Market on the upswing?

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droges
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Market on the upswing?

Postby droges » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:18 pm

I know some poeple on here are pessimistic about the condition of the legal market, but it sounds like some people think summer hiring has returned to pre recession levels and the market has atleast troughed. This is obviously not true for all markets but I think certain regions like the conditions in the northeast are improving and will continue to improve as the recovery continues.

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Mce252
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby Mce252 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:21 pm

The recession was a myth. Anyone who says they had a hard time getting a job - even out of TTTT schools - just isn't working hard enough.

nigelfrost
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby nigelfrost » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:The recession was a myth. Anyone who says they had a hard time getting a job - even out of TTTT schools - just isn't working hard enough.


Whoops!

droges
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby droges » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:24 pm

Im not sure if that is truly the case. (Almost) anyone who is competent enough to go to law school and graduate can find a job flipping burgers or another job where they are unemployed. Based on pure statistical data it is easy to say that the legal market was impacted greatly

edit: under employed

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Mce252
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby Mce252 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:The recession was a myth. Anyone who says they had a hard time getting a job - even out of TTTT schools - just isn't working hard enough.



You're right. I've even met people that graduated from the University of Phoenix and had a job immediately at 60K to 80K. You'll be fine.

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Stonewall
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby Stonewall » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:33 pm

"everything is better. everything will be ok. jobs are plentiful. i don't have to study."

repeat/follow this every morning to make a high class rank for me that much easier

droges
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby droges » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:38 pm

@Stonewall: That was not at all the intended purpose of this post.

blsingindisguise
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby blsingindisguise » Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:40 pm

droges wrote:I know some poeple on here are pessimistic about the condition of the legal market, but it sounds like some people think summer hiring has returned to pre recession levels and the market has atleast troughed. This is obviously not true for all markets but I think certain regions like the conditions in the northeast are improving and will continue to improve as the recovery continues.


No. There's little upswing, and it's DEFINITELY not to "pre-recession levels."

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Hannibal
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby Hannibal » Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:42 pm

blsingindisguise wrote:
droges wrote:I know some poeple on here are pessimistic about the condition of the legal market, but it sounds like some people think summer hiring has returned to pre recession levels and the market has atleast troughed. This is obviously not true for all markets but I think certain regions like the conditions in the northeast are improving and will continue to improve as the recovery continues.


No. There's little upswing, and it's DEFINITELY not to "pre-recession levels."


Actually a few firms did announce that they returned to pre-recession levels for this past OCI. The problem is that it isn't for every firm so the total effect is a small upswing.

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Cavalier
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby Cavalier » Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:51 pm

Things do seem to be improving, but legal hiring is not (and may not ever be) at "pre recession levels."

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dood
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby dood » Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:52 pm

NY to 190K

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby Big Shrimpin » Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:00 pm

dood wrote:NY to 190K


pls pls pls pls...

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Stanford4Me
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby Stanford4Me » Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:17 pm

Lawl.

Stanislaw Carter
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby Stanislaw Carter » Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:27 pm

For Tier 1 firms, the market is booming. For Tier 2 firms, the market is tougher because clients are demanding lower rates. For Tier 3 firms, the situation is even worse.

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lisjjen
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby lisjjen » Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:15 am

Anonymous User wrote:For Tier 1 firms, the market is booming. For Tier 2 firms, the market is tougher because clients are demanding lower rates. For Tier 3 firms, the situation is even worse.

--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--


And thus the bimodal income structure becomes further entrenched. Where is Karl Marx when you need him?

Anonymous User
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:26 am

And thus the bimodal income structure becomes further entrenched. Where is Karl Marx when you need him?


If anything, that's not the case. The fact that clients in the Tier 2/Tier 3 range are more cost-sensitive implies the creation of another salary bump (say, $145k).

blsingindisguise
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby blsingindisguise » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:
And thus the bimodal income structure becomes further entrenched. Where is Karl Marx when you need him?


