Why do people favor NYC firms?

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thesealocust
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby thesealocust » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:05 pm

Guys, back off. Quakeroats, MFE, in the house. Kid's been through OCI and back like a half dozen times, was proving that Duke placed WAY better in the V10 DC offices (all like 1.5 of them) then other pathetic T14 schools even before he even started law school. Kid's going to get any secondary market job he wants, WHEN he wants, and if you don't believe him, just ask him.

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quakeroats
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby quakeroats » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:39 pm

thesealocust wrote:Guys, back off. Quakeroats, MFE, in the house. Kid's been through OCI and back like a half dozen times, was proving that Duke placed WAY better in the V10 DC offices (all like 1.5 of them) then other pathetic T14 schools even before he even started law school. Kid's going to get any secondary market job he wants, WHEN he wants, and if you don't believe him, just ask him.


lol. I'm speaking from my own experience--and that of several classmates--with three secondary/tertiary markets. This may not apply to others. I'm sure there are tertiary markets that are much more difficult to crack, that just runs counter to my experience.

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thesealocust
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby thesealocust » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:42 pm

quakeroats wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Guys, back off. Quakeroats, MFE, in the house. Kid's been through OCI and back like a half dozen times, was proving that Duke placed WAY better in the V10 DC offices (all like 1.5 of them) then other pathetic T14 schools even before he even started law school. Kid's going to get any secondary market job he wants, WHEN he wants, and if you don't believe him, just ask him.


lol. I'm speaking from my own experience--and that of several classmates--with three secondary/tertiary markets. This may not apply to others. I'm sure there are tertiary markets that are much more difficult to crack, that just runs counter to my experience.


Hear that haters? If you're quaker -- or if you roll with quakers -- the jobs are in the bag. Otherwise, no guarantees. Life's not fair like that.

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quakeroats
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby quakeroats » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:52 pm

thesealocust wrote:Hear that haters? If you're quaker -- or if you roll with quakers -- the jobs are in the bag. Otherwise, no guarantees. Life's not fair like that.


Private schools are where it's.

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thesealocust
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby thesealocust » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:57 pm

Avatar updated to better reflect truth.

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quakeroats
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby quakeroats » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:58 pm

thesealocust wrote:Avatar updated to better reflect truth.


You're the Ted Haggard of quakerhate.

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JetstoRJC
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby JetstoRJC » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:54 pm

quakeroats wrote:Why waste a bid on secondary markets for OCI? As long as you have connections you can have a secondary-market job offer before OCI even starts.


Ummm......

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PKSebben
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby PKSebben » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:10 am

thesealocust wrote:Avatar updated to better reflect truth.



seriously just lolled my face off

imchuckbass58
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby imchuckbass58 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:42 pm

rayiner wrote:
15 minutes? It takes half that just from the time the 7 stops at GCT (on the lower platform) to fight through the crowd and get to an exit. LIC is the only realistic place in Queens an honest 30 minute commute to an office by GCT. Plus, the subway stops in Astoria are pretty sparse, so most apartments aren't anywhere close to a stop. Same is true for Brooklyn Heights, most of the nice new places are a good 10 minute walk from either Borough Hall or Nevins.

I've actually spent my weekends timing this, and I've found that commute times to my office are about:

< 15 minutes: Union Square, Kips Bay, etc
< 20 minutes: nearly anywhere on UES or Hells Kitchen
~ 30 minutes: FiDi, Roosevelt Island (the new developments are right next to a subway stop)
< 40 minutes: UWS
< 45 minutes: Alphabet City, Brooklyn Heights, Astoria, Exchange Place (Jersey City)


Pretty much all of this is completely, blatantly wrong, unless your office is in some bizarre part of Midtown more than 5 blocks from a subway stop.

Right now on a daily basis I commute from the upper west side to Midtown east, and the longest it has ever taken me is 35 minutes. Typically I can make it in 25, and it has taken as little as little as 20. I spent two years commuting from Brooklyn Heights (one of the "nice new places") to Midtown and it took 30 minutes, 40 tops if the trains were delayed.

