Golf?!

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
User avatar
Cade McNown
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:54 pm

Re: Golf?!

Postby Cade McNown » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:13 pm

UCLAtransfer wrote:Great points about golf in general, but I think your post outs you as having no idea what a SA event entails. (0L, 1L?) SA events are 0% about whatever it is you are actually doing (golf, cooking, attending sporting event, etc.), and 100% about showing your face, getting to know other attorneys, and being a team player. Can't tell how much of this (if any) is a flame, but any of your suggestions such as doing something else (spa), renting a cart and trying to caddy, etc., will be MUCH more harmful than simply being terrible at a SA golf event.

OP- read up on golf rules and etiquette, try and go hit a bucket of balls at least once or twice so you can figure out the basics of the swing, and at the event be professional, courteous, and up front about your lack of any skills, and enthusiastic in giving it a try and taking advice from others.


0L here, and appropriately outed. But believe me, I understand the purpose of these events. I understand that the purpose is 0% golf and 100% networking/social/team building. My point (and sorry if I failed to make this clear) is that playing golf wholly unprepared, and 2 weeks of prep = wholly unprepared, will foil the purposes of the event for OP. OP will be so utterly useless that he/she will lose the opportunity to network with the rest of the firm.

The spa comment was a bit in jest, but I really think that caddying is a FAR better option. Being a cart caddie will protect OP from several mistakes and still allow for interaction with other associates, partners...whoever is available and important.

User avatar
beachbum
Posts: 2766
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:35 pm

Re: Golf?!

Postby beachbum » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:16 pm

I started playing golf for the networking opportunities, but stayed for the porn stars and adderall.

User avatar
Cade McNown
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:54 pm

Re: Golf?!

Postby Cade McNown » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:17 pm

Capitol A wrote:
Cade McNown wrote:4. Re: "Most of the people he's playing with will be equally bad". This is wrong. We are talking about a pure beginner, someone who has never touched a club before. Some one who doesn't know a putter from a wedge from a 6-iron. This sort of person has no business playing golf. You have to learn the game and practice its skills before you ever attempt to play a round. The preparation required for this would take much more time than OP has. But you're suggesting that it's ok to be unprepared so long as OP's peers are too. Again, wrong. I'm not discouraging anyone from taking up golf, but a corporate outing anywhere other than on the range with a pro is a wildly inappropriate starting point.

corrected.
And you're right, the fact that there will be hundreds of other people making fools of themselves does not make it okay to join in.


hmmm, can't tell if mocking me or agreeing with me. Soooo, thanks??

User avatar
prezidentv8
Posts: 2821
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:33 am

Re: Golf?!

Postby prezidentv8 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:29 pm

I dunno, I tend to think that not participating or participating and/or trying to be all srs bsns would call more negative attention to someone than just playing and socializing like a normal human being. Basic golf etiquette is not that hard to figure out, and if you're worried about slowing people down on a given hole, just pick up your ball. I mean, I've seen some egregiously bad beginners playing golf and was around the game for a while, and as long as people are aware of their skill level and have some common sense, there's rarely an issue.

Edit: Also, the caddying idea isn't bad if the OP is self-conscious about ability/knowledge of the game/general athleticism. Just ask to caddy in an appropriate way and don't be a goober out there.
Last edited by prezidentv8 on Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Stanislaw Carter
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:07 pm

Re: Golf?!

Postby Stanislaw Carter » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:31 pm

There is absolutely no reason to "prepare" for a summer firm social event. Well, you should probably bulk up on your alcohol tolerance, but seriously that's about it. I think even going to Oshman's and doing some put-put is excessive.

User avatar
Big Shrimpin
Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Golf?!

Postby Big Shrimpin » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:33 pm

Stanislaw Carter wrote:Well, you should probably bulk up on your alcohol tolerance, but seriously that's about it.


Just finished exams. Working on this now...well, when I'm not sleeping or eating.

Capitol A
Posts: 757
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:23 pm

Re: Golf?!

