Firm offers and Clerkships

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Anonymous User
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Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:34 pm

When is a good time to tell your firm you are applying or considering applying? Should you wait for your permanent offer from your firm?

Also, do most firms hold your spot for you for the year, or do they just let you go? I'm talking specifically about district court and not COA. Do most firms let you defer a year?

Thanks,

Worried 2L/rising 3L

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Georgiana
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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby Georgiana » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:When is a good time to tell your firm you are applying or considering applying? Should you wait for your permanent offer from your firm?

Also, do most firms hold your spot for you for the year, or do they just let you go? I'm talking specifically about district court and not COA. Do most firms let you defer a year?

Thanks,

Worried 2L/rising 3L

It gets discussed a lot over summer (people talk about the clerkships they did, ask if you're applying, etc) and the recruiting people asked at the end of summer. At my firm they said they keep the offer open for a year but there's no promise you can come back if you decide to do 2 years of clerking. Every firm is different, just ask what their policy is, they should LIKE clerks so I doubt they'll have a problem with it. Good luck!

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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:52 pm

My firm's website used to say that there is a 50k sign on bonus for clerks. It no longer says this. Safe to assume I'm totally screwed if I accept a clerkship in the fall?

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Georgiana
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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby Georgiana » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:My firm's website used to say that there is a 50k sign on bonus for clerks. It no longer says this. Safe to assume I'm totally screwed if I accept a clerkship in the fall?

Just ask. Some firms have conditional bonuses for clerkships (e.g. has to be federal/appellate or you have to be going into litigation). Really depends on the firm and the clerkship.

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swc65
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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby swc65 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:15 pm

I was always under the impression that firms wanted their incoming associates to clerk (hence the bonuses and class bumps).

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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby Stanislaw Carter » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:16 pm

swc65 wrote:I was always under the impression that firms wanted their incoming associates to clerk (hence the bonuses and class bumps).


...they probably don't want their corporate associates necessarily to clerk.

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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:17 pm

Georgiana wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:My firm's website used to say that there is a 50k sign on bonus for clerks. It no longer says this. Safe to assume I'm totally screwed if I accept a clerkship in the fall?

Just ask. Some firms have conditional bonuses for clerkships (e.g. has to be federal/appellate or you have to be going into litigation). Really depends on the firm and the clerkship.


Will asking jeopardize my chances of receiving a permanent offer this summer? I know it's generally assumed that firms want their summers to clerk and/or value the experience, but is it possible they will figure - oh, he's not coming here anyway, so let's not waste the offer? Sorry - I know I'm being paranoid.

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Georgiana
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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby Georgiana » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Georgiana wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:My firm's website used to say that there is a 50k sign on bonus for clerks. It no longer says this. Safe to assume I'm totally screwed if I accept a clerkship in the fall?

Just ask. Some firms have conditional bonuses for clerkships (e.g. has to be federal/appellate or you have to be going into litigation). Really depends on the firm and the clerkship.


Will asking jeopardize my chances of receiving a permanent offer this summer? I know it's generally assumed that firms want their summers to clerk and/or value the experience, but is it possible they will figure - oh, he's not coming here anyway, so let's not waste the offer? Sorry - I know I'm being paranoid.

Wait until you're there for the summer and get a feel for the recruiting people and their openness. Pick the person who goes out to the events with you/stays late/parties with you all and ask them on a friendly basis. My summer we had a lunch with recruiting where we got to turn in questions anonymously throughout the summer and they were answered at the end. I don't think anything crazy was asked and a lot of it was about clerkships (if they aren't doing something similar you could suggest it).

I don't think you should fear asking, but it isn't time sensitive so you could just bring it up in conversation over the summer.

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swc65
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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby swc65 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:36 pm

Could you ask a 3L at your school you summered there last year. Or even an alumnus who works there?

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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:02 pm

what about time sensitive questions, like for judges who hire off plan? there are a bunch of COA judges who interview super early. would you recommend emailing your firm in this situation?

No alumni at the firm, otherwise I'd try that angle. Sigh.

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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby zomginternets » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:My firm's website used to say that there is a 50k sign on bonus for clerks. It no longer says this. Safe to assume I'm totally screwed if I accept a clerkship in the fall?


... maybe they just don't want to pay them $50k anymore? I highly highly doubt they suddenly started hating clerks, their wallets just probably tightened up a bit ITE.

If they liked clerks before, they still like them now, so don't worry.

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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby Stanislaw Carter » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:18 pm

If they liked clerks before, they still like them now, so don't worry.


That's an iffy proposition for many firms ITE.

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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:19 pm

Stanislaw Carter wrote:
If they liked clerks before, they still like them now, so don't worry.


That's an iffy proposition for many firms ITE.


Meaning clerking can actually hurt your chances of getting a perm offer if the firm knew about it?!?!

Stanislaw Carter
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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby Stanislaw Carter » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Stanislaw Carter wrote:
If they liked clerks before, they still like them now, so don't worry.


That's an iffy proposition for many firms ITE.


Meaning clerking can actually hurt your chances of getting a perm offer if the firm knew about it?!?!


Not necessarily. I meant that more in the sense that I know firms that have given summer associates who were going to clerk (and made clear this intention) offers, but later informed them that they weren't welcome back. Others simply revoked the bonus.