The fact that these are the times you came up with taking the train on weekends is meaningless - pretty much everything takes 10 more minutes on weekends because the trains run less frequently and often locally. During rush hour (which is presumably when you'll be commuting to work), it takes a lot less time.

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rayiner
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby rayiner » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:11 pm

imchuckbass58 wrote:
rayiner wrote:
15 minutes? It takes half that just from the time the 7 stops at GCT (on the lower platform) to fight through the crowd and get to an exit. LIC is the only realistic place in Queens an honest 30 minute commute to an office by GCT. Plus, the subway stops in Astoria are pretty sparse, so most apartments aren't anywhere close to a stop. Same is true for Brooklyn Heights, most of the nice new places are a good 10 minute walk from either Borough Hall or Nevins.

I've actually spent my weekends timing this, and I've found that commute times to my office are about:

< 15 minutes: Union Square, Kips Bay, etc
< 20 minutes: nearly anywhere on UES or Hells Kitchen
~ 30 minutes: FiDi, Roosevelt Island (the new developments are right next to a subway stop)
< 40 minutes: UWS
< 45 minutes: Alphabet City, Brooklyn Heights, Astoria, Exchange Place (Jersey City)


Pretty much all of this is completely, blatantly wrong, unless your office is in some bizarre part of Midtown more than 5 blocks from a subway stop.

Right now on a daily basis I commute from the upper west side to Midtown east, and the longest it has ever taken me is 35 minutes. Typically I can make it in 25, and it has taken as little as little as 20. I spent two years commuting from Brooklyn Heights (one of the "nice new places") to Midtown and it took 30 minutes, 40 tops if the trains were delayed.

The fact that these are the times you came up with taking the train on weekends is meaningless - pretty much everything takes 10 more minutes on weekends because the trains run less frequently and often locally. During rush hour (which is presumably when you'll be commuting to work), it takes a lot less time.


I commute from 98th and Broadway to my office next to GCT every day. Not physically possible to do that commute in 20 minutes. I live to blocks away from the 96th street station. It takes 5 minutes to walk and wait at the light to across onto the median. 2-3 to get a train. 8 minutes to get to TSQ. 3-4 minutes to transfer to the S. 3-4 on the S from TSQ to GCT (assuming you get one just as it's already leaving). 2-3 minutes to walk through GCT to the Met Life building, another 3-4 minutes to walk to my office (crowded streets). That's physical minimum, unless you run through the station to transfer.

I just can't believe Brooklyn Heights in 30 minutes. The train ride, as scheduled is like 17 minutes from Borough Hall. Add 2-3 minutes to wait for the train. Add another 5-6 minutes to get from the train to your office (unless you work right in the MetLife building), probably more if you work further out than I do. So what nice new development is within 5 minute walking distance of the Borough Hall station in Brooklyn Heights?

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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby goodolgil » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:29 pm

There's also the Clark St. 2/3 station which is closer to Manhattan.

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rayiner
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby rayiner » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:36 pm

goodolgil wrote:There's also the Clark St. 2/3 station which is closer to Manhattan.


The 2/3 is 20 minutes b/w Nevins and TSQ. Say it's 15 minutes b/w Clark and TSQ. 5 min to walk over, 2-3 min to get a train, 3-4 minutes to take the S, 5-7 minutes to walk to your office. Even if the stars align you're looking at well over 30 minutes, and more realistically 35 and up to 40 if you hit train traffic.

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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby imchuckbass58 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:23 am

rayiner wrote:
I commute from 98th and Broadway to my office next to GCT every day. Not physically possible to do that commute in 20 minutes. I live to blocks away from the 96th street station. It takes 5 minutes to walk and wait at the light to across onto the median. 2-3 to get a train. 8 minutes to get to TSQ. 3-4 minutes to transfer to the S. 3-4 on the S from TSQ to GCT (assuming you get one just as it's already leaving). 2-3 minutes to walk through GCT to the Met Life building, another 3-4 minutes to walk to my office (crowded streets). That's physical minimum, unless you run through the station to transfer.


