Go to UVA or keep working?

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Kohinoor
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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby Kohinoor » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:08 am

OldManHunger wrote:What the fuck is that--a blurb ripped from TLS's "about the law school" page, written by a 0L? A flame? I'm not even going to bother addressing that bullshit.

The University of Virginia School of Law is a world-renowned training ground for distinguished lawyers and public servants. Virginia has educated generations of lawyers, instilling in them a commitment to leadership, integrity, and community service. A faculty of nationally acclaimed experts in their fields and outstanding teachers lead Virginia’s students to appreciate the power of law to shape human behavior and to influence political, social, and cultural life.

Virginia is justly famous for its collegial environment that bonds students and faculty, and student satisfaction is consistently cited as among the highest in American law schools. Intellectual challenges are met in a spirit of cooperation. Small first-year sections promote individual inquiry while providing support and friendship. Students learn together, reading each other’s work and freely sharing course outlines and other materials, confidently relying on the student-run Honor System to maintain the highest ethical standards.

Virginia has a national reputation for producing highly skilled lawyers with a healthy combination of legal acuity and personal balance.

OldManHunger
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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby OldManHunger » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:10 am

.
Last edited by OldManHunger on Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jlyrix
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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby jlyrix » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:19 am

I don't think you guys were really listening to this guy. He's got the opportunity to go to GULC part-time subsidized. I say forget UVA and go to GULC part-time, keep working as a financial analyst, get that promotion and as soon as you graduate move up in the FINANCIAL world into Management Consulting. There would be no doubt of your financial/economic knowledge and a GULC degree would allow you to start at an associate level (including bonus) at around 200k. In addition, graduating from GULC would get you promising looks from solid law firms, where you could work for a few years and receive awesome recommendations when you jump on the associate track at places like BCG, Bain, and McKinsey. Think of the possibilities. You're already in the financial world, and if that doesnt work out, there would be a ton of law firms waiting to hire you in after 10 years in Consulting you don't want to do it any more. Don't listen to the people who are overlooking the work you've put in.

You're still working; you've made it past the worst of the recession. Make the most of your position. Stay in the financial field. Go to GULC part-time.

moose
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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby moose » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:42 am

jlyrix wrote:I don't think you guys were really listening to this guy. He's got the opportunity to go to GULC part-time subsidized. I say forget UVA and go to GULC part-time, keep working as a financial analyst, get that promotion and as soon as you graduate move up in the FINANCIAL world into Management Consulting. There would be no doubt of your financial/economic knowledge and a GULC degree would allow you to start at an associate level (including bonus) at around 200k. In addition, graduating from GULC would get you promising looks from solid law firms, where you could work for a few years and receive awesome recommendations when you jump on the associate track at places like BCG, Bain, and McKinsey. Think of the possibilities. You're already in the financial world, and if that doesnt work out, there would be a ton of law firms waiting to hire you in after 10 years in Consulting you don't want to do it any more. Don't listen to the people who are overlooking the work you've put in.

You're still working; you've made it past the worst of the recession. Make the most of your position. Stay in the financial field. Go to GULC part-time.



Actually McDonough School of Business,..not GULC. So if I took the Georgetown route it would NOT be for law.

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sanetruth
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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby sanetruth » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:58 am

Yea, to be honest, a lot of people on this forum know nothing about MBA or business-track careers. since they are or are planning to be disillusioned with their own path, they think anything is better. not to say that some of the advice is incorrect, but you were right to point out the difference between UVA law and Georgetown business school: they are just not on the same level at all.

so, given that, if prestige is what you're looking for, and hoping that prestige will land you a better/more satisfying career, go to UVA.

however, if your sole priority is money (and debt), then the business route might be better.

its just amusing that so many people are spouting off things like 'oh the legal industry is completely fucked, so go to a less prestigious business school you'll be making 7 figures in no time'. idiocy.

i can assure you there are people on business school forums right now saying the exact opposite. "oh you got into Ross? man the economy is shit you're not going to be able to get a good job, you should just go to U Iowa Law, you'll be partner in no time."

just saying.

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Alex-Trof
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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby Alex-Trof » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:04 pm

moose wrote:I got accepted to UVA at sticker price (class of 2013),...i deferred for a year because I started to have doubts about the job market and debt load I would be taking on. Right now I work as a financial analyst making $70K a year (I work about 40 hours a week), I'm still servicing about $25k of undergrad debt and I have about $20K in savings. My other option is to enroll in a part-time MBA at Georgetown for 3 years which will run me about $90k with my company paying about $30K. Obviously I'm going to make my own choice,...but I just wanted to get a feel for what some of you guys would do and get some outside perspectives on this. Thanks.

I am actually in almost identical situation, except for I don't have enough years of experience to get accepted into a decent MBA program. Why Georgetown? If you got accepted to UVA, you're obviously smart enough to get into a better b-school. Michigan/UCLA/Cornell/Duke are all much better than Georgetown. Seems like MBA would be a wise choice, just don't go to Georgetown.

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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby moose » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:25 pm

Alex-Trof wrote:
moose wrote:I got accepted to UVA at sticker price (class of 2013),...i deferred for a year because I started to have doubts about the job market and debt load I would be taking on. Right now I work as a financial analyst making $70K a year (I work about 40 hours a week), I'm still servicing about $25k of undergrad debt and I have about $20K in savings. My other option is to enroll in a part-time MBA at Georgetown for 3 years which will run me about $90k with my company paying about $30K. Obviously I'm going to make my own choice,...but I just wanted to get a feel for what some of you guys would do and get some outside perspectives on this. Thanks.

I am actually in almost identical situation, except for I don't have enough years of experience to get accepted into a decent MBA program. Why Georgetown? If you got accepted to UVA, you're obviously smart enough to get into a better b-school. Michigan/UCLA/Cornell/Duke are all much better than Georgetown. Seems like MBA would be a wise choice, just don't go to Georgetown.


I work in DC,...so if i want to keep working and take advantage of my company's education re-imbursement program, the best school in the area is Gtown. I looked into executive MBAs, but they usually require significantly more experience. Like 15 yrs work experience on average at some of the top prorgams like Chicago.

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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby Bumi » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:36 pm

sanetruth wrote:its just amusing that so many people are spouting off things like 'oh the legal industry is completely fucked, so go to a less prestigious business school you'll be making 7 figures in no time'. idiocy.


Nobody said that.

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Alex-Trof
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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby Alex-Trof » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:52 pm

moose wrote:I work in DC,...so if i want to keep working and take advantage of my company's education re-imbursement program, the best school in the area is Gtown. I looked into executive MBAs, but they usually require significantly more experience. Like 15 yrs work experience on average at some of the top prorgams like Chicago.

Interesting, I would think you can get a scholly or something from Gtown. Honestly, I see what you're saying about trading UVA prestige fir Gtown convencience. But, