Which markets don't require strong ties? Forum

[ac1987]

What kind of ties are needed for public defender/assistant district attorney positions?

[drylo]

I'm not trying to be argumentative and I'm not really doubting that you guys are correct. But is bidding on a city without ties to it a strategy that has been proven to fail by people you know, or is it just a dogma that's probably true getting repeated without any real evidence to back it up?

It is a strategy that has been proven "very likely to fail" by people I know.

[AreJay711]

Dallas and Houston are becoming much more open to people who don't have connections because their legal markets are expanding and they are each trying to meet the demands of their clients. From the information I have received so far, it seems like they just want to know that you are excited and interested in working in their market.

I don't know if I would say working in Houston during your 1L summer is "enough" in the sense that it would guarantee you employment there during 2L summer, but it definitely is a huge boost and will make your interest in the city appear much more legitimate.

Thanks. Yeah when I said enough I meant enough to show interest and cancel some doubts that they might have about my commitment to the market.

[SoupIsGoodFood]

Threads like these confuse me because I don't understand what people mean when they say connections/ties to a city/area. Does that mean you used to live there? That you want to live there? That you attended college there? That you have family there? That you know lawyers who work there?

[Stanford4Me]

Threads like these confuse me because I don't understand what people mean when they say connections/ties to a city/area. Does that mean you used to live there? That you want to live there? That you attended college there? That you have family there? That you know lawyers who work there?

All of the above. Generally, strongest ties are if you're originally from there, then if you went to UG there, then if you have family there and last if you have a strong interest in working there.

[dr123]

Threads like these confuse me because I don't understand what people mean when they say connections/ties to a city/area. Does that mean you used to live there? That you want to live there? That you attended college there? That you have family there? That you know lawyers who work there?

All of the above. Generally, strongest ties are if you're originally from there, then if you went to UG there, then if you have family there and last if you have a strong interest in working there.

What if you worked somewhere between UG and LS, would that be a strong tie?

[Stanford4Me]

Threads like these confuse me because I don't understand what people mean when they say connections/ties to a city/area. Does that mean you used to live there? That you want to live there? That you attended college there? That you have family there? That you know lawyers who work there?

All of the above. Generally, strongest ties are if you're originally from there, then if you went to UG there, then if you have family there and last if you have a strong interest in working there.

What if you worked somewhere between UG and LS, would that be a strong tie?

I'm pretty sure they'd consider that a strong tie. One of my connections to a V50 firm in Dallas worked in Dallas before going to law school in DC. He's currently an 8th year back in Dallas and told me that he feels like he actually had it easier that people who went to school in Texas. Obviously it will vary from market to market, but overall yes. I should probably also disclaim that the vast majority of my research has been based on Dallas, because that's where I'll be working after graduation. I spoke with 3 different hiring partners and they each told me about their firm's efforts to increase the number of students who come from schools outside Texas. Haynes Boone (a TX firm) has a one-week program for 1Ls that occurs at the end of the summer and it was started for the sole purpose of giving people who had never been to Dallas an opportunity to see what it is like working there in hopes that they would interview for a 2L SA position.

[barry]

how about atlanta? do they require strong ties?

[keg411]

even if TX is starting to require fewer ties to get biglaw there, i think interviewees still need to convey their interest in moving to and staying in TX. a strong reason for wanting to go there. all im saying is, in all my CBs, why houston/future TX plan questions were asked over and over again -- and I'm from TX btw.

Firms in every non-DC/NY market ask that question. And even the DC/NY firms sometimes do.

Obviously, no matter how strong your ties, you need to be able to articulate a reason to be in a certain city.

I think every employer asks these questions, even for 1L non-firm positions. I got asked about "why do you want to work in X" state, when I go to law school in X state, grew up in X state and had worked in X state since graduating from undergrad. The only years I wasn't living in X state were my 4.5 years of undergrad (and I graduated from undergrad ~6 years ago).

[Grizz]

how about atlanta? do they require strong ties?

Not as parochial as other places in the South. Southerners in general can probably make a pretty strong case for ATL, considering it is the "capital" of the region.

[drylo]

Threads like these confuse me because I don't understand what people mean when they say connections/ties to a city/area. Does that mean you used to live there? That you want to live there? That you attended college there? That you have family there? That you know lawyers who work there?

You have "ties" to a market if you grew up there, call that city home, had any sort of career there, went to UG there, or have immediate family (i.e., parents) there. Also, if you are married and any of the above are true about your spouse, then you have "ties." In my personal experience, UG wasn't very helpful, but that is probably partly because of my specific situation.

[northwood]

what if you went to a school in a city that you visited frequently and loved- and wanted to start your career there- so you went to that city's law school even though you have lived and worked in another neighboring state?

[drylo]

what if you went to a school in a city that you visited frequently and loved- and wanted to start your career there- so you went to that city's law school even though you have lived and worked in another neighboring state?

I think it depends, but it can be. If the city you are talking about is kind of a regional hub (e.g., you grew up in rural Iowa and are trying to work in Minneapolis or St. Louis), then I think you have a stronger case than if you grew up in Louisville and want to work in Columbus. It would also help if your target market is less competitive (perhaps that is obvious). Finally, from what I have seen, you have the best chance of doing what you are talking about if you are married. Firms seem much more willing to hire somebody who moved to the city with a spouse than some 22-year-old single guy/girl.

There could always be an exception to the rule, and each market (and even firm) probably varies in terms of how parochial they are.

I should also add that I am mainly talking about NLJ250-style firms (including smaller firms that handle similarly sophisticated clients and pay market salaries). I don't know a whole lot about other types of hiring.

[seatown12]

What kind of ties are needed for public defender/assistant district attorney positions?

Basically the same situation for PDs as any other law job, region by region.

[Stanford4Me]

what if you went to a school in a city that you visited frequently and loved- and wanted to start your career there- so you went to that city's law school even though you have lived and worked in another neighboring state?

If I'm reading this correctly, the fact that you go to law school in that city should be enough. Especially if the law school is known for being a strong regional law school. For instance, There are lots of people who aren't from Dallas who go to SMU law and end up working in Dallas.

[Anonymous User]

Texas seems to require strong ties throughout, especially in Houston where it's very important to know whether you are a native, or at least that's the impression I get from lawyers there (2x houston firm jobs lined up here). I get the impression Austin does not really care as much as Houston if you are local, based on interviews with those firms, but there's much less economic opportunity in Austin. Everyone seems to like Austin, but out of 50 people in the top 10% maybe 2 or 3 will be summering in Austin this year. Those offers are hard to come by.