Poverty, taste, and biglaw Forum

[Julio_El_Chavo]

OP, why don't you and I start our own shop? You seem like a good dood.

[dr123]

Never tasted wine? Wut.

LOL cant believe I missed that

OP if you've never had wine its not expensive hobos drink the stuff

if you meant you've never gone wine tasting at a winery, thats not expensive either. Just go to a vineyard, most of em have free tastings

[DoubleChecks]

racial lines

What is this, the 1960s? I mean, I guess it COULD be like this in biglaw, but it hasn't been like this in any office environment in which I've worked. . . ever. People rarely hire people they don't get along with and hiring committees aren't racially homogenous and people don't become or stay high-powered professionals if they don't network across racial lines.

Social class is a much more potent predictor of fit.

wait, are you saying there arent workplace barriers for minorities, say in the biglaw world? or are you just saying firms arent completely racially homogeneous and that they do network across racial lines?

if the first, GTFO. if the second, yeah i agree.

[Leira7905]

Never tasted wine? Wut.

LOL cant believe I missed that

OP if you've never had wine its not expensive hobos drink the stuff

if you meant you've never gone wine tasting at a winery, thats not expensive either. Just go to a vineyard, most of em have free tastings

Red: Cabernet Sauvignon
White: can't go wrong with a nice Pinot Grigio

when in doubt, look at the prices and order something in the middle... Not too cheap, not too expensive.

ETA: Never, Never order pink wine.... Ever.

[Anonymous User]

I stated openly during my summer program that I honestly couldn't tell the difference between Andre and Moët. I got laughter (with me, not at me), and even some nods of acknowledgement from some partners.

[DoubleChecks]

Never tasted wine? Wut.

LOL cant believe I missed that

OP if you've never had wine its not expensive hobos drink the stuff

if you meant you've never gone wine tasting at a winery, thats not expensive either. Just go to a vineyard, most of em have free tastings

Red: Cabernet Sauvignon
White: can't go wrong with a nice Pinot Grigio

when in doubt, look at the prices and order something in the middle... Not too cheap, not too expensive.

ETA: Never, Never order pink wine.... Ever.

white: riesling if you dont often drink wine

[Anonymous User]

What you need is a good book on etiquette, preferably this (an older edition would work just fine).

The most important thing is etiquette. If you are always polite, well-mannered, and willing to learn about new things, ignorance is quickly forgiven and forgotten.

This is good advice. I highly, highly recommend Letitia Baldrige's New Complete Guide to Executive Manners.

Also, don't worry too much about it. Yes, rich people yacht and golf and drink absurdly expensive bordeaux. But rich people also ski, and shoot quail, and watch baseball, and drink beer. There's no need to pretend to like "rich" stuff; it's better just to try and find common ground for conversation, and there's almost always something.

[gabbagabba]

racial lines

What is this, the 1960s? I mean, I guess it COULD be like this in biglaw, but it hasn't been like this in any office environment in which I've worked. . . ever. People rarely hire people they don't get along with and hiring committees aren't racially homogenous and people don't become or stay high-powered professionals if they don't network across racial lines.

Social class is a much more potent predictor of fit.

wait, are you saying there arent workplace barriers for minorities, say in the biglaw world? or are you just saying firms arent completely racially homogeneous and that they do network across racial lines?

if the first, GTFO. if the second, yeah i agree.

riiiiight. Lawyers are the biggest donors to the Democratic party, ahead of even unions in their donations, and they gave in record amounts in 2008 to elect Obama. But somehow, the biggest donors to democrats and the ones who'll raise the most money for him in 2012 are all secretly closet racists who hate to see a black guy in their offices.

Yeah, that makes sense

[Veyron]

racial lines

What is this, the 1960s? I mean, I guess it COULD be like this in biglaw, but it hasn't been like this in any office environment in which I've worked. . . ever. People rarely hire people they don't get along with and hiring committees aren't racially homogenous and people don't become or stay high-powered professionals if they don't network across racial lines.

Social class is a much more potent predictor of fit.

wait, are you saying there arent workplace barriers for minorities, say in the biglaw world? or are you just saying firms arent completely racially homogeneous and that they do network across racial lines?

if the first, GTFO. if the second, yeah i agree.

The 2nd. Obviously minorities are underrepresented in the professions.

[Stanislaw Carter]

The 2nd. Obviously minorities are underrepresented in the professions.

The second is intuitively obvious. My posts were more about the first.

[Stanislaw Carter]

riiiiight. Lawyers are the biggest donors to the Democratic party, ahead of even unions in their donations, and they gave in record amounts in 2008 to elect Obama. But somehow, the biggest donors to democrats are all secretly closet racists who hate to see a black guy in their offices.

Yeah, that makes sense

You don't have to be racist or a republican to be stuck in a mindset of white privilege and to fail to understand what people who are not born in that privilege experience. I'm not saying that people not in white privilege suffer inordinately (though that is the case for some segments of the population). I am saying that white privilege subconsciously influences things in almost every segment of corporate America. You don't have to refer to someone with a racial slur to exclude them from power structures. Most of the time, stuff a lot less facially offensive will do the job.