Postby Capitol A » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:37 pm

Cade McNown wrote:
Capitol A wrote:
Cade McNown wrote:4. Re: "Most of the people he's playing with will be equally bad". This is wrong. We are talking about a pure beginner, someone who has never touched a club before. Some one who doesn't know a putter from a wedge from a 6-iron. This sort of person has no business playing golf. You have to learn the game and practice its skills before you ever attempt to play a round. The preparation required for this would take much more time than OP has. But you're suggesting that it's ok to be unprepared so long as OP's peers are too. Again, wrong. I'm not discouraging anyone from taking up golf, but a corporate outing anywhere other than on the range with a pro is a wildly inappropriate starting point.

corrected.
And you're right, the fact that there will be hundreds of other people making fools of themselves does not make it okay to join in.


hmmm, can't tell if mocking me or agreeing with me. Soooo, thanks??

Sorry. Completely agreeing. Golf is ridiculously hard. It's not like say, bowling where you and I can go to the bowling alley together and you can throw a 290 i can be lucky to get 23 and we can still both have a good time. When you suck at golf to the point that you are struggling to even get around the course it is painfully obvious to everyone, most especially yourself. In fact, golf is one of a very small handful of sports where the entire game stops and watches you succeed or fail and then has to walk up and stand around watching you do it again. Without the right mindset going into it, this could be so uncomfortable that all networking opportunities are out the window.
I am a 0L, but I wasn't really commenting on whether or not OP should participate. Of course (s)he should. Look the part, and go into with the mindset that you are not there for the golf. Don't even try to be good or pretend that you know or care anything about golf. Follow normal etiqutte, and tell the people you are grouped with that you have never played before. Hit your tee shot on every hole, but do not struggle around the course and make take a super long time for everyone else. Once it's clear you will not be breaking 9 or 10 on a given hole, pick your ball up (if you can find it-speaking of which, bring a TON of balls so you dont have to spend a bunch of time searching for lost ones) and move it onto the green or near the green next to someone elses and finish from there. That way you are "playing" and hanging out, but you aren't ruining the day for the handful of douches who want to take this opportunity to show everyone that they are the next Bobby Jones.

User avatar
Cade McNown
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:54 pm

Re: Golf?!

Postby Cade McNown » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:37 pm

Stanislaw Carter wrote:There is absolutely no reason to "prepare" for a summer firm social event. Well, you should probably bulk up on your alcohol tolerance, but seriously that's about it. I think even going to Oshman's and doing some put-put is excessive.


Reading comp fail, please revisit. You must prepare before you ever play a round of golf. It does not matter what that round of golf is for, be it a summer firm social event, round with your grandpa, or challenging Michelle Wie to a 9-hole match for fellatio...)

Capitol A
Posts: 757
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:23 pm

Re: Golf?!

Postby Capitol A » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:39 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:I dunno, I tend to think that not participating or participating and/or trying to be all srs bsns would call more negative attention to someone than just playing and socializing like a normal human being. Basic golf etiquette is not that hard to figure out, and if you're worried about slowing people down on a given hole, just pick up your ball. I mean, I've seen some egregiously bad beginners playing golf and was around the game for a while, and as long as people are aware of their skill level and have some common sense, there's rarely an issue.

Edit: Also, the caddying idea isn't bad if the OP is self-conscious about ability/knowledge of the game/general athleticism. Just ask to caddy in an appropriate way and don't be a goober out there.

Not challenging you, seriously asking....Don't you think caddying would be worse than playing terribly? There aren't going to be other SAs caddying. You will be forced to answer the question: "why aren't you playing?" like a million times.

Capitol A
Posts: 757
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:23 pm

Re: Golf?!

Postby Capitol A » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:40 pm

Cade McNown wrote:
Stanislaw Carter wrote:There is absolutely no reason to "prepare" for a summer firm social event. Well, you should probably bulk up on your alcohol tolerance, but seriously that's about it. I think even going to Oshman's and doing some put-put is excessive.


Reading comp fail, please revisit. You must prepare before you ever play a round of golf. It does not matter what that round of golf is for, be it a summer firm social event, round with your grandpa, or challenging Michelle Wie to a 9-hole match for fellatio...)

You're going to hell. :twisted:

Stanislaw Carter
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:07 pm

Re: Golf?!

Postby Stanislaw Carter » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:41 pm

Big Shrimpin wrote:
Stanislaw Carter wrote:Well, you should probably bulk up on your alcohol tolerance, but seriously that's about it.


Just finished exams. Working on this now...well, when I'm not sleeping or eating.



Good man. You are well on the path to becoming a successful summer associate.

User avatar
prezidentv8
Posts: 2821
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:33 am

Re: Golf?!

