Biglaw Associate Taking Questions Forum

[PKSebben]

1st year associate splitting between IP and lit. When should I attempt my master plan to lateral out of NYC to the greener pastures of smaller market biglaw?

Depends but 3r to 5th year is a common lateral time.

I can't stay here that long. Tell me what I want to hear, please.

Ok 2nd year is definitely doable. I can't imagine a lot of firms will want to take anyone earlier than that.

You have stopped me from loading bullets. Thanks, friend.

(it's really not this bad, I just don't like the city)

[PKSebben]

How long do you usually get to work on assignments/a motion? Does the partner really expect you to give him something within a couple hours? Is it really a time crunch?

I really can't answer that generally, motions come in a lot of different levels of complexity, a simple uncontested motion to extend time or something, sure a few hours is fine. A motion for summary judgment? A couple of weeks of work or more.

Yup. Although nobody at my firm really gets the whole doc on an big filing -- we all get a piece of an outline to research and send up to our robot overlords.

[3rdYrLitigator]

When you say you can't believe you interviewed a lot of crappy students, what made these interviewees so bad? And any good tips about interviewing? Thanks a lot for answering questions!

It's hard to say what makes them crappy. I can tell within about 2 minutes when it's going to be a terrible interview. I asked an interviewee what they did in their spare time and his answer was "nothing." If you can't answer a question like that, you're in trouble. You have to be able to keep up a general conversation, talk about your career goals, and why you're interested in the law/law firm and you'll be fine.

Is there anything an interviewee can do or say during an interview that leaves an especially good impression?
Is there anything an interviewee can do that will cause an automatic ding?

There isn't a single thing that an interviewee can do or say, but having confidence a big plus. Of the 20 or 30 I did, there were about 3 where the partner I was interviewing with and I didn't even have to talk about the candidate it was just a "yes." They had the grades, but so did a lot of the students. What set those 3 apart was confidence, enthusiasm, and being able to speak intelligently about whatever we asked them (not legal questions, just general questions).

There are absolutely things that an interviewee can do that will cause an automatic ding, one told a really inappropriate joke and there was no way that guy was getting a callback. Things like that. Also, dress appropriately (that's mostly a tip to the women).

[PKSebben]

Better to work from one partner with a bunch of juice or get work from varied sources?

[3rdYrLitigator]

You have stopped me from loading bullets. Thanks, friend.

(it's really not this bad, I just don't like the city)

I've known 1st years who have lateraled, but I'd try to stick it out for 2. If you have solid, or can make up solid, reasons for wanting to move, that may also help a lot. You just don't want to look like a flight risk.

[3rdYrLitigator]

Better to work from one partner with a bunch of juice or get work from varied sources?

If your goal is partnership, varied. Everyone I've talked to says it's the same thing at their firm, when the partnership vote comes in, you want as many people behind you as possible, not just one guy, even if it's an important partner.

[3rdYrLitigator]

How long do you usually get to work on assignments/a motion? Does the partner really expect you to give him something within a couple hours? Is it really a time crunch?

I really can't answer that generally, motions come in a lot of different levels of complexity, a simple uncontested motion to extend time or something, sure a few hours is fine. A motion for summary judgment? A couple of weeks of work or more.

Yup. Although nobody at my firm really gets the whole doc on an big filing -- we all get a piece of an outline to research and send up to our robot overlords.

Right, I'm not drafting entire MSJ's myself yet (and probably won't until I'm a senior associate), but I have done significant sections, which have taken that long to write.

[almightypush]

just wanted to say thanks, 3rdYr.

the information ITT is as helpful as any i've come across during my time on the site.

[Anonymous User]

Is there any sort of pre-LS work experience that would be viewed negatively by firms? I used to be a freelance designer, so I all of my jobs prior to my current one have lasted 3 months or less. I'll just hit the one year mark at my current job before I leave for school. Do you think firms are going to see me as a flighty and/or generally view my work experience in a negative light? If so, is there anything I can do to mitigate the damage?

Thank you so much for taking questions!

[3rdYrLitigator]

Is there any sort of pre-LS work experience that would be viewed negatively by firms? I used to be a freelance designer, so I all of my jobs prior to my current one have lasted 3 months or less. I'll just hit the one year mark at my current job before I leave for school. Do you think firms are going to see me as a flighty and/or generally view my work experience in a negative light? If so, is there anything I can do to mitigate the damage?

Thank you so much for taking questions!