[Veyron]

riiiiight. Lawyers are the biggest donors to the Democratic party, ahead of even unions in their donations, and they gave in record amounts in 2008 to elect Obama. But somehow, the biggest donors to democrats are all secretly closet racists who hate to see a black guy in their offices.

Yeah, that makes sense

You don't have to be racist or a republican to be stuck in a mindset of white privilege and to fail to understand what people who are not born in that privilege experience. I'm not saying that people not in white privilege suffer inordinately (though that is the case for some segments of the population). I am saying that white privilege subconsciously influences things in almost every segment of corporate America. You don't have to refer to someone with a racial slur to exclude them from power structures. Most of the time, stuff a lot less facially offensive will do the job.

Lol, white privelage. Class is everything bro. I can't tell you how many minorities I know that are WELL integrated with the power structure because they come from money. G-d bless America.

[gabbagabba]

riiiiight. Lawyers are the biggest donors to the Democratic party, ahead of even unions in their donations, and they gave in record amounts in 2008 to elect Obama. But somehow, the biggest donors to democrats are all secretly closet racists who hate to see a black guy in their offices.

Yeah, that makes sense

You don't have to be racist or a republican to be stuck in a mindset of white privilege and to fail to understand what people who are not born in that privilege experience. I'm not saying that people not in white privilege suffer inordinately (though that is the case for some segments of the population). I am saying that white privilege subconsciously influences things in almost every segment of corporate America. You don't have to refer to someone with a racial slur to exclude them from power structures. Most of the time, stuff a lot less facially offensive will do the job.

Now you're getting into equal opportunity vs equal outcome, which is another debate entirely.

But I still find it completely moronic how people think biglaw is racist, when they've been the biggest donors to democrats for decades. How can people say law is racist?

It's like saying Planned Parenthood is full of KKK members and racist because most of the abortions they perform are for black women.

[Stanislaw Carter]

Lol, white privelage. Class is everything bro. I can't tell you how many minorities I know that are WELL integrated with the power structure because they come from money. G-d bless America.

Even if you do know people that have in fact 100% integrated into these power structures, that doesn't disprove my argument. Try again.

[Stanislaw Carter]

But I still find it completely moronic how people think biglaw is racist, when they've the biggest donors to democrats for decades. How can people say law is racist?

Errrr... I know plenty of racist democrats. Donating to the democratic party doesn't automatically make one not racist.

[Leira7905]

It's like saying Planned Parenthood is full of KKK members and racist because most of the abortions they perform are for black women.

[Stringer6]

Whoever turned this into a politics discussion is a jerk

[Veyron]

Lol, white privelage. Class is everything bro. I can't tell you how many minorities I know that are WELL integrated with the power structure because they come from money. G-d bless America.

Even if you do know people that have in fact 100% integrated into these power structures, that doesn't disprove my argument. Try again.

*Waits for emperical data on "white-privilege"*

*Doesn't hold breath*

[gabbagabba]

Whoever turned this into a politics discussion is a jerk

First post to bring racial tensions as a potential problem was . . .

Conversational problems between young associates and partners don't just arise along income lines. They also arise along gender and racial lines. Just be polite, talk about something you can both relate to. If you can't relate to anything, talk about their work.

Aside from that, just have good table manners. If anything, I think people who come from low-income backgrounds tend to stand out in a good way. They tend to be humble and don't feel any sense of entitlement. If you don't know what wine to order (which shouldn't be a problem, as a summer associate will never be asked to select the wines) or how to do some "high-class" thing, it really doesn't matter. Heck, I'd just blatantly say, "I have no idea about wines." It breaks up the pretentiousness quite a bit.

[Stanislaw Carter]

*Waits for emperical data on "white-privilege"*

*Doesn't hold breath*

*Waits for 1L to get out of a thread he can have no input on*

*Doesn't hold breath*

[Stanislaw Carter]

First post to bring racial tensions as a potential problem was . . .

a) Never said there were racial tensions. Just that there are racial barriers to effective communication between people, just like there are generational barriers and gender barriers.

b) Mentioning these barriers does not turn a conversation into politics.

[Veyron]

-

[Veyron]

*Waits for 1L to get out of a thread he can have no input on*

*Doesn't hold breath*

*Is straight from undergrad*

*Thinks that no 1Ls have valuable insight into working in a professional environment with highly paid professionals*

[Stanislaw Carter]

*Is straight from undergrad*

You don't know anything about me.

*Thinks that no 1Ls have valuable insight into working in a professional environment with highly paid professionals*

Nope. I just think that you have no valuable insight because you haven't worked at a big law firm, and that working for another corporation doesn't necessarily make you qualified to speak on this issue.

[Leira7905]

*Waits for emperical data on "white-privilege"*

*Doesn't hold breath*

*Waits for 1L to get out of a thread he can have no input on*

*Doesn't hold breath*

What? Why do you have to be 2L, 3L, and beyond to have had experience interacting with professionals with a higher socio-economic status... Some people have relevant input from previous professions/life experience.