government clearance

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03121202698008
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Re: government clearance

Postby 03121202698008 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:13 am

Anonymous User wrote:
shyde32 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am 0L but interested in this too. I am aiming for DHS/DoJ/CIA, etc honors program. Lots of international travel, the most concerning of which was in one of the arab countries (for a government program) that just had a revolution, so a lot of people i know protested etc, some of it on my facebook. I also had a pretty tough childhood with use of drugs and a lot of trouble at school but no charges. Since then, I have smoked pot etc on very rare occasions and stopped completely for the last 4 years. Also, what about internet searches (i.e., streaming TV from bootleg websites). Do you think this will pose a problem for clearances? At what level would I be concerned?


I have heard of people getting denied clearance for traveling in a foreign country; the important thing for you is that your travel can be verified. On every clearance I've ever heard of (and this will definitely be true for national security/intelligence clearances), you will be asked to tell them every country you've ever traveled to. You'll also have to provide contact information for someone who can vouch for your whereabouts, especially in a country that will raise a red flag. Since you were on a government program, that shouldn't be a problem, but make sure you're able to do this for everywhere else you've been. I know of one instance of a person getting denied because the government couldn't verify a few weeks of travel.

The drug use issue gets a lot of people worried, for obvious reasons. As a general rule, there are two things that will determine how strict they will be in my experience. First, how close are they to the drug war? So, no surprise, DEA is the strictest, followed by FBI. Both of those agencies are housed in Justice, but other parts of Justice might be more lenient. Second, how close are they to the military? I think this has less to do with the policy goals of the agency and more to do with the general culture of the place, but DoD can sometimes take a harder line. DHS is a new department which brought together a lot of disparate agencies, so I don't really know how their culture works. I do know that the civilian intelligence agencies like CIA are supposed to be fairly lenient. And, finally, I think most places will look somewhat kindly on your situation because you haven't used much since you were an adult.

I wouldn't worry too much about downloading things illegally from the internet, although again, don't lie if asked. This is especially true since the jobs you're pursuing might require a polygraph. Finally, if there's anything on your Facebook you wouldn't want them to see, DELETE IT. You have to assume they will check.


Very informative response. Thanks.


Some of this information isn't very accurate. I was a security manager, user to get the SIF's denying clearances, and used to escort the OPM investigators around.

Foreign travel doesn't disqualify anyone from a clearance. Nor do foreign contacts unless they are a known spy or something. I know people with TS/Yankee White (highest you can get) that are married to foreign nationals from non-ally countries.

Nor do they outright deny you for missing information. A SIF would be generated and sent to your servicing SMO, who would then contact you and ask for more information and an explanation. This information would be verified and the file would be sent to the central adjudication facility where someone rubs a crystal ball and decides if you're trustworthy enough for a clearance. The person may have told people they were denied for missing travel information but that isn't possible.

Drug use policies are set by each agency and each agencies requirements can be found online. The key is to be honest and have time between use and application.

No clearances requires a polygraph. They are used only if fraud is suspected and for SAP (which you aren't going for). FBI/CIA/DSS use for hiring purposes but not strictly for clearance. The questions they can ask are strictly limited and they are required to go over them with you prior. It is nothing like on tv.

For a summer job, you'd have a secret clearance (at most) which involves a NACLAC & credit check. Thats national/local agency criminal verification and credit. They don't interview anyone and are looking for things that suggest you are completely unreliable. These can take as little as a month and as long as 6 months when their is a backlog at OPM.

Top Secrets take 3-6+ months for someone who already has a secret. For a Top Secret, you'd have a SSBI check and they would interview the people you put down. The standards are slightly more stringent but are still looking for things people may be able to hold over your head or suggestions you can't be trusted.

shyde32
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Re: government clearance

Postby shyde32 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:20 pm

blowhard wrote:Foreign travel doesn't disqualify anyone from a clearance. Nor do foreign contacts unless they are a known spy or something. I know people with TS/Yankee White (highest you can get) that are married to foreign nationals from non-ally countries.


