Why do people favor NYC firms?

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alumniguy
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby alumniguy » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:57 pm

rayiner wrote:You're missing the point. What I'm trying to get at is that you're being selective about "experiences" versus "goods." Why is being able to afford the space to have a good kitchen less important, experience-wise, then being able to run out and see ethnic dancing in the park? I cook more than I watch opera* --- why is one experience less valuable then the other? It's not of course. You're just defining things that way because NYC offers a certain set of experiences while not offering others.

*) The fact that NYC-ers don't cook is probably why they put so much stock in stuff like Michilin stars and ratings. They don't know how to judge good food unless someone tells them what's good.


It isn't an experience because you are simply doing daily routines in a nicer space. I have an almost exact same "experience" as you do cooking my breakfast, but my immediate surroundings are just not as spacious as yours. However, you can't see ethnic dancing in the park when there isn't any ethnic dancing in the park.

alumniguy
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby alumniguy » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:59 pm

dresden doll wrote:
alumniguy wrote:
I used the term you used - "overappreciated". I have nothing to say about price points buddy.


I guess you failed to pick up on the fact that Rayiner and I find the city overappreciated precisely because it's damn overpriced.


Well, that is because you are "materialistic." Not in a negative way, but in so far as you prefer to space/amenities to having a footprint in the most dynamic city in the U.S.

nouseforaname123
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby nouseforaname123 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:00 pm

rayiner wrote:You're missing the point. What I'm trying to get at is that you're being selective about "experiences" versus "goods." Why is being able to afford the space to have a good kitchen less important, experience-wise, then being able to run out and see ethnic dancing in the park? I cook more than I watch opera* --- why is one experience less valuable then the other? It's not of course. You're just defining things that way because NYC offers a certain set of experiences while not offering others.



Nah, alumniguy pegged me right. I like to own my front porch b/c I value the materials that make the porch. Has nothing to do with the fact that sitting in a rocking chair, enjoying a cold beer while my wife drinks her wine and our little boy kicks his soccer ball around the front yard is the best way I can think of to spend my time. Just like the wave break and ten dump trucks worth of fine sand at my in-law's lakehouse is what they really value as opposed to actually having their grandkids at their lakehouse with them.

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quakeroats
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby quakeroats » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:05 pm

rayiner wrote:
quakeroats wrote:
bgdddymtty wrote: Really? This is what you want out of life?

Contrast that with living/working in, say, Dallas. Same starting salary, possibly lower billable expectations, and for the same price and with the same <30 minute commute, you could own a 3000-4000 square foot house (with a pool!) instead of renting a 600 square foot cracker box (with rats!). Or, if you still want to be a townie, <$2500 will get you a super-spacious, ultra-modern luxury flat. Never mind that you could probably pay for either of these options with just the money you'd save in state and city income taxes.

But you guys have "vibrancy." You can't put a price on that.


Thankfully, life doesn't usually end during the first year at a NYC firm. How many Michelin-rated restaurants are in Dallas? How many world world-class museums? Opera houses? Coffee bars?

But hey, I'm sure you'll have a nice McMansion and your choice of Ruth's Chris, Morton's, or the Capital Grille.


Who cares how many restaurants are Michelin-rated if the food is good? Being a legit foodie and having sampled some of the "nice" NYC places, I can say I was more impressed with the food in Portland. NYC definitely has some great places to try if you're on vacation here, but it's really difficult to beat the insanely fresh food (particularly seafood) that you get even with a relatively cheap meal in Portland. Unless you're just really into prestige-eating, it's not going to impact your day to day QoL. Also, good tex mex >> Per Se.

And who goes to museums more then once? I grew up next to some of the best museums in the world (in DC) and didn't visit more than once a year. And if you're into opera and shit, Dallas has that too. Is it as famous? Does it matter?


You've mentioned "prestige eating" before. I'd like to suggest that that isn't what's going on. At the very least, that shouldn't or need not be what's going on. I'm sure three-star restaurants attract patrons who don't care for the food, and wouldn't eat there if it wasn't highly rated. I suspect such people are in the minority. There are lots of restaurants to do deals or be seen at, most with options that don't scare away patrons like snail porridge, sweetbreads or foie gras. Restaurants like per se, and the fat duck are about pushing the boundaries of food forward. While I'd never disparage restaurants that work with traditional fare and do it well--minor exception for chains that cook the same bland stuff over and over without adding anything significant--I think the top restaurants tend to be more interesting experiences which create rather than improve. Hell, what would the world be like had Blumenthal not popularized bacon-goes-with-everything dishes?

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dresden doll
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby dresden doll » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:06 pm

alumniguy wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
alumniguy wrote:
I used the term you used - "overappreciated". I have nothing to say about price points buddy.