Postby prezidentv8 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:42 pm

Capitol A wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:I dunno, I tend to think that not participating or participating and/or trying to be all srs bsns would call more negative attention to someone than just playing and socializing like a normal human being. Basic golf etiquette is not that hard to figure out, and if you're worried about slowing people down on a given hole, just pick up your ball. I mean, I've seen some egregiously bad beginners playing golf and was around the game for a while, and as long as people are aware of their skill level and have some common sense, there's rarely an issue.

Edit: Also, the caddying idea isn't bad if the OP is self-conscious about ability/knowledge of the game/general athleticism. Just ask to caddy in an appropriate way and don't be a goober out there.

Not challenging you, seriously asking....Don't you think caddying would be worse than playing terribly? There aren't going to be other SAs caddying. You will be forced to answer the question: "why aren't you playing?" like a million times.


Yeah I think it would be worse, generally, but if you're actually so uncomfortable as to question whether you should actually participate, you might be happier/more at ease/more socially normal doing that instead. Point being - OP should just go have fun.

Stanislaw Carter
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:07 pm

Re: Golf?!

Postby Stanislaw Carter » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:42 pm

Capitol A wrote:
Cade McNown wrote:
Stanislaw Carter wrote:There is absolutely no reason to "prepare" for a summer firm social event. Well, you should probably bulk up on your alcohol tolerance, but seriously that's about it. I think even going to Oshman's and doing some put-put is excessive.


Reading comp fail, please revisit. You must prepare before you ever play a round of golf. It does not matter what that round of golf is for, be it a summer firm social event, round with your grandpa, or challenging Michelle Wie to a 9-hole match for fellatio...)

You're going to hell. :twisted:


He's also not going to get a job, unless it's replacing Andy at Dunder Mifflin (now Sabre).

User avatar
Cade McNown
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:54 pm

Re: Golf?!

Postby Cade McNown » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:44 pm

Capitol A wrote:You will be forced to answer the question: "why aren't you playing?" like a million times.


To which OP answers: because I'm cognizant of my surroundings and respectful of others. Then under breath: Plus I want to let you impress the boss with that clutch quintuple bogey putt

User avatar
rocon7383
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Golf?!

Postby rocon7383 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:45 pm

we talkin bout PRACTICE.

User avatar
Cade McNown
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:54 pm

Re: Golf?!

Postby Cade McNown » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:46 pm

Stanislaw Carter wrote:He's also not going to get a job, unless it's replacing Andy at Dunder Mifflin (now Sabre).


:roll: Right, because firms by rule do not hire golf realists.

Edit: sorry to create shitstorm OP. You probably have responses here to help make a decision. If you indeed decide to participate in the event I'd still be happy to help you avoid egregious mistakes. PM if you like.
Last edited by Cade McNown on Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Big Shrimpin
Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Golf?!

Postby Big Shrimpin » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:48 pm

To derail for a second, wtf is wrong with people, as evidence by the recent rash of "omg how do i socialize/interact with other people/do certain activities" threads?

OP, if you don't know how to play, nor do you feel comfortable playing, then don't play. Go to the event, drive the cart, tell a few jokes, and try not to fart within earshot. Christ.

User avatar
prezidentv8
Posts: 2821
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:33 am

Re: Golf?!

Postby prezidentv8 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:49 pm

Big Shrimpin wrote:To derail for a second, wtf is wrong with people, as evidence by the recent rash of "omg how do i socialize/interact with other people/do certain activities" threads?


Yes, this has been confusing.

User avatar
nygrrrl
Posts: 4948
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:01 am

Re: Golf?!

Postby nygrrrl » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:50 pm

Cade McNown wrote:0L here, and appropriately outed. But believe me, I understand the purpose of these events. I understand that the purpose is 0% golf and 100% networking/social/team building. My point (and sorry if I failed to make this clear) is that playing golf wholly unprepared, and 2 weeks of prep = wholly unprepared, will foil the purposes of the event for OP. OP will be so utterly useless that he/she will lose the opportunity to network with the rest of the firm.

The spa comment was a bit in jest, but I really think that caddying is a FAR better option. Being a cart caddie will protect OP from several mistakes and still allow for interaction with other associates, partners...whoever is available and important.

OK, obviously the OP wasn't going to play the course but your lack of understanding about these events is now leading you to give very poor advice. Cart caddying? At an SA event? Especially if OP is a woman? *face palm* No.

