How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

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Anonymous User
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:29 pm

Got an offer to 2L intern with Brooklyn Defender Services via phone today.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Got an offer to 2L intern with Brooklyn Defender Services via phone today.

Nice congrats! How did you apply?

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:46 pm

Palm Beach, FL has sent out 2nd round invites (3Ls from EJW)

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robin600
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby robin600 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:47 pm

Just out of curiosity what offices have 3Ls applied to that weren't attending EJW? Anyone having success with these offices? Are they hiring pre bar?

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:50 pm

For those who are working NYC pd offices does working at one agency in NYC help or hurt you if you decide to apply to others? I keep fielding questions like why x and not us.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:For those who are working NYC pd offices does working at one agency in NYC help or hurt you if you decide to apply to others? I keep fielding questions like why x and not us.


I think this is mostly because each organization was like a splinter from Legal Aid and sort of wants to be unique. Anyone have any thoughts on where the best place to be a 2L intern would be out of these three public defender offices: Brooklyn, NJ state or NY federal. Mainly looking for the office that will give me the best opportunities when I'm looking for a job after graduation.

Thanks

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby hopin10 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:46 pm

robin600 wrote:Just out of curiosity what offices have 3Ls applied to that weren't attending EJW? Anyone having success with these offices? Are they hiring pre bar?


Which offices would this include? The only I can think of either aren't hiring or only hire post-bar. Plus the Prettyman Fellowship.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby hopin10 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:For those who are working NYC pd offices does working at one agency in NYC help or hurt you if you decide to apply to others? I keep fielding questions like why x and not us.


I think this is mostly because each organization was like a splinter from Legal Aid and sort of wants to be unique. Anyone have any thoughts on where the best place to be a 2L intern would be out of these three public defender offices: Brooklyn, NJ state or NY federal. Mainly looking for the office that will give me the best opportunities when I'm looking for a job after graduation.

Thanks


I would think you'd be least well-served by the federal gig. At a federal office, you likely wouldn't get to argue much in court, which is a skill that defender orgs want to see in entry-level applicants. Between Brooklyn and NJ state, I would try to figure out which offers the best summer experience for interns. I'm not familiar with what they do and don't allow their summer interns to do (e.g., appear in court).
Last edited by hopin10 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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robin600
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby robin600 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:52 pm

hopin10 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:For those who are working NYC pd offices does working at one agency in NYC help or hurt you if you decide to apply to others? I keep fielding questions like why x and not us.


I think this is mostly because each organization was like a splinter from Legal Aid and sort of wants to be unique. Anyone have any thoughts on where the best place to be a 2L intern would be out of these three public defender offices: Brooklyn, NJ state or NY federal. Mainly looking for the office that will give me the best opportunities when I'm looking for a job after graduation.

Thanks


I would think you'd be least well-served by the federal gig. At a federal office, you likely wouldn't get to argue much in court, which is a skill that defender orgs want to see in entry-level applicants. Between Brooklyn and NJ state, I would try to figure out which offers the best summer experience for interns. I'm not familiar with that they do and don't allow their summer interns to do (e.g., appear in court).


I would second this but federal would be ok if you had another opportunity to practice like in a school clinic. That's what I did 2 non practicing but very good internships and fall 3L take an actual student practice defense clinic.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby hopin10 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:42 pm

robin600 wrote:
hopin10 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:For those who are working NYC pd offices does working at one agency in NYC help or hurt you if you decide to apply to others? I keep fielding questions like why x and not us.


I think this is mostly because each organization was like a splinter from Legal Aid and sort of wants to be unique. Anyone have any thoughts on where the best place to be a 2L intern would be out of these three public defender offices: Brooklyn, NJ state or NY federal. Mainly looking for the office that will give me the best opportunities when I'm looking for a job after graduation.

Thanks


I would think you'd be least well-served by the federal gig. At a federal office, you likely wouldn't get to argue much in court, which is a skill that defender orgs want to see in entry-level applicants. Between Brooklyn and NJ state, I would try to figure out which offers the best summer experience for interns. I'm not familiar with that they do and don't allow their summer interns to do (e.g., appear in court).


I would second this but federal would be ok if you had another opportunity to practice like in a school clinic. That's what I did 2 non practicing but very good internships and fall 3L take an actual student practice defense clinic.


Fair point, definitely. One concern I'd have with clinics and externships is that you can't commit your entire working time to the job, while during the summer you can.

But this is very organization- and school-specific. I'd encourage entering your 3L having appeared in court as much as possible, be it through through a school-year internship, summer internship, or clinic--or ideally, all!

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:18 pm

whats the best way to figure out if a summer placement will give you the most court time? Everywhere I interviewed with said they "do their best to let interns go to court" so I'm having a hard time figuring out where to go.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:19 pm

3L dinged from Contra Costa without even an interview

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby robin600 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:3L dinged from Contra Costa without even an interview

Gross sorry to hear. DA or PD?

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:20 am

robin600 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:3L dinged from Contra Costa without even an interview

Gross sorry to hear. DA or PD?


PD via email

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:31 am

Anonymous User wrote:
robin600 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:3L dinged from Contra Costa without even an interview

Gross sorry to hear. DA or PD?