I don't think pre-LS experience would be viewed negatively (aside from porn or something that would be embarrassing for a client to know about), but the job-hopping is more problematic. It will probably be something that comes up in an interview at some point. If you can explain that it was more like doing contract work, then I don't think it will be an issue, just have the explanation down for when it comes up.

[sanetruth]

Can you speak to the prevalence/opinion of JD/MBA's? A lot of people on this forum have said that firms don't like JD/MBA's because it can show a lack of commitment to law, and that an MBA is superfluous to even the most corporate of legal positions. How does your firm view JD/MBA's? How many of your contemporaries have done this, wish they had done this or wish they hadn't?

[cubswin]

At what point did you realize you wanted to pursue litigation and not transactional?

[pasteurizedmilk]

Anything you know now that you wish you knew as a 1L at the end of your first year?

Your relationships with your professors and classmates will be way more important to you a few years out than you may think.

How so?

[FiveSermon]

If you don't make partner do you think you will be driven out in 1-2 years? Or do you think they will let you stay on as a senior associate?

[Prize24]

Did you have any debt upon graduating from law school? If so, how much have you paid off? And how much have you been able to save? (Thanks!)

[3rdYrLitigator]

Can you speak to the prevalence/opinion of JD/MBA's? A lot of people on this forum have said that firms don't like JD/MBA's because it can show a lack of commitment to law, and that an MBA is superfluous to even the most corporate of legal positions. How does your firm view JD/MBA's? How many of your contemporaries have done this, wish they had done this or wish they hadn't?

I don't know of any JD/MBAs at my firm. I interviewed a couple, and I'll admit that I was a little dubious that they really wanted to practice law in the end. I don't know the overall feeling about them, but I know there are very few of them, if any, at the firm. I know of some people who did the dual degree, and I don't think a single one of them is practicing law.

[3rdYrLitigator]

At what point did you realize you wanted to pursue litigation and not transactional?

Pretty much from the start of law school.

[3rdYrLitigator]

If you don't make partner do you think you will be driven out in 1-2 years? Or do you think they will let you stay on as a senior associate?

At my firm, they'll keep you around until senior associate, then show you the door. That's assuming you do good work until then, otherwise you'll get shown the door much earlier.

[3rdYrLitigator]

Did you have any debt upon graduating from law school? If so, how much have you paid off? And how much have you been able to save? (Thanks!)

Yes. All of my private loans. A fair bit of savings, I live pretty simply and don't have a lot of expenses. I'd rather not say exactly how much, but if I got laid off tomorrow, I would be ok for a while.

[3rdYrLitigator]

Anything you know now that you wish you knew as a 1L at the end of your first year?

Your relationships with your professors and classmates will be way more important to you a few years out than you may think.

How so?

Your network of classmates and professors are where a lot of your opportunities can come from. I've had friends refer me for work (which I haven't yet been able to take due to conflicts issues) and of the people I know who have lateraled, those opportunities often come from classmates/professors. Things like that, that you may not be thinking of now, but if you're one of those people that go to class, leave, and doesn't get to know your fellow classmates/professors you may miss out down the road.

[bdubs]

Thanks for all of this. I haven't gone back to read your older thread yet, but how would you classify your firm within the hierarchy of firms? No need to out it if you don't want to, just wanted to get a sense of whether you felt your firm was typical or unique in the aspects you are discussing.

[FiveSermon]

Does your firm's rankings on the NLJ250 matter a lot for in house jobs?

[3rdYrLitigator]

Thanks for all of this. I haven't gone back to read your older thread yet, but how would you classify your firm within the hierarchy of firms? No need to out it if you don't want to, just wanted to get a sense of whether you felt your firm was typical or unique in the aspects you are discussing.

Well I'll say that it's pretty typical based on talking to friends at other Biglaw firms across the city/country. I'll narrow it down to V50 and leave it at that.

[3rdYrLitigator]

Does your firm's rankings on the NLJ250 matter a lot for in house jobs?

Your firm's institutional clients can matter a lot. Often, associates are leaving to go in-house at the firm's major clients. It's a natural progression. If you're looking for random in-house job X, then it probably doesn't matter so much outside of the finance industry. I don't have any direct experience, but I imagine a lot of those sought after in-house positions at financial companies will care more about what level of firm you were at than other industries, but that's just a guess on my part.

[newyorker88]

Has the economy effected URM hiring at your firm? If you don't mind, what's the approximate GPA cut off for URMs? Have you noticed a trend in how long URM associates stay? i.e. do they tend to leave earlier than most associates?