I guess you failed to pick up on the fact that Rayiner and I find the city overappreciated precisely because it's damn overpriced.


Well, that is because you are "materialistic." Not in a negative way, but in so far as you prefer to space/amenities to having a footprint in the most dynamic city in the U.S.


I just don't see how the abundance of restaurants and museums makes up for the fact that many of us are obliged to pay mounds of money to live in shoeboxes with unsound sanitation.

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quakeroats
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby quakeroats » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:11 pm

dresden doll wrote:
alumniguy wrote:Who in their right mind needs a 3,000+ square foot house? To do what with? Have 5 children? Buy furniture just to make the place look like a house? Who wants to clean such a place. To me, I don't really understand the desire to have a big house. Of course I want more than a studio, but a nice 1 bedroom with a study is perfectly desirable to me.

I think what it really boils down to is whether you are (i) an experience oriented person or (ii) a goods oriented person. I find that people who would prefer to spend $150 on dinner versus $150 on a new pair of jeans or some other item, prefer to live in cities where you can get great experiences all the time. That just isn't the case for Dallas. Sure it has some fun things to do here and there, but for me, I would get bored very quickly. I like going to new restaurants, seeing diversity, experiencing the hustle of a large city, going to concerts, taking a train out to the beach occasionally, going hiking, traveling to other big cities like Boston, Philadelphia, or DC for the weekend. That stuff is all very difficult to do from Dallas but so easy from NYC.


Amazingly enough, many people would prefer to live in a spacious home that can comfortably house children they're hoping to have than have the capability to frequent the latest rendition of the Phantom of the Opera at the Metropolitan.


Phantom of the Opera is neither an Opera, nor at the Met. Discuss.

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paratactical
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby paratactical » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:15 pm

alumniguy wrote:Who in their right mind needs a 3,000+ square foot house? To do what with? Have 5 children? Buy furniture just to make the place look like a house? Who wants to clean such a place. To me, I don't really understand the desire to have a big house. Of course I want more than a studio, but a nice 1 bedroom with a study is perfectly desirable to me.

I think what it really boils down to is whether you are (i) an experience oriented person or (ii) a goods oriented person. I find that people who would prefer to spend $150 on dinner versus $150 on a new pair of jeans or some other item, prefer to live in cities where you can get great experiences all the time. That just isn't the case for Dallas. Sure it has some fun things to do here and there, but for me, I would get bored very quickly. I like going to new restaurants, seeing diversity, experiencing the hustle of a large city, going to concerts, taking a train out to the beach occasionally, going hiking, traveling to other big cities like Boston, Philadelphia, or DC for the weekend. That stuff is all very difficult to do from Dallas but so easy from NYC.


I am an experience oriented person who lived in NYC for over 5 years and I would never want to live there again unless I was making shittons of money with little to no debt.

EDIT: tbf, I wouldn't fucking live in Dallas either.
Last edited by paratactical on Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:16 pm

quakeroats wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
alumniguy wrote:Who in their right mind needs a 3,000+ square foot house? To do what with? Have 5 children? Buy furniture just to make the place look like a house? Who wants to clean such a place. To me, I don't really understand the desire to have a big house. Of course I want more than a studio, but a nice 1 bedroom with a study is perfectly desirable to me.

I think what it really boils down to is whether you are (i) an experience oriented person or (ii) a goods oriented person. I find that people who would prefer to spend $150 on dinner versus $150 on a new pair of jeans or some other item, prefer to live in cities where you can get great experiences all the time. That just isn't the case for Dallas. Sure it has some fun things to do here and there, but for me, I would get bored very quickly. I like going to new restaurants, seeing diversity, experiencing the hustle of a large city, going to concerts, taking a train out to the beach occasionally, going hiking, traveling to other big cities like Boston, Philadelphia, or DC for the weekend. That stuff is all very difficult to do from Dallas but so easy from NYC.


Amazingly enough, many people would prefer to live in a spacious home that can comfortably house children they're hoping to have than have the capability to frequent the latest rendition of the Phantom of the Opera at the Metropolitan.


Phantom of the Opera is neither an Opera, nor at the Met. Discuss.

Isn't it considered an operetta, in that it is all sung, not spoken, but "lighter" in subject matter and music?

czelede
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby czelede » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:19 pm

ITT: NYers embody the stereotype of NYers that don't understand why anyone is less than in love with their city.

LLKOOLK1
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby LLKOOLK1 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:26 pm

Based on market salary and average loans (say, 100k), what would you estimate is the appropriate amount to spend on rent in NYC (maybe a range, based on how luxurious you want to go)? I understand this will vary, but what would be a reasonable number?

alumniguy
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby alumniguy » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:32 pm

LLKOOLK1 wrote:Based on market salary and average loans (say, 100k), what would you estimate is the appropriate amount to spend on rent in NYC (maybe a range, based on how luxurious you want to go)? I understand this will vary, but what would be a reasonable number?