This is what I was driving at, and obviously didn't explain well enough. Foreign travel won't by itself disqualify you, but suspicious contacts while there definitely can.

blowhard wrote:Drug use policies are set by each agency and each agencies requirements can be found online. The key is to be honest and have time between use and application.


It is true that each agency sets its own policy, but some of the official policies are pretty opaque. Here, for instance, is CIA's policy:

CIA wrote:To be considered suitable for Agency employment, applicants must generally not have used illegal drugs within the last 12 months. The issue of illegal drug use prior to 12 months ago is carefully evaluated during the medical and security processing.
[...]
Many applicants wonder if they can pass such scrutiny. The Agency recognizes no one is perfect. Agency security officials consider the nature, extent, seriousness, and recency of past behavior. They weigh the potential risk and benefit of each individual - the whole person - with utmost care. Although national security is always the paramount consideration, our security experts work hard to ensure the Agency does not turn away unnecessarily someone who could make important contributions to the nation's intelligence effort.


Apart from the 12 months requirement, this basically amounts to a balancing test. There aren't any hard and fast rules here. So it's true that each agency has its own policy...but that statement means very little if the policy is subjective.

blowhard wrote:No clearances requires a polygraph. They are used only if fraud is suspected and for SAP (which you aren't going for). FBI/CIA/DSS use for hiring purposes but not strictly for clearance. The questions they can ask are strictly limited and they are required to go over them with you prior. It is nothing like on tv.


I'm well aware that polygraphs are not required to obtain a clearance, and I never said anything contrary to that. What I did say, and what is absolutely true, is that some of the jobs the he/she is considering will require a polygraph. He/she specifically mentioned applying to CIA, so I thought it prudent to mention that.

zahunter
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Re: government clearance

Postby zahunter » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:24 am

To OP. These positions most likely require a secret clearance or at least a temporary secret clearance (don't remember the exact terminogy).
A secret clearance background check should take less than 6 months but can take longer especially if they found something on your SF 86 (if you filled one out) and deemed it necessary to interview you. If they haven't interviewed you regarding your clearance, there most likely is no issue. It just takes a while to process it.
The biggest reasons people get denied are for serious criminal convictions or for significant credit issues.
Sorry if I missed something in the previous posts but I would assume they require the secret clearance and you haven't been interviewed.

For FBI/CIA, I believe they do require a polygraph for full time employment of agents, but I don't know about legal employees. I would inquire with HR at the applicable agency. Don't be afraid to ask the question. Also, for these positions, drug use within the past few years might be a problem if they do require you to partake in a polygraph.

Anonymous User
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Re: government clearance

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:59 am

do you know anyone's whose summer job was rescinded because they couldnt get clearance in time?

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JPrezy87
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Re: government clearance

Postby JPrezy87 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What about stuff before you were 18? Including some drug use and minor class c misdemeanor.


dude...didnt you have a thread on this VERY SAME SUBJECT before?? And weren't you told that as long as your honest about any dirty laundry in your past (like drug use) you'd be alright with the Feds??

And dude...are you double posting?! It seems every thread you start you reply to yourself pretending to be another person.... :lol: :lol:

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JPrezy87
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Re: government clearance

Postby JPrezy87 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:36 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:For doj summer I believe it is just the standard.background check which doesn't take more than a month or two, sec is probably the same


Aye Pat...nice to see you finally got an Avatar that's not of a woman's tits :).

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Patriot1208
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Re: government clearance

Postby Patriot1208 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:37 pm

JPrezy87 wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:For doj summer I believe it is just the standard.background check which doesn't take more than a month or two, sec is probably the same


Aye Pat...nice to see you finally got an Avatar that's not of a woman's tits :).

This was my march madness tar, unfortunately march madness did not go as planned. And tbf the titties tar was recommended to me by a female poster as being especially patriotic.