PD via email


Was this a post-grad clerk position?

hopin10
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby hopin10 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:34 am

Anonymous User wrote:whats the best way to figure out if a summer placement will give you the most court time? Everywhere I interviewed with said they "do their best to let interns go to court" so I'm having a hard time figuring out where to go.


Talk to past interns. Figure out how the jurisdiction handles probable cause determinations: grand jury or hearing (the latter is better). Ask if the office has rules on what they allow students to do. Some California offices, for example, let interns handle preliminary hearings, where the defense cross examines a cop and / or CW. Other offices only let interns argue motions. Still others don't let interns appear on the record at all.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby the lantern » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:14 am

hopin10 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:whats the best way to figure out if a summer placement will give you the most court time? Everywhere I interviewed with said they "do their best to let interns go to court" so I'm having a hard time figuring out where to go.


Talk to past interns. Figure out how the jurisdiction handles probable cause determinations: grand jury or hearing (the latter is better). Ask if the office has rules on what they allow students to do. Some California offices, for example, let interns handle preliminary hearings, where the defense cross examines a cop and / or CW. Other offices only let interns argue motions. Still others don't let interns appear on the record at all.


and some offices will give you an entire caseload and let you do everything. but yes, talking to former interns is helpful. Not sure if you're working really far from your school or in a really small agency or something, but I just picked up all the knowledge I needed organically from like-minded friends.

hopin10
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby hopin10 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:19 am

the lantern wrote:
hopin10 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:whats the best way to figure out if a summer placement will give you the most court time? Everywhere I interviewed with said they "do their best to let interns go to court" so I'm having a hard time figuring out where to go.


Talk to past interns. Figure out how the jurisdiction handles probable cause determinations: grand jury or hearing (the latter is better). Ask if the office has rules on what they allow students to do. Some California offices, for example, let interns handle preliminary hearings, where the defense cross examines a cop and / or CW. Other offices only let interns argue motions. Still others don't let interns appear on the record at all.


and some offices will give you an entire caseload and let you do everything. but yes, talking to former interns is helpful. Not sure if you're working really far from your school or in a really small agency or something, but I just picked up all the knowledge I needed organically from like-minded friends.


Off the top of my head:
- CO gives you a case load
- SF lets you do preliminary hearings
- LA doesn't let you appear on the record
- PDS (D.C.) doesn't let you appear on the record

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
robin600 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:3L dinged from Contra Costa without even an interview

Gross sorry to hear. DA or PD?


PD via email


Was this a post-grad clerk position?


yep

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:00 pm

And I also think that you should pick the office that has the best training. Some agencies are well known and provide grea opportunities even if you can't go on the record. Like having legal aid or PDS on your résumé will take you far even though you're not appearing before the court.

Also anyone know how to handle the why x and not us question? This one gets me every time.

hopin10
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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby hopin10 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:And I also think that you should pick the office that has the best training. Some agencies are well known and provide grea opportunities even if you can't go on the record. Like having legal aid or PDS on your résumé will take you far even though you're not appearing before the court.

Also anyone know how to handle the why x and not us question? This one gets me every time.


Pretty sure that Legal Aid lets students appear on the record. I see the point, though.

I might worry about spending too much time at an office that doesn't let you argue in court. A fancy name is great, but you may be in rough shape when you can't point to a time you actually represented a client in court come 3L interviews.

I haven't run up against the "Why did you work with another defender org and not us?" question. I would think answers about school connections, proximity to home, timing of offers would all suffice here.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:37 pm

3L email ding from Bronx Defenders (non-EJW application). Heard nothing back from Colorado after EJW so I'm assuming a ding there as well.

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:42 pm

So far, invitations for second rounds for 3Ls from EJW have gone out from CPCS, Palm Beach, Miami, CO. Any others?

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:51 pm

hopin10 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:And I also think that you should pick the office that has the best training. Some agencies are well known and provide grea opportunities even if you can't go on the record. Like having legal aid or PDS on your résumé will take you far even though you're not appearing before the court.

Also anyone know how to handle the why x and not us question? This one gets me every time.


Pretty sure that Legal Aid lets students appear on the record. I see the point, though.

I might worry about spending too much time at an office that doesn't let you argue in court. A fancy name is great, but you may be in rough shape when you can't point to a time you actually represented a client in court come 3L interviews.

I haven't run up against the "Why did you work with another defender org and not us?" question. I would think answers about school connections, proximity to home, timing of offers would all suffice here.


So I can totally dig this but I'm at a loss when it comes to knowing people who could give me insight. Anyone know anything about BDS or NJ defenders?

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Re: How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:06 pm

hopin10 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:And I also think that you should pick the office that has the best training. Some agencies are well known and provide grea opportunities even if you can't go on the record. Like having legal aid or PDS on your résumé will take you far even though you're not appearing before the court.

Also anyone know how to handle the why x and not us question? This one gets me every time.


Pretty sure that Legal Aid lets students appear on the record. I see the point, though.

I might worry about spending too much time at an office that doesn't let you argue in court. A fancy name is great, but you may be in rough shape when you can't point to a time you actually represented a client in court come 3L interviews.

I haven't run up against the "Why did you work with another defender org and not us?" question. I would think answers about school connections, proximity to home, timing of offers would all suffice here.

Right but I think if you could get practice elsewhere like through a clinic an internship with great training and no in court time would carry far too.




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