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Anonymous User
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Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:43 pm

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vamedic03
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Re: Take Semester Off to Campaign?

Postby vamedic03 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Think my long-term goal is to get into politics, but my plan is very much to go to a firm for a few years after graduation - first, to help pay off loans, and second, to see if I happen to like the private sector better.

So, with the 2012 campaigns coming up, my question is whether it would be crazy to take a semester off to try and get a substantial campaign job (class of 2013 at a CCN here). Mainly, the questions are whether it would be possible to siphon off the missed semester's classes into other semesters (in terms of workload), and whether not working for a firm during my 2L summer would be fatal (provided I was at a campaign for either a presidential or senatorial candidate) even if I graduated on time. I guess a related question would be whether graduating late (Class of 2014) instead of trying to fit six semesters into five would have any other benefits/costs besides the obvious "standing out in a bad way."

My instinct is that it's not workable, but if anyone has actual experience out there, I'd love to hear more about it. For the haters, yeah I already know that the standard thing is to just find an SA position, so save your sarcastic responses for the kids in the admissions forum.


^ Bolded isn't just the standard thing - it is the model for biglaw hiring. So, if you want to work for a big law firm, which you stated in your first line, then you really should get an SA position.

This isn't about "hating"; rather, it's about recognizing that, at a certain point, some career decisions are relatively irreversible. If you want to work for a biglaw firm, then you need to do an SA. Sure, a small percentage will get biglaw 3L year, etc, but that's the unusual pathway.

As far as whether you can take a semester off and graduate on time, that's a matter for you to discuss with your law school. None of us are law school administrators and none of us are able to set policy. If you want to know if it's possible, email and ask.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

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Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:15 pm

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vamedic03
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Re: Take Semester Off to Campaign?

Postby vamedic03 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Wow, thanks for letting me know that a law school would know its own administrative policy. Question was obviously more about whether it's something a person can handle personally and academically.

Also, some people realize that there are (substantial) risks inherent to every choice and affirmatively seek help in navigating those risks. Your response: "There's a risk! If you take it, you'll be taking a risk!"....not helpful dude. And don't take this as someone not being grateful for your wisdom, take it as someone pointing out that you're not super wise.

If anyone has actual experience working for campaigns during law school - whether by taking time off, taking on a credited internship during the fall semester, etc., I'm really eager to hear about your experience. Maybe just go back to bed if you don't have any experience outside of taking the standard track to a firm.


Try not being a complete jerk when you ask for help.

ETA - why anonymous? Being a jerk is not a reason for the anonymous feature.

2LLLL
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Re: Take Semester Off to Campaign?

Postby 2LLLL » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:35 pm

OP here. Wow, thanks for letting me know that a law school would know its own administrative policy. Question was obviously more about whether it's something a person can handle personally and academically.

Also, some people realize that there are (substantial) risks inherent to every choice and affirmatively seek help in navigating those risks. Your response: "There's a risk! If you take it, you'll be taking a risk!"....not helpful dude. And don't take this as someone not being grateful for your wisdom, take it as someone pointing out that you're not super wise.

If anyone has actual experience working for campaigns during law school - whether by taking time off, taking on a credited internship during the fall semester, etc., I'm really eager to hear about your experience. Maybe just go back to bed if you don't have any experience outside of taking the standard track to a firm.




If you're interested in getting into politics, then working on a campaign would seem to be a great way to make connections, which I assume are very important in the political context. If you're interested in working at a big firm, then obviously you have to block out your 2L summer for that. So on some level you may have to make a choice between these two options. That being said, former governor of MD Robert Ehrlich worked at a Midlaw firm in Baltimore, and an associate who took me to lunch during a callback in a Mid-Atlantic secondary market was in the process of running for the state legislature while employed by the firm. So, while campaigning is a good way to make connections, you may be able to also make connections by being involved while working at a firm.

Taking a semester off may be tough. As I'm sure you know from your 1L year so far, law school is very demanding on your time. If you're able to redistribute the credits over your remaining time at the school--which as vamedic said you will want to talk to your school about--you have to consider how much work you're willing to put in. Do you want to do journal, moot court, externships? All of these take up a lot more time than their credit allotment would indicate.

Anonymous User
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Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:08 pm

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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fatduck
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Re: Take Semester Off to Campaign?