I would say expect to pay around $2500. If you are willing to live in Brooklyn/LIC/FiDI, then you can probably get a fairly decent 1-bedroom or alcove studio for around that price in a new building/conversion. If you are looking for a walkup, you can probably find a place in LES/Gramercy/Chelsea/Hells Kitchen for around there.

I think they suggest spending no more than 25% of your take-home pay on housing.

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FantasticMrFox
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby FantasticMrFox » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:36 pm

there are many negative posts (about NY) here but for some reason, this thread makes me want to live in NY more and more :?

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Helmholtz
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby Helmholtz » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:46 pm

FantasticMrFox wrote:there are many negative posts (about NY) here but for some reason, this thread makes me want to live in NY more and more :?


The mark of a true New Yorker is to work hard on loving NYC regardless of what anybody else or common sense says.

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rayiner
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby rayiner » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:54 pm

alumniguy wrote:
rayiner wrote:You're missing the point. What I'm trying to get at is that you're being selective about "experiences" versus "goods." Why is being able to afford the space to have a good kitchen less important, experience-wise, then being able to run out and see ethnic dancing in the park? I cook more than I watch opera* --- why is one experience less valuable then the other? It's not of course. You're just defining things that way because NYC offers a certain set of experiences while not offering others.

*) The fact that NYC-ers don't cook is probably why they put so much stock in stuff like Michilin stars and ratings. They don't know how to judge good food unless someone tells them what's good.


It isn't an experience because you are simply doing daily routines in a nicer space. I have an almost exact same "experience" as you do cooking my breakfast, but my immediate surroundings are just not as spacious as yours. However, you can't see ethnic dancing in the park when there isn't any ethnic dancing in the park.


That's like saying that your morning run through LA smog is no different then a morning run through central park. Cooking in particular can be either a chore or a pleasure depending on what kind of kitchen you're working in.

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dresden doll
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby dresden doll » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:01 pm

quakeroats wrote: Phantom of the Opera is neither an Opera, nor at the Met. Discuss.


I guess my ignorance about these types of things is why I don't appreciate NYC like you do.

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Lwoods
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby Lwoods » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:02 pm

LLKOOLK1 wrote:Based on market salary and average loans (say, 100k), what would you estimate is the appropriate amount to spend on rent in NYC (maybe a range, based on how luxurious you want to go)? I understand this will vary, but what would be a reasonable number?


Your monthly rent should be no more than 1/40th of your annual salary.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:06 pm

rayiner wrote:
alumniguy wrote:
rayiner wrote:You're missing the point. What I'm trying to get at is that you're being selective about "experiences" versus "goods." Why is being able to afford the space to have a good kitchen less important, experience-wise, then being able to run out and see ethnic dancing in the park? I cook more than I watch opera* --- why is one experience less valuable then the other? It's not of course. You're just defining things that way because NYC offers a certain set of experiences while not offering others.

*) The fact that NYC-ers don't cook is probably why they put so much stock in stuff like Michilin stars and ratings. They don't know how to judge good food unless someone tells them what's good.


It isn't an experience because you are simply doing daily routines in a nicer space. I have an almost exact same "experience" as you do cooking my breakfast, but my immediate surroundings are just not as spacious as yours. However, you can't see ethnic dancing in the park when there isn't any ethnic dancing in the park.


That's like saying that your morning run through LA smog is no different then a morning run through central park. Cooking in particular can be either a chore or a pleasure depending on what kind of kitchen you're working in.

Because NYC doesn't have any smog? LA's awful, sure, but it's not like New Yorkers are breathing pristine glacier air.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby Holly Golightly » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:27 pm

bjsesq wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
D-hops wrote:
dresden doll wrote:Subways are the worst thing ever. I yearn for the days when I could commute on the CTA Green Line.

::waits for the world to implode like it should when someone actually compliments CTA::


I didn't know people actually rode the green line. I thought it was some train to nowhere.

It is a train to Hyde Park so you're absolutely correct.


What's worse: stepping off the green into the hood, or stepping off the blue into a pack of fucking worthless hipsters?

Fuck you.

Anonymous User
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:40 pm

Pre-war buildings around here are almost uniformly shit, with a few exceptions. I don't expect sterile, but I was born in the third world and don't expect Bangkok-level sanitation for $2500/mo in the US.

Again, it's not about expectations, it's about fair comparisons. The "whining" in this thread is in response to people downplaying the serious QoL compromises you make in order to get the "vibrancy" and "diversity" of NYC. It's not just like we randomly decided to go to a Yankees game with Mets hats.


