Getting biglaw outside of OCI

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zomginternets
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Getting biglaw outside of OCI

Postby zomginternets » Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:39 pm

What are the chances of landing a callback interview if you apply to biglaw firms at the beginning of your 2L year that don't do OCI at your current law school? Are you just presumed to suck too much by going to that school (and thus they throw away your resume/app), or would they actually give your app a look over?

(obviously I'm assuming you need to be at least top 5% for any sort of chance)

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Julio_El_Chavo
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Re: Getting biglaw outside of OCI

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:42 pm

Image

jarofsoup
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Re: Getting biglaw outside of OCI

Postby jarofsoup » Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:46 pm

You can get big law if you do not land big law during law school through a lateral move. But at this point you would have to be a proven attorney and ask yourself is it really worth it?

I know this because of LinkedIn....

zomginternets
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Re: Getting biglaw outside of OCI

Postby zomginternets » Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:51 pm

jarofsoup wrote:You can get big law if you do not land big law during law school through a lateral move. But at this point you would have to be a proven attorney and ask yourself is it really worth it?


I was just inquiring about getting a biglaw 2L summer SA offer outside of OCI, not a lateral move to biglaw as an experienced litigator.

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: Getting biglaw outside of OCI

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:25 pm

zomginternets wrote:What are the chances of landing a callback interview if you apply to biglaw firms at the beginning of your 2L year that don't do OCI at your current law school? Are you just presumed to suck too much by going to that school (and thus they throw away your resume/app), or would they actually give your app a look over?

(obviously I'm assuming you need to be at least top 5% for any sort of chance)

Top 5% at a T14? Probably pretty good.

Top 5% at at T4? Probably pretty low.



Hint: More specifics would be helpful.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: Getting biglaw outside of OCI

Postby Stanford4Me » Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:27 pm

You need to be more specific.

There are Texas firms who don't come to NYU because there isn't a big enough Texas crowd to warrant spending all the money to come here for OCI (it's real expensive to do OCI with a school). I'm going to be applying to plenty of those firms at the end of the summer and I'm not at all worried about my chances. If you're at a school like Cooley and are wondering why a firm isn't coming to your OCI (do they even have one?) then yeah, I'd be concerned about your chances.

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patrickd139
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Re: Getting biglaw outside of OCI

Postby patrickd139 » Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:28 pm

FlightoftheEarls wrote:
zomginternets wrote:What are the chances of landing a callback interview if you apply to biglaw firms at the beginning of your 2L year that don't do OCI at your current law school? Are you just presumed to suck too much by going to that school (and thus they throw away your resume/app), or would they actually give your app a look over?

(obviously I'm assuming you need to be at least top 5% for any sort of chance)

Top 5% at a T14? Probably pretty good.

Top 5% at at T4? Probably pretty low.



Hint: More specifics would be helpful.

This. Also, the only three people from my T2 who landed biglaw did so outside the confines of OCI. Now admittedly, our CSO might be one of the worst run on the planet.

zomginternets
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Re: Getting biglaw outside of OCI

Postby zomginternets » Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:34 pm

Sorry, more specifics:

Assume one is at a T3 or even a low-ranked T2, and assume that the school and the recruiting office in question are within the same state or same city.

Basically, I'm asking about firms that presumably don't recruit from school X (say, a T3) because it's lower ranked than schools W, Y and Z (say, all T1), all of which are in the same area. Can person in top 5% of school X realistically expect to get a call back interview if they just mail a resume/transcript/writing sample to the firm, or are you just auto-locked out by the fact that you go to school X?

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98234872348
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Re: Getting biglaw outside of OCI

Postby 98234872348 » Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:40 pm

.
Last edited by 98234872348 on Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: Getting biglaw outside of OCI

Postby Stanford4Me » Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:45 pm

mistergoft wrote:
zomginternets wrote:Sorry, more specifics:

Assume one is at a T3 or even a low-ranked T2, and assume that the school and the recruiting office in question are within the same state or same city.

Basically, I'm asking about firms that presumably don't recruit from school X (say, a T3) because it's lower ranked than schools W, Y and Z (say, all T1), all of which are in the same area. Can person in top 5% of school X realistically expect to get a call back interview if they just mail a resume/transcript/writing sample to the firm, or are you just auto-locked out by the fact that you go to school X?

