm the Miami SAO poster from above that got the offer at the interview. I think that the fact whether you got hypos at your interview depends totally on the interviewer. According to people I talked to at the office, I actually ended up getting one of the "harder" interviewers, but was told that some of the other ones dont even do hypos.

Personally I like hypos better because it gives a nice problem to discuss rather than just the boring same old "tell me about a time when you..." blah blah blah. Hate that type of interview.

Regarding transcript, at the screener interview I was asked about a few non-traditional classes I had taken, but was never asked why I hadn't taken Evidence or Crim Pro at that time. I was heavily involved in criminal law clinics though so I think they just didnt care.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby aelzbp » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:43 pm

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Last edited by aelzbp on Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby FeelTheHeat » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:24 pm

I think regardless of what happens with this summer's work I'm going to pursue a career with the SAO. Excited over the possibility.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby eandy » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:27 pm

FeelTheHeat wrote:I think regardless of what happens with this summer's work I'm going to pursue a career with the SAO. Excited over the possibility.

:mrgreen:

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby robin600 » Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:54 am

Crap I wanted to post anon my bad




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