OP - go to the event. Have no fear - there will be other people there who do not golf. Plan not to golf. Have fun.

zephyr36
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:49 am

Re: Golf?!

Postby zephyr36 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:50 pm

Cade McNown wrote:I was an All-American golfer in college.

If you have never played golf before, please do yourself a favor and do not participate in this event. Your inexperience will show, and it will be embarrassing to you and the attorneys/partners in your firm. As soon as you say "spikey shoes" instead of spikes and "little peggy things" instead of tees, you will have tipped everyone off that you have no clue where you are or what you're doing. This, of course, reflects poorly on you. Golf involves a slew of physical and social abilities that take years to develop and that you will be completely unconscious of. As someone who has played golf for 17 years, I can't tell you how frustrating it is to have unlearned beginners tag along. Despite good intentions, you will get in the way. Golf rounds usually consume 4 1/2 hours (closer to 5 1/2 playing with obnoxious peacocking lawyers probably), and to a seasoned golfer you will probably make a rookie mistake every 1-2 minutes. Yes the golf outing will be about networking and 'fun', but there is an underlying assumption that you're overlooking. That assumption is that you actually play golf.

The barrier of entry to golf is high, higher than every other sport, and I'm the first to admit this is unfair. One big caveat you can take solace in is that, even if they've played golf before, many of the attorneys in your firm will be equally clueless on a golf course as you. They will be loud, their cell phones will ring, they will interfere with other golfers at the course not a part of your outing, they will be hackers (hacker = terribly unskilled golfers that may not belong on a golf course), and they will break the 34 rules of golf, and they will neglect hundreds of rules of etiquette without the slightest clue. Main Point: Let others make these mistakes, do not make them yourself.

Presumably this is not just a golf outing. For one, golf is typically not a women's sport (unless your firm is largely South Korean), and so there's probably some alternate activity you can choose besides golf (spa day maybe... :P ). If this is the case, kindly explain that you have never set foot on a golf course, and while you'd like to join it's better for everyone if you choose the alternate activity. This will show tact on your part, and the real golfers of the bunch (i.e. the Partners who have played golf forever) will notice and appreciate you for this.

Conversely, if there is no alternate activity, go to the golf course but do not play. Rent a golf cart and caddie for someone who is playing. This will give you an opportunity to learn a bit about golf through observation and question/answer. Furthermore you can enjoy the 'walk/ride in a park' and schmooze with the attorneys in your foursome. If you go this route, you will still inevitably violate some rules of etiquette, but not nearly as many as you would if you play. Also, if you decide to go to the course, please PM me and I will be happy to give you a rough template to follow for the day (what to wear, when to show up, what to do before the round starts, how to act on the course, the biggest rules to be aware of, what questions to ask...etc.)

I hope this hasn't been too negative, but I think the advice others have given you here is very poor. The golf course is a unique place that requires special attention. If it were just a walk in the park, you would go to a park. If it were really just for fun, you would do something more fun (golf is too frustrating to be truly fun, even for those who love challenges). Golf, even in a corporate setting, is highly complex, and as you approach it you must apprehend this fact. Best of luck.



OP, I have been golfing for 10+ years, and I can tell you that this poster needs to get his nose out of the air. Yes, golf has etiquette rules that you will be expected to follow, but you should get all of the important stuff by just reading up on it a bit. You can definitely wear clean tennis shoes in lieu of golf shoes (which I would recommend until you're playing golf a little more seriously). It's not at all frustrating to have a beginner tag along for a casual game unless you're a huge douche. If anything, the more experienced players will likely be happy to provide tips on a game that they themselves enjoy playing.

If you have time, you should go to the nearest public golf course (cheaper) and see if you can get a little bit of instruction. If you go on a driving range and start hacking at the ball, you will probably never develop a good swing.

Start by playing, and if you feel like you're significantly worse than your group and that you're slowing things down offer to just play off where everyone else hit (pick up your ball and move it to where the others have landed theirs). You obviously shouldn't be worried about your score, so who cares.

Don't freak out. You may not be the first picked to play with an client, but your offer will definitely not hinder on whether you can hit a golf ball.

User avatar
skw
Posts: 220
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:12 pm

Re: Golf?!