If anything, that's not the case. The fact that clients in the Tier 2/Tier 3 range are more cost-sensitive implies the creation of another salary bump (say, $145k).


Yes, new bleak economic reality = tons of $145K jobs for new grads, in the magical world where things happen because I want them to.

jarofsoup
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby jarofsoup » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:09 am

There is an actual upswing in the recruiting world


Document review for all!

Stanislaw Carter
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby Stanislaw Carter » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:17 am

Yes, new bleak economic reality = tons of $145K jobs for new grads, in the magical world where things happen because I want them to.


I never said this. The reality here is that firms that used to be able to pay at the top of the market no longer can. This factor is combined with the general reluctance of clients to pay for junior associates at tier 2/3 firms.

alumniguy
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby alumniguy » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:19 am

Anonymous User wrote:If anything, that's not the case. The fact that clients in the Tier 2/Tier 3 range are more cost-sensitive implies the creation of another salary bump (say, $145k).


But the creation of this new salary will undoubtedly come from existing $160k firms that cannot continue to pay their associates at the $160k rate. Yes, there may be less of a bimodal structure, but it will be at the expense of current $160k group.

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AreJay711
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby AreJay711 » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:21 am

Cavalier wrote:Things do seem to be improving, but legal hiring is not (and may not ever be) at "pre recession levels."


I misread this but I'll post anyway. I agree that things may not ever return to pre-recession levels (because firms got burned a bit) but they will improve. The question is will it improve in time for most people on this board to have good prospects.

Stanislaw Carter
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby Stanislaw Carter » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:32 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If anything, that's not the case. The fact that clients in the Tier 2/Tier 3 range are more cost-sensitive implies the creation of another salary bump (say, $145k).


But the creation of this new salary will undoubtedly come from existing $160k firms that cannot continue to pay their associates at the $160k rate. Yes, there may be less of a bimodal structure, but it will be at the expense of current $160k group.


This is not inconsistent with what I said above.
AreJay711 wrote:
Cavalier wrote:Things do seem to be improving, but legal hiring is not (and may not ever be) at "pre recession levels."


I misread this but I'll post anyway. I agree that things may not ever return to pre-recession levels (because firms got burned a bit) but they will improve. The question is will it improve in time for most people on this board to have good prospects.


It's not about the market improving. It's about what clients want. The demand for entry-level attorneys is permanently lowered.

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AreJay711
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby AreJay711 » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:34 am

Anonymous User wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:
Cavalier wrote:Things do seem to be improving, but legal hiring is not (and may not ever be) at "pre recession levels."


I misread this but I'll post anyway. I agree that things may not ever return to pre-recession levels (because firms got burned a bit) but they will improve. The question is will it improve in time for most people on this board to have good prospects.


It's not about the market improving. It's about what clients want. The demand for entry-level attorneys is permanently lowered.


Is it really? Why is that? I don't know why that would be the case but I'm no expert on the legal market.

Stanislaw Carter
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby Stanislaw Carter » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:36 am

Is it really? Why is that? I don't know why that would be the case but I'm no expert on the legal market.


Outsourcing, staff attorneys, and a general reluctance from clients to pay junior associate rates for middling work product.

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romothesavior
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Re: Market on the upswing?

Postby romothesavior » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Is it really? Why is that? I don't know why that would be the case but I'm no expert on the legal market.


Outsourcing, staff attorneys, and a general reluctance from clients to pay junior associate rates for middling work product.

I don't disagree. But I also think it is a bit exaggerated. Permanently lowered? Probably. But things will still be a lot better than they are now at some point in the future. When firms hit a point where they need extra bodies or find that they have a gap in their hiring model, they'll hire more. I've already heard from a number of people in hiring that they expect to see increased hiring this fall, and we've heard reports from some of the megafirms that they plan to hire more as well. I don't expect this fall's OCI to be leaps and bounds better, but it is still better than nothing.

Will it ever be like it was 5 years ago? No. Are there still waaaay more jobs than there are grads? Absolutely yes. But I do think things will still be a bit better in the near future.




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