(1) It takes you 5 minutes to walk 2 blocks?

(2) The average headway between 2/3 trains during rush hour is 3 minutes, meaning the average wait is 1.5. Some days, you will be lucky and not wait at all.

(3) It takes you 3-4 minutes to walk the 75 feet from the 2/3 to the S? If you position yourself on the 2/3 so that you're by the back stairwell when it pulls in, it should take a minute.

(4) While your office may be 5-7 minutes from the S, there are several law firms (GDC, Winston and Strawn, STB, DPW) that are literally on top of Grand Central. So I guess I can't quibble with this, but it could be better depending on where you work.

So 2 mins walking + 0 mins waiting (best case) + 8 mins on the 2/3 + 1 min transfer + 3 mins on the S + 3 mins additional walking = 17 minutes. Add in a couple of minutes either waiting for the train, or if you walk slow, or if your office isn't right above GCT, and you're still around 20 minutes. Even if you just miss a train or are 5-7 minutes from the S, you are still around 25 minutes.

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rayiner
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby rayiner » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:41 am

imchuckbass58 wrote:
rayiner wrote:
I commute from 98th and Broadway to my office next to GCT every day. Not physically possible to do that commute in 20 minutes. I live to blocks away from the 96th street station. It takes 5 minutes to walk and wait at the light to across onto the median. 2-3 to get a train. 8 minutes to get to TSQ. 3-4 minutes to transfer to the S. 3-4 on the S from TSQ to GCT (assuming you get one just as it's already leaving). 2-3 minutes to walk through GCT to the Met Life building, another 3-4 minutes to walk to my office (crowded streets). That's physical minimum, unless you run through the station to transfer.


(1) It takes you 5 minutes to walk 2 blocks?

(2) The average headway between 2/3 trains during rush hour is 3 minutes, meaning the average wait is 1.5. Some days, you will be lucky and not wait at all.

(3) It takes you 3-4 minutes to walk the 75 feet from the 2/3 to the S? If you position yourself on the 2/3 so that you're by the back stairwell when it pulls in, it should take a minute.

(4) While your office may be 5-7 minutes from the S, there are several law firms (GDC, Winston and Strawn, STB, DPW) that are literally on top of Grand Central. So I guess I can't quibble with this, but it could be better depending on where you work.

So 2 mins walking + 0 mins waiting (best case) + 8 mins on the 2/3 + 1 min transfer + 3 mins on the S + 3 mins additional walking = 17 minutes. Add in a couple of minutes either waiting for the train, or if you walk slow, or if your office isn't right above GCT, and you're still around 20 minutes. Even if you just miss a train or are 5-7 minutes from the S, you are still around 25 minutes.


1) It is crowded and I have to wait to cross to walk lights.
2) Whenever I catch it the S waits for a bit before leaving.
3) Grand central is huge and a zoo and so is the sidewalk outside. It takes me a full 7-8 minutes to walk from the train to my lobby (timed multiple times). And I work right next to it.

Look I don't want to quibble about details. Maybe you power walk or leave earlier than I do. I know how long it takes me to get to work. Besides that, people are notorious for understating their commute. People say that flushing is "only like 30 min commute."

Studies show NYCers have the longest commutes in the country. It is also a place where even on a biglaw salary affording a place close to work is a stretch. These are definitely downsides to the city.

EDIT: Timing today, left at 9 am.

1:30 - door to sidewalk (prewar elevator).
5:00 - to 2/3 platform (3 crossing lights).
2:00 - train starts moving.
7:30 - touch tsq platform.
7:00 - S train starts moving just missed.
4:30 - out doors of metlife building.
1:30 - at office lobby.
3:00 - at desk.

32 min with no train traffic. Maybe 2 min shorter if I'd made S train, but I never do. Maybe save 3 min by walking like new yorker, runoff up escalators, and crossing without a walk light.
Last edited by rayiner on Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Lwoods
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby Lwoods » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:47 am

You know, Hopstop is pretty accurate with time estimates... though it tends to err on the longer side.