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ResolutePear
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Re: government clearance

Postby ResolutePear » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:41 pm

JPrezy87 wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:For doj summer I believe it is just the standard.background check which doesn't take more than a month or two, sec is probably the same


Aye Pat...nice to see you finally got an Avatar that's not of awoman's tits plz :).

Anonymous User
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Re: government clearance

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:55 pm

i jsut don't get why it takes so long for clearance. i'm not worried about drugs or debt or anything, i just want to be able to start my job in may!

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Rotor
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Re: government clearance

Postby Rotor » Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:i jsut don't get why it takes so long for clearance. i'm not worried about drugs or debt or anything, i just want to be able to start my job in may!

A) You will be able to start with an interim clearance, so chill a bit.
B) There are thousands of others in the same boat and a fairly small handful of investigators (and why OPM contracted out the investigations to try and make up the backlog). The actual investigation (not TS) probably doesn't take all that long. It's the matter of getting to it that takes a while; and
C) Even if your agency doesn't issue interims to summers (haven't heard of this), they are all aware of the clearance delays and are familiar with parsing out classified/unclassified work.

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Re: government clearance

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:12 pm

k iw as just worried because some people have told me if i dont get clearance, i prob just wont have a job

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Re: government clearance

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:57 am

anyone in the sec program for the summer get clearance or a start date?

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Re: government clearance

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 11, 2011 9:16 am

Anyone have experience getting clearance for executive (policy-based) agencies? I wasn't even aware that I needed one for my job; I thought the "security" appointment they scheduled for after school got out would consist of getting my photo badges and pass cards.

So I fill out the questionnaire, they tell me to wait and I'll hear from them. I disclose what I need to disclose, like a good kid, including a DUI from three years ago right out of college. Yesterday they call and say something showed up my FBI report and they "can't tell" if it's the same thing or not. (I haven't otherwise had anything more than a minor traffic ticket, so I have no idea what else it could even be.) They ask for supporting documentation, and a whirlwind search of my room this morning reveals I don't have copies of any kind of final dispo paperwork from the court.

Now I'm panicking that A) I'm going to fail my clearance outright, B) this process is going to take so long I can't actually work for them and am screwed for OCI, and/or C) my FBI record is messed up and I'm not sure how to fix that.

Anyone else have stuff like this happen?

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Re: government clearance

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 11, 2011 10:31 am

There are definitely some jobs/clearance levels that require a poly.

Maybe not any that you'll be applying for, but there are DEFINITELY jobs that require polygraphs, and security clearances that require polygraphs.

My brother had to take them at certain security levels for clearance. He's never been in trouble or suspected of anything, it's standard procedure at certain levels of certain agencies. If you aren't aware of that, you weren't as high as you think you were.

And for god's sake, just DO NOT LIE about anything. The likely don't care if you smoked pot when you were 14 as long as you honestly haven't since, but they really don't like liars. It doesn't bode well. Don't lie, particularly if you want to continue in government service. Are they going to polygraph you NOW about your pot use at 14? Doubt it. If you continue with the agency is there a chance they may poly you LATER about ever having lied to them in the past? YES. Don't do it.

03121202698008
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Re: government clearance

Postby 03121202698008 » Wed May 11, 2011 10:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:There are definitely some jobs/clearance levels that require a poly.

Maybe not any that you'll be applying for, but there are DEFINITELY jobs that require polygraphs, and security clearances that require polygraphs.

My brother had to take them at certain security levels for clearance. He's never been in trouble or suspected of anything, it's standard procedure at certain levels of certain agencies. If you aren't aware of that, you weren't as high as you think you were.

And for god's sake, just DO NOT LIE about anything. The likely don't care if you smoked pot when you were 14 as long as you honestly haven't since, but they really don't like liars. It doesn't bode well. Don't lie, particularly if you want to continue in government service. Are they going to polygraph you NOW about your pot use at 14? Doubt it. If you continue with the agency is there a chance they may poly you LATER about ever having lied to them in the past? YES. Don't do it.