...again, this is just completely overstating it. My pre-war building I'm in is absolutely lovely, and there are plenty of pre-war buildings that have been well renovated in NYC. I find it hard to believe that the pre-war buildings are "uniformly shit."

And there's no "serious QoL" compromise. Again, I'm living in an affordable place that's considered a luxury unit. I have no rats. My building has had no bed bugs in the past 10 years (and even before that, probably, but the disclosure form that was given to me only went that far back). The floors have been completely redone. The lobby has a doorman and is adorned with lovely Italian marble. I'm happy to post pictures temporarily to give an idea here. Calling it "Bangkok level sanitation" just smacks of stupidity and an unwillingness to discuss this rationally.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby Holly Golightly » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:44 pm

alumniguy wrote:
LLKOOLK1 wrote:Based on market salary and average loans (say, 100k), what would you estimate is the appropriate amount to spend on rent in NYC (maybe a range, based on how luxurious you want to go)? I understand this will vary, but what would be a reasonable number?


I would say expect to pay around $2500. If you are willing to live in Brooklyn/LIC/FiDI, then you can probably get a fairly decent 1-bedroom or alcove studio for around that price in a new building/conversion. If you are looking for a walkup, you can probably find a place in LES/Gramercy/Chelsea/Hells Kitchen for around there.

I think they suggest spending no more than 25% of your take-home pay on housing.

Yup, this is my problem with NYC. In Chi I have had great 2-bedroom apartments that ran me ~$800/month...by myself. And I had all of that extra money to do everything else that I would have wanted to do in NY...for half the price. You wantto talk about being experience-oriented? How about living in a culturally vibrant city wheteyou can actually afford to do the things you want to do?

alumniguy
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby alumniguy » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:48 pm

Holly Golightly wrote:
alumniguy wrote:
LLKOOLK1 wrote:Based on market salary and average loans (say, 100k), what would you estimate is the appropriate amount to spend on rent in NYC (maybe a range, based on how luxurious you want to go)? I understand this will vary, but what would be a reasonable number?


I would say expect to pay around $2500. If you are willing to live in Brooklyn/LIC/FiDI, then you can probably get a fairly decent 1-bedroom or alcove studio for around that price in a new building/conversion. If you are looking for a walkup, you can probably find a place in LES/Gramercy/Chelsea/Hells Kitchen for around there.

I think they suggest spending no more than 25% of your take-home pay on housing.

Yup, this is my problem with NYC. In Chi I have had great 2-bedroom apartments that ran me ~$800/month...by myself. And I had all of that extra money to do everything else that I would have wanted to do in NY...for half the price. You wantto talk about being experience-oriented? How about living in a culturally vibrant city wheteyou can actually afford to do the things you want to do?


And what exactly do you think you would be foreclosed from doing on a salary of $160k a year in NYC?

Aston2412
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby Aston2412 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:49 pm

Lwoods wrote:
LLKOOLK1 wrote:Based on market salary and average loans (say, 100k), what would you estimate is the appropriate amount to spend on rent in NYC (maybe a range, based on how luxurious you want to go)? I understand this will vary, but what would be a reasonable number?


Your monthly rent should be no more than 1/40th of your annual salary.


Before or after taxes?

seriouslyinformative
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby seriouslyinformative » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:52 pm

Aston2412 wrote:
Lwoods wrote:
LLKOOLK1 wrote:Based on market salary and average loans (say, 100k), what would you estimate is the appropriate amount to spend on rent in NYC (maybe a range, based on how luxurious you want to go)? I understand this will vary, but what would be a reasonable number?


Your monthly rent should be no more than 1/40th of your annual salary.


Before or after taxes?


Before. And if you are going to have a co-signer, he or she needs to make 80 times the rent.

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5ky
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby 5ky » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:53 pm

I don't really care either way here, but all this squabbling reminded me of something.

What is it with people from Chicago that they’re so happy to have been born there? I meet so many people who can’t wait to tell me they’re from Chicago, and when I meet them they’re living anywhere but Chicago.

alumniguy
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby alumniguy » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:56 pm

Aston2412 wrote:
Lwoods wrote:
LLKOOLK1 wrote:Based on market salary and average loans (say, 100k), what would you estimate is the appropriate amount to spend on rent in NYC (maybe a range, based on how luxurious you want to go)? I understand this will vary, but what would be a reasonable number?


Your monthly rent should be no more than 1/40th of your annual salary.


Before or after taxes?


After taxes. While doable on a $160k salary, most people in NYC probably spend more than 40% because housing is the biggest single expense. For example, transportation costs in other cities are significantly more expensive than in NYC and you can justify spending more on housing because you'll spend less on transportation.

1/40th is still a good benchmark...calculated on your after tax earnings ends up at just under $2500.




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