Anyway, the great part about a train commute over a driving commute is that it can be productive, whether it be your zen time or reading time or nap time or typing draft emails on your bberry/iphone time. My current driving commute in the midwest is only 30 minutes one way, compared with my hour+ commute when I lived in the Bronx and worked in Manhattan, but my driving time is completely wasted time. I can't read, I can't write emails, I can't play sudoku on my phone. The best I can do is sing along with the radio, but it's not relaxing. I have to be alert and paying attention the whole time. Sucks. And yes, I know if you're commuting from within Manhattan during rush hour, you're typically standing and crammed in like a sardine, but most New Yorkers can still get stuff done in that situation.

I suppose it's a personal preference thing, though. I personally find driving to be very stressful and exhausting and train/subway travel to be very convenient.

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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:08 am

I just moved to Gramercy. My commute is 15 minutes tops. Studios and 1BRs are affordable on a biglaw salary, as are other areas with great commutes. Those who complain typically have sky-high demands (luxury condo-like rentals with a doorman, etc.). But my apartment is plenty fine. If you don't have unreasonably high living standards, you should be fine. And yes, expecting there to be affordable new condo-like buildings in the center of Manhattan is unreasonable. If you want to be that pampered, go to Williamsburg and stop complaining.

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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby rayiner » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:17 am

Lwoods wrote:You know, Hopstop is pretty accurate with time estimates... though it tends to err on the longer side.

Anyway, the great part about a train commute over a driving commute is that it can be productive, whether it be your zen time or reading time or nap time or typing draft emails on your bberry/iphone time. My current driving commute in the midwest is only 30 minutes one way, compared with my hour+ commute when I lived in the Bronx and worked in Manhattan, but my driving time is completely wasted time. I can't read, I can't write emails, I can't play sudoku on my phone. The best I can do is sing along with the radio, but it's not relaxing. I have to be alert and paying attention the whole time. Sucks. And yes, I know if you're commuting from within Manhattan during rush hour, you're typically standing and crammed in like a sardine, but most New Yorkers can still get stuff done in that situation.

I suppose it's a personal preference thing, though. I personally find driving to be very stressful and exhausting and train/subway travel to be very convenient.



I used to have a 30 min driving commute in ATL. At least there I could relax and listen to music and see sunlight. With my 30 min subway commute I'm standing elbow to elbow with people the whole way in a way too hot metal tube, transferring in unaircondioned dingy catacombs.

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quakeroats
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby quakeroats » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:19 am

rayiner wrote:I used to have a 30 min driving commute in ATL. At least there I could relax and listen to music and see sunlight. With my 30 min subway commute I'm standing elbow to elbow with people the whole way in a way too hot metal tube, transferring in unaircondioned dingy catacombs.


Atlanta may be the country's worst driving experience east of the Mississippi.

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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby Aston2412 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:21 am

quakeroats wrote:
rayiner wrote:I used to have a 30 min driving commute in ATL. At least there I could relax and listen to music and see sunlight. With my 30 min subway commute I'm standing elbow to elbow with people the whole way in a way too hot metal tube, transferring in unaircondioned dingy catacombs.


Atlanta may be the country's worst driving experience east of the Mississippi.


I think that distinction might belong to DC or Boston.

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rayiner
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby rayiner » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:21 am

quakeroats wrote:
rayiner wrote:I used to have a 30 min driving commute in ATL. At least there I could relax and listen to music and see sunlight. With my 30 min subway commute I'm standing elbow to elbow with people the whole way in a way too hot metal tube, transferring in unaircondioned dingy catacombs.


Atlanta may be the country's worst driving experience east of the Mississippi.


DC, NY, and Boston are way worse. At least ATL has parking.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby Helmholtz » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:21 am

rayiner wrote:I used to have a 30 min driving commute in ATL. At least there I could relax and listen to music and see sunlight. With my 30 min subway commute I'm standing elbow to elbow with people the whole way in a way too hot metal tube, transferring in unaircondioned dingy catacombs.