Postby fatduck » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP. 2LLLL - those are really good points. Thanks for the great advice, definitely going to keep in mind.

vamedic...anonymous because being somehow tracked back as a person who's going to bail on biglaw 3 years into it wouldn't be fun, however unlikely the scenario might be. also, there's a difference between being a "jerk" and not being enamored of the kid who's (metaphor alert) always raising his/her hand in class to triumphantly make the exact point that was made in a casebook note. i was pretty earnest in asking for help, and you gave a relatively insulting response. read over what you said originally and ask whether there's any way a 1L at a top school wouldn't have already known what you were posting.

don't bother campaigning - trump isn't going to win, anyway

Renzo
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Re: Take Semester Off to Campaign?

Postby Renzo » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote: read over what you said originally and ask whether there's any way a 1L at a top school wouldn't have already known what you were posting.


Oh. So your anonymous because you asked a stupid question to which you already know the answer?

As VA said, if you want a biglaw gig, there is one way to make that happen--a 2L SA job. You have an either/or choice: take a 2L SA job, or don't go to a big firm when you graduate. HTH.

keg411
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Re: Take Semester Off to Campaign?

Postby keg411 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:15 pm

OP, I know someone who recently graduated from CCN did a whole bunch of campaign work (though mostly local politics, not national politics) without taking a semester off and did the standard 2L SA thing. I think it's possible as long as you aren't on LR or anything like that.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

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Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:20 pm

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Renzo
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Re: Take Semester Off to Campaign?

Postby Renzo » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:42 pm

I have several classmates who have either A) worked on campaigns while in school B) run for office themselves C) taken time off for politics-related reasons. Not one of them wants to go to a firm when they graduate. But, you said "my plan is very much to go to a firm for a few years after graduation," so we have given the best advice we can: you can do something screwy with your schedule, or you can (potentially) have a firm job. Not both. No way. No how.

In short, yes, it would be crazy. If this isn't the answer you want, you're asking the wrong question.

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vamedic03
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Re: Take Semester Off to Campaign?

Postby vamedic03 » Sun May 01, 2011 11:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP. 2LLLL - those are really good points. Thanks for the great advice, definitely going to keep in mind.

vamedic...anonymous because being somehow tracked back as a person who's going to bail on biglaw 3 years into it wouldn't be fun, however unlikely the scenario might be. also, there's a difference between being a "jerk" and not being enamored of the kid who's (metaphor alert) always raising his/her hand in class to triumphantly make the exact point that was made in a casebook note. i was pretty earnest in asking for help, and you gave a relatively insulting response. read over what you said originally and ask whether there's any way a 1L at a top school wouldn't have already known what you were posting.


(1) I hate to tell you this, but big law is centered around the "person who's going to bail on 3 years." And, it's not as though you're discussing any specifics about firms or any particular information such as GPA that needs absolute anonymity.

(2) Using anonymous posting for ad hominem attacks is inappropriate and a rather blatant abuse of the feature.

(3) Your convoluted question was: (a) Can I get biglaw without doing a 2L SA? I answered that in the negative (because that's the correct answer). (b) Can I take a semester off and still graduate on time? I answered that you have to ask your school because: (i) every school has different policies and different credit requirements and (ii) even if someone has experience with this, it will be very, very school specific. FWIW, I know many schools that require 6 semesters in residence or participation in a joint degree program.

(4) Because I didn't give you the answer you wanted, you decided to go off on two rants against me. If you didn't like my advice don't respond to it - but certainly don't attack me while hiding behind the anonymous feature. That's simply insulting.

(5) As others have posted, plenty of people manage to do internships, while doing full credit loads, while on Law Review, while applying to law firms.

Stanislaw Carter
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Re: Take Semester Off to Campaign?

Postby Stanislaw Carter » Sun May 01, 2011 11:16 am

I hate to tell you this, but big law is centered around the "person who's going to bail on 3 years.


The paradoxical thing about biglaw is that partners want associates who intend to stay for the long-haul, despite the fact most associates will leave/be pushed out in the 8 or so years to partnership. In other words, coming off as a "tourist" (as Evan Chesler calls it) is detrimental to your chances of getting a summer associate position. So his point is somewhat valid, if tainted by the fact that it's unlikely a firm will trace it back to him.

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rayiner
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Re: Take Semester Off to Campaign?

Postby rayiner » Sun May 01, 2011 11:21 am

Not doing a 2L SA will be fatal. A few firms picked up 3Ls last year to make up for under-hiring at OCI 2011, but we're talking just a handful of people, and most were a SullCrom which was picking up folks looking to trade-up after their 2L SA.

Also, most schools require you to do your graduation requirements in six semesters.