Wrong. Poly's are only for hiring at certain agencies and when fraud is suspected on the SF86. I used to be the one that ordered the investigations for clearances up to Top Secret Yankee White (highest clearance US has...all access/all agency, all SSI/SAP regardless of classifying agency, and carry guns in proximity to the President).

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Patriot1208
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Re: government clearance

Postby Patriot1208 » Wed May 11, 2011 10:49 am

blowhard wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:There are definitely some jobs/clearance levels that require a poly.

Maybe not any that you'll be applying for, but there are DEFINITELY jobs that require polygraphs, and security clearances that require polygraphs.

My brother had to take them at certain security levels for clearance. He's never been in trouble or suspected of anything, it's standard procedure at certain levels of certain agencies. If you aren't aware of that, you weren't as high as you think you were.

And for god's sake, just DO NOT LIE about anything. The likely don't care if you smoked pot when you were 14 as long as you honestly haven't since, but they really don't like liars. It doesn't bode well. Don't lie, particularly if you want to continue in government service. Are they going to polygraph you NOW about your pot use at 14? Doubt it. If you continue with the agency is there a chance they may poly you LATER about ever having lied to them in the past? YES. Don't do it.

Wrong. Poly's are only for hiring at certain agencies and when fraud is suspected on the SF86. I used to be the one that ordered the investigations for clearances up to Top Secret Yankee White (highest clearance US has...all access/all agency, all SSI/SAP regardless of classifying agency, and carry guns in proximity to the President).


Isn't it true that to grant an SCI, depending on where it is, you require a poly?

03121202698008
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Re: government clearance

Postby 03121202698008 » Wed May 11, 2011 10:52 am

Patriot1208 wrote:
blowhard wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:There are definitely some jobs/clearance levels that require a poly.

Maybe not any that you'll be applying for, but there are DEFINITELY jobs that require polygraphs, and security clearances that require polygraphs.

My brother had to take them at certain security levels for clearance. He's never been in trouble or suspected of anything, it's standard procedure at certain levels of certain agencies. If you aren't aware of that, you weren't as high as you think you were.

And for god's sake, just DO NOT LIE about anything. The likely don't care if you smoked pot when you were 14 as long as you honestly haven't since, but they really don't like liars. It doesn't bode well. Don't lie, particularly if you want to continue in government service. Are they going to polygraph you NOW about your pot use at 14? Doubt it. If you continue with the agency is there a chance they may poly you LATER about ever having lied to them in the past? YES. Don't do it.

Wrong. Poly's are only for hiring at certain agencies and when fraud is suspected on the SF86. I used to be the one that ordered the investigations for clearances up to Top Secret Yankee White (highest clearance US has...all access/all agency, all SSI/SAP regardless of classifying agency, and carry guns in proximity to the President).


Isn't it true that to grant an SCI, depending on where it is, you require a poly?


Not for the SCI clearance itself. They poly when granting access to certain compartments...like CIA HQ. It's an employment thing though, not a clearance. Nor is it possible to enter into any of those compartments with a first clearance.

Edit: Ok, maybe technically possible but never going to happen. There are maybe ~100 people in the entire USG that are in poly required SCIs. Even access to nuke info doesn't require a poly. They are only for extremely sensitive operations, typically like hunting spies because of the need to exclude access to normal channels that haven't been screened. Even normal intel access doesn't require a poly for their TS/SCI.

Edit2: To be clear, some agencies poly upon hiring/periodically/before certain assignments. But those are completely independent of their clearance (though they may lose clearance if fail). And, those agencies make such requirements clearly known prior to application. (They are required to do so.) People that have submitted an SF86 and not been told...won't be getting polygraphed unless the investigator suspects serious fraud. An SF86 is not completed until AFTER an offer of employment has been extended and they don't extend those until after the poly is complete if required. For discrepancies, they ask for supplementation. Then if they think fraudulent, they usually just deny. If they are doing a poly, expect a US Atty target letter to be coming shortly.




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