Postby skw » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:50 pm

I am also a 0L, but I have been out of school in the corporate world for 12 years. I have participated in several of these types of 'golf socials' for different jobs and charity functions. I do not play golf, but I am familiar with the rules, as anyone can become familiar with them by doing a basic Google search. Golf etiquette is not rocket science and it does not take 17 years or much more than common sense to attend a golf outing and not make an ass of yourself. Many of my colleagues on these outings did not play golf, yet we all managed not to embarrass ourselves, our company, or our executive management, and check this out -- we actually had a good time, as did our colleagues who were excellent golfers (though they must have had more accommodating attitudes than Cam....). There is NO WAY the firm the original poster will be working for expects that every SA can play golf. As I said previously, they are hosting this event FOR FUN and to see how the SAs participate and engage in the mandatory firm sponsored event.

To suggest that the poster skip the event is terrible advice, and Cam's elitist, snotty post about how fantastic he is at golf and how no one who hasn't played for 17 years has any business on a golf course outs him not only as a 0L, but as a clueless snob who I suspect has no real world experience in business. I would agree with some of Cam's positions about golf if we were talking about the original poster agreeing to play in a foursome with a partner and important clients. In that scenario, you need to know how to play. In this situation, it is highly unlikely that they will be playing a standard round of golf, and it will probably be Captain's Choice or some variation where it will not matter one little bit if the poster is terrible at the sport.

Again, go into this with a good attitude and it will be 100% fine. If someone tells you otherwise, find out what he's basing his advice on. Sheesh. Of all the things to worry about during law school and getting a job post-grad, attending a golf outing should not make the list. Please go enjoy the experience and don't worry about it. If you simply must worry about something, try worrying about passing the bar or polishing an assignment for a partner, or something useful :)

User avatar
fastforward
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:31 pm

Re: Golf?!

Postby fastforward » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:56 pm

A famous quote is, "Golf and sex are the only two things you dont have to be good at to enjoy." I forget who said it.

This thread is full of good advice, although I must say I disagree with Mr. All-American. Closer to reality is the poster who said you will have two groups. You and Mr. AA would not be in the same group. :D You might want to mention you're a beginner whenever the subject comes up and heed the feedback about your participating. No doubt they'll make clear you are welcome.

Here is the best-ever guide to all things golf, available on Amazon for around fifteen bucks. It's guaranteed to de-mystify the entire golf culture and is chock-full of tips to improve your game. And it does all this with humor!

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=KISS+Golf+Duno&x=14&y=17
Invest in a couple of lessons from a pro and hit a few buckets of range balls. Practice putting.

Golf often is a part of law firm culture, and bar associations always seem to make golf tournaments a part of their events, so it's wise to get yourself acquainted with the game. As this is billed as a social event, you are bound to find others like you. If you find yourself holding up even the rookie group, cheerfully offer to caddy for the rest of the round. Just don't take yourself too seriously, and you're bound to have a wonderful time at the outing.

Edit to try to fix link
Last edited by fastforward on Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
rocon7383
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Golf?!

Postby rocon7383 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:00 pm

Big Shrimpin wrote:To derail for a second, wtf is wrong with people, as evidence by the recent rash of "omg how do i socialize/interact with other people/do certain activities" threads?

OP, if you don't know how to play, nor do you feel comfortable playing, then don't play. Go to the event, drive the cart, tell a few jokes, and try not to fart within earshot. Christ.



In a way, I'm kind of excited about it. I feel like if I was ever given the opportunity to get a great SA I'd be at a huge advantage being a normal human being who can speak complete sentences to other human beings. This appears to be a rarity and a way to differentiate oneself.

User avatar
Cade McNown
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:54 pm

Re: Golf?!

Postby Cade McNown » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:01 pm

zephyr and skw: Dumbledore alternate IDs??

Feel free to think of me as a snob. I think my points are very fair, and my golf knowledge is more reliable than anyone else posting here. Since the fact that I'm a 0L seems relevant to people here, I have one question for OP: When it comes to golf, would you rather take advice from a Golf 0L or a Golf Partner?

edit: for own RC fail.

/involvementITT

User avatar
Big Shrimpin
Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Golf?!

Postby Big Shrimpin » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:08 pm

rocon7383 wrote:. . . being a normal human being who can speak complete sentences to other human beings. This appears to be a rarity and a way to differentiate oneself.



Yeah, you'd think so, based upon recent threads.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.