Also, possibly the only thing you could do less useful than being a summer associate is campaigning.

Renzo
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Re: Take Semester Off to Campaign?

Postby Renzo » Sun May 01, 2011 11:26 am

Stanislaw Carter wrote:
I hate to tell you this, but big law is centered around the "person who's going to bail on 3 years.


The paradoxical thing about biglaw is that partners want associates who intend to stay for the long-haul, despite the fact most associates will leave/be pushed out in the 8 or so years to partnership. In other words, coming off as a "tourist" (as Evan Chesler calls it) is detrimental to your chances of getting a summer associate position. So his point is somewhat valid, if tainted by the fact that it's unlikely a firm will trace it back to him.


This is because the current partners want new hires to work themselves to death before they leave, and one way to get them to do so is to convince them that they want to be a partner themselves someday. Someone who (realistically) treats the job like it will only last a few years isn't going to earn for the partners the way a deluded partnership-gunner will.

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holdencaulfield
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Re: Take Semester Off to Campaign?

Postby holdencaulfield » Sun May 01, 2011 11:58 am

I will not be voting for OP.

keg411
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Re: Take Semester Off to Campaign?

Postby keg411 » Sun May 01, 2011 12:55 pm

rayiner wrote:Not doing a 2L SA will be fatal. A few firms picked up 3Ls last year to make up for under-hiring at OCI 2011, but we're talking just a handful of people, and most were a SullCrom which was picking up folks looking to trade-up after their 2L SA.


That's what I was trying to tell OP - you can do a normal BigLaw 2L SA and have a regular class schedule and still do campaign work (at least that's what my friend did. I have zero interest in politics).

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Patriot1208
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Re: Take Semester Off to Campaign?

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun May 01, 2011 1:07 pm

ITT we learn OP has aspergers

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Take Semester Off to Campaign?

Postby JamMasterJ » Sun May 01, 2011 1:15 pm

I didn't read all the responses, but is it possible for you to work the campaign position as some sort of for-credit internship? You may be able to avoid taking the semester off or at least lighten the amount that you will have to make up

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: Take Semester Off to Campaign?

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Sun May 01, 2011 1:28 pm

ITT: And this, my dear friends, is why we take MVP with scholarship.*







*Totally kidding. Kind of. 97%. :wink:

ran12
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Re: Take Semester Off to Campaign?

Postby ran12 » Sun May 01, 2011 3:28 pm

If you wanna do biglaw and be a politician, the best way to do that is do a SA and go to biglaw and forget about campaigning in law school unless you can do something part time that wouldn't effect your classes, summers, graduating on time. You'll make plenty of connections in biglaw. It's a lot smarter to focus on SA and biglaw b/c most lawyers become politicians via connections they make in biglaw, not through campaigning. Plus, seems like you don't have extensive campaigning or interning experience in gov't so it's not likely you'll get a prime campaigning job that'll help you more than biglaw would.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Take Semester Off to Campaign?

Postby vanwinkle » Sun May 01, 2011 4:05 pm

JetSetter68 wrote:OP. First of all, I'm using the anon feature for what everyone else uses it for - keeping any possible info that would make it harder to get a job from potential employers.

1) This is not what the anon feature is for. It's for people who need to disclose/discuss sensitive information without linking their knowledge to their existing TLS identity, which may make them identifiable to the source of the information. "Hey I want to work in politics" is not at all sensitive, it's just broad general discussion common to a lot of law students.

2) Even counting the posts in this thread you have fewer than 10 posts.

3) When you start attacking posters for providing advice you don't like, your use of anon is going to be scrutinized a lot more closely for reasons not to out you. I don't see any.

The anon feature is meant for legitimate protection of existing users, and definitely not meant as a shield to hide behind while you criticize respondents. Hopefully people can keep these things in mind in the future. For more rules, or to discuss this, see the following post instead of responding here: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=130748

People who wish to continue discussing the thread topics may now do so.

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tome
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Re: Take Semester Off to Campaign?

Postby tome » Mon May 02, 2011 10:03 am

Why not defer for a year, and do your 2L summer after your deferred year?

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Take Semester Off to Campaign?

Postby JamMasterJ » Tue May 03, 2011 1:55 am

VW kicks ass so hard

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Moxie
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Re: Take Semester Off to Campaign?

Postby Moxie » Tue May 03, 2011 8:16 am

tome wrote:Why not defer for a year, and do your 2L summer after your deferred year?


He's already in LS right now. (Class of '13 according to OP)




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