Either way, I think Georgiana is right here. When you get a sense of the culture of your firm over the summer, you should decide for yourself whether to raise it. It's also hardly sensitive or consequential to ask random questions about clerking.

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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:26 pm

Stanislaw Carter wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Stanislaw Carter wrote:
If they liked clerks before, they still like them now, so don't worry.


That's an iffy proposition for many firms ITE.


Meaning clerking can actually hurt your chances of getting a perm offer if the firm knew about it?!?!


Not necessarily. I meant that more in the sense that I know firms that have given summer associates who were going to clerk (and made clear this intention) offers, but later informed them that they weren't welcome back. Others simply revoked the bonus.

Either way, I think Georgiana is right here. When you get a sense of the culture of your firm over the summer, you should decide for yourself whether to raise it. It's also hardly sensitive or consequential to ask random questions about clerking.


Ouch. Okay, going off of that....let's say your offer gets revoked afterwards. How hard is it to find firm work again? Having been an SA once and getting an Article 3 clerkship should make the job search a bit easier, no?

I hate that we have to plan oh, I don't know, about the next five years of our lives right now. :(

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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby IzziesGal » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:27 pm

Stanislaw Carter wrote:

Not necessarily. I meant that more in the sense that I know firms that have given summer associates who were going to clerk (and made clear this intention) offers, but later informed them that they weren't welcome back. Others simply revoked the bonus.

Either way, I think Georgiana is right here. When you get a sense of the culture of your firm over the summer, you should decide for yourself whether to raise it. It's also hardly sensitive or consequential to ask random questions about clerking.


What firms? Seriously, this is *really* useful information to have....both for rising 3Ls and rising 2Ls heading into OCIP.

Stanislaw Carter
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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby Stanislaw Carter » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:28 pm

How hard is it to find firm work again? Having been an SA once and getting an Article 3 clerkship should make the job search a bit easier, no?


I don't know enough to say anything for sure, but I'd imagine someone clerking at a prestigious district or circuit would have plenty of options.

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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby Stanislaw Carter » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:28 pm

IzziesGal wrote:
Stanislaw Carter wrote:

Not necessarily. I meant that more in the sense that I know firms that have given summer associates who were going to clerk (and made clear this intention) offers, but later informed them that they weren't welcome back. Others simply revoked the bonus.

Either way, I think Georgiana is right here. When you get a sense of the culture of your firm over the summer, you should decide for yourself whether to raise it. It's also hardly sensitive or consequential to ask random questions about clerking.


What firms? Seriously, this is *really* useful information to have....both for rising 3Ls and rising 2Ls heading into OCIP.


I'm not going to say. There might have been some article on abovethelaw about it, though. And I'm sure some firms were eventually outed in the comments.

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Georgiana
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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby Georgiana » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:what about time sensitive questions, like for judges who hire off plan? there are a bunch of COA judges who interview super early. would you recommend emailing your firm in this situation?

No alumni at the firm, otherwise I'd try that angle. Sigh.

If you really need to know *now* I'd call the recruiting people (not the attorneys/partners) and have this conversation:
You: Hi, I'm an incoming summer and wanted to know what the policy was for clerkships since I'm considering applying
Them: Oh that's great, [babble babble babble], did you have specific questions
You: Well I wanted to know your offer policy for summers who decide to clerk and whether the firm still offers a clerkship bonus
Them: Oh, okay, well we [info about offers] and as far as the bonus goes [x, y, z]

If it goes right (aka they're informed about the policy), you won't even need to tell them your name and it can't really impact you. If they aren't they'll have to call you back/email you, but you've only said you're considering applying, not that you are applying/have one already so they can't hold it against you.

I think you're probably overthinking it, firms still encourage clerkships, especially for people working in their litigation groups... and there are still clerkship bonuses being handed out.

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IzziesGal
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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby IzziesGal » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:48 pm

Do firms typically still cover bar prep course / bar exam costs if you clerk?

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Georgiana
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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby Georgiana » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:50 pm

IzziesGal wrote:Do firms typically still cover bar prep course / bar exam costs if you clerk?

In my admittedly limited experience, yes. But if you don't end up going back to the firm you have to pay them back.

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vamedic03
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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby vamedic03 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:01 pm

...
Last edited by vamedic03 on Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Stanislaw Carter
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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby Stanislaw Carter » Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:07 pm

vamedic03 wrote:
Stanislaw Carter wrote:
If they liked clerks before, they still like them now, so don't worry.


That's an iffy proposition for many firms ITE.


I think this is fear mongering.



http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/clerks-c ... prospects/

Comments were deleted because of the transition to discuss, but you get the picture.

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vamedic03
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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby vamedic03 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:24 pm

...
Last edited by vamedic03 on Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Stanislaw Carter
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Re: Firm offers and Clerkships

Postby Stanislaw Carter » Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:26 pm

vamedic03 wrote:Dude, you're citing Latham & Watkins in the middle of the Lathaming.


Way to read the article.

(a) It actually isn't about Latham (though it mentions Latham as a possibility).

(b) It references a DC firm: Wiley Rein.

(c) Back when the comments thread was there, many other firms were referenced.

But great job, though.




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