Realistically expect, no. Is it possible, yes. You aren't going to be auto locked out (I am assuming you're actually top 5% at a T3 and not just some 0L speculating), but it's going to be an uphill battle. Start getting a mail merge together now, send out a ton of applications and there's a chance (albeit, not a great one) that you'll land something.

+1

You're going to have to be very aggressive. Have you had the opportunity to do any networking during your first year? See of you can talk with your OCS/CSO about students who may have had luck with firms, or see if they can put you in contact with anyone at firm.

zomginternets
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Re: Getting biglaw outside of OCI

Postby zomginternets » Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:50 pm

Interesting, I thought networking didn't help at all when trying to get biglaw? Regardless, I have a professor that used to worked at a biglaw firm, and I know several 2nd year associates currently at biglaw firms. Are these good enough/the type of contacts needed to help me in this situation?

Edit: would recommendations/phone calls from attorneys/professors help?

(I'll ask my CSO, but they seem to try to temper the expectations of those who want to go into biglaw, so I'm assuming they don't have much success)

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98234872348
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Re: Getting biglaw outside of OCI

Postby 98234872348 » Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:56 pm

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Last edited by 98234872348 on Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

sarryn
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Re: Getting biglaw outside of OCI

Postby sarryn » Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:05 pm

I don't meant to hijack this thread, but I have a question. I'm going to be transferring soon, and assuming I strike out at OCI, is it worth it to send resumes out? Anyone have advice on how transfer students should approach situations like this?

Thanks,

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98234872348
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Re: Getting biglaw outside of OCI

Postby 98234872348 » Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:28 pm

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Last edited by 98234872348 on Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: Getting biglaw outside of OCI

Postby Stanford4Me » Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:42 pm

zomginternets wrote:Interesting, I thought networking didn't help at all when trying to get biglaw? Regardless, I have a professor that used to worked at a biglaw firm, and I know several 2nd year associates currently at biglaw firms. Are these good enough/the type of contacts needed to help me in this situation?

Edit: would recommendations/phone calls from attorneys/professors help?

(I'll ask my CSO, but they seem to try to temper the expectations of those who want to go into biglaw, so I'm assuming they don't have much success)

I would take advantage of any and all connections you have. While second year associates don't have much pull with the hiring committee, it definitely helps if you speak with them and (if you get an interview) mention them in the interview. It shows that you care and are knowledgeable about the firm. I received an offer from a firm and I attribute it to a connection with an associate (albeit an 8th year) at the firm.

If you can get professors/attorneys to forward your resume that would help as well. Getting them to back you and speak highly of you goes a long ways, I think.

vb007
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Re: Getting biglaw outside of OCI

Postby vb007 » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:48 pm

zomginternets wrote:Interesting, I thought networking didn't help at all when trying to get biglaw? Regardless, I have a professor that used to worked at a biglaw firm, and I know several 2nd year associates currently at biglaw firms. Are these good enough/the type of contacts needed to help me in this situation?

Edit: would recommendations/phone calls from attorneys/professors help?

(I'll ask my CSO, but they seem to try to temper the expectations of those who want to go into biglaw, so I'm assuming they don't have much success)


i got a big law job this month (april) because of a prof's recommendation and a technical background relevant to the firm. it is definitely possible. i'm a 2L at a t50 school.

2LLLL
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Re: Getting biglaw outside of OCI

Postby 2LLLL » Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:30 am

If your class rank is high enough, then some firms will at least consider you. And by consider I mean give you a screener and/or a callback. You need to blow your interviews away. Which firms? Who know.. apply widely, maximize your chances.


Skadden's hiring partner is on the record as saying that they will consider top 5% from anywhere...

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Re: Getting biglaw outside of OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:35 pm

I was top 1% at a T4 and got a Biglaw SA this summer in Chicago. My school doesn't have OCI, so I only did a mass mailing campaign. It can be done. But you gotta blow away the interview(s) if you get any.