That's funny. I would much rather prefer reading on the subway versus driving in a car and listening to podcasts/music. But then again, I don't transfer and just ride the express all the way down.

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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby Aston2412 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:23 am

Lwoods wrote:
Anyway, the great part about a train commute over a driving commute is that it can be productive, whether it be your zen time or reading time or nap time or typing draft emails on your bberry/iphone time. My current driving commute in the midwest is only 30 minutes one way, compared with my hour+ commute when I lived in the Bronx and worked in Manhattan, but my driving time is completely wasted time. I can't read, I can't write emails, I can't play sudoku on my phone. The best I can do is sing along with the radio, but it's not relaxing. I have to be alert and paying attention the whole time. Sucks. And yes, I know if you're commuting from within Manhattan during rush hour, you're typically standing and crammed in like a sardine, but most New Yorkers can still get stuff done in that situation.

I suppose it's a personal preference thing, though. I personally find driving to be very stressful and exhausting and train/subway travel to be very convenient.


I'll echo this. I have a 40 minute driving commute presently. I would trade that in a heartbeat for an hour train/subway commute. In that hour I could sleep, read, surf the net or play video games! Hell, in an hour I could do all three!

Driving all I can do is listen to talk radio (because normal music puts me to sleep) and swear loudly at the crazy idiots on the road.

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rayiner
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby rayiner » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:I just moved to Gramercy. My commute is 15 minutes tops. Studios and 1BRs are affordable on a biglaw salary, as are other areas with great commutes. Those who complain typically have sky-high demands (luxury condo-like rentals with a doorman, etc.). But my apartment is plenty fine. If you don't have unreasonably high living standards, you should be fine. And yes, expecting there to be affordable new condo-like buildings in the center of Manhattan is unreasonable. If you want to be that pampered, go to Williamsburg and stop complaining.


LOL @ "sky-high" demands. Modern finishes and a gym on a $160k salary? Ridiculous demands!

In any case it's not the expectations, it's the comparison. Chicago biglawyers are living in brand new luxury apartments by the lake a 10 minute walk from work. New York biglawers are living in worse accomodations than I do as a law student in Chicago.

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rayiner
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby rayiner » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:26 am

Aston2412 wrote:
Lwoods wrote:
Anyway, the great part about a train commute over a driving commute is that it can be productive, whether it be your zen time or reading time or nap time or typing draft emails on your bberry/iphone time. My current driving commute in the midwest is only 30 minutes one way, compared with my hour+ commute when I lived in the Bronx and worked in Manhattan, but my driving time is completely wasted time. I can't read, I can't write emails, I can't play sudoku on my phone. The best I can do is sing along with the radio, but it's not relaxing. I have to be alert and paying attention the whole time. Sucks. And yes, I know if you're commuting from within Manhattan during rush hour, you're typically standing and crammed in like a sardine, but most New Yorkers can still get stuff done in that situation.

I suppose it's a personal preference thing, though. I personally find driving to be very stressful and exhausting and train/subway travel to be very convenient.


I'll echo this. I have a 40 minute driving commute presently. I would trade that in a heartbeat for an hour train/subway commute. In that hour I could sleep, read, surf the net or play video games! Hell, in an hour I could do all three!

Driving all I can do is listen to talk radio (because normal music puts me to sleep) and swear loudly at the crazy idiots on the road.


You can't do any of those things on an NYC subway commute, unless you can read standing up with your face jammed up against someone's arm.

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dresden doll
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Re: Why do people favor NYC firms?

Postby dresden doll » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:26 am

thesealocust wrote:Guys, back off. Quakeroats, MFE, in the house. Kid's been through OCI and back like a half dozen times, was proving that Duke placed WAY better in the V10 DC offices (all like 1.5 of them) then other pathetic T14 schools even before he even started law school. Kid's going to get any secondary market job he wants, WHEN he wants, and if you don't believe him, just ask him.

You are a very good poster.




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