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vamedic03
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Re: Getting biglaw outside of OCI

Postby vamedic03 » Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:52 pm

2LLLL wrote:If your class rank is high enough, then some firms will at least consider you. And by consider I mean give you a screener and/or a callback. You need to blow your interviews away. Which firms? Who know.. apply widely, maximize your chances.


Skadden's hiring partner is on the record as saying that they will consider top 5% from anywhere...


Though, a Skadden hiring partner was also on the record saying that they don't have a Trusts & Estates practice.

zomginternets
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Re: Getting biglaw outside of OCI

Postby zomginternets » Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I was top 1% at a T4 and got a Biglaw SA this summer in Chicago. My school doesn't have OCI, so I only did a mass mailing campaign. It can be done. But you gotta blow away the interview(s) if you get any.


Congrats! That's quite a feat.

How do you "blow away" the interview? I come across in an interview as rather shy and timid (or so I've been told). I can work on that, but do you think something more is needed other than just seeming personable and intelligent?

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Stanford4Me
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Re: Getting biglaw outside of OCI

Postby Stanford4Me » Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:30 pm

zomginternets wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I was top 1% at a T4 and got a Biglaw SA this summer in Chicago. My school doesn't have OCI, so I only did a mass mailing campaign. It can be done. But you gotta blow away the interview(s) if you get any.


Congrats! That's quite a feat.

How do you "blow away" the interview? I come across in an interview as rather shy and timid (or so I've been told). I can work on that, but do you think something more is needed other than just seeming personable and intelligent?

It's finding the perfect balance between exuding confidence and not being an arrogant prick. Lawyers (from what I have been told and from the information I've read) don't want to hire timid people, but they also don't want to hire pricks who would be a pain to work with. If you get a callback, the main thing they're looking for is the ability for you to hold a conversation, they want to see if they would like working 10+ hour days with you. Have you read Guerrilla Tactics For Getting The Legal Job Of Your Dreams? It's an amazing book and has a very good section on interviewing, including tips for students who go to "not Yale" (i.e. T2-T4 schools). I have it and definitely think it was worth it.

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Re: Getting biglaw outside of OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:13 pm

Stanford4Me wrote:
zomginternets wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I was top 1% at a T4 and got a Biglaw SA this summer in Chicago. My school doesn't have OCI, so I only did a mass mailing campaign. It can be done. But you gotta blow away the interview(s) if you get any.


Congrats! That's quite a feat.

How do you "blow away" the interview? I come across in an interview as rather shy and timid (or so I've been told). I can work on that, but do you think something more is needed other than just seeming personable and intelligent?

It's finding the perfect balance between exuding confidence and not being an arrogant prick. Lawyers (from what I have been told and from the information I've read) don't want to hire timid people, but they also don't want to hire pricks who would be a pain to work with. If you get a callback, the main thing they're looking for is the ability for you to hold a conversation, they want to see if they would like working 10+ hour days with you. Have you read Guerrilla Tactics For Getting The Legal Job Of Your Dreams? It's an amazing book and has a very good section on interviewing, including tips for students who go to "not Yale" (i.e. T2-T4 schools). I have it and definitely think it was worth it.



+1 Guerrilla Tactics.

I'm the T4 poster. I think the above pretty much summed up what I was saying. But also, if you are coming from a T3/T4, you had better have an amazing interview b/c you are already at a major disadvantage to others from T-14s who are also top 10%. So if you just have an average interview, they'd probably go w/ the other guy that had an average interview w/ the same grades but at a much better school.

Bottom line, you have to outperform others in the interview b/c most likely you are not outperforming them w/ your school/grades.

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Re: Getting biglaw outside of OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:29 pm

Secured SA position at V20, coming from T3 (Top 3%, L.R.). I did well in OCI but 2/3 offers came from outside/direct applications.

I contacted Alum/Past L.R. Staff Members by email notifying them I applied (this approach yielded surprisingly positive results). That being said, I was lucky and had to nail the few interviews I received.

I think the common theme here is that it can be done, but it is an uphill battle. My advice would be to start early, make sure you have all your material ready to go at the drop of a hat, and target firms with Alum (my emails were very general "how did you get from school X to firm Y and any advice for someone looking to make a similar transition?" With an attached resume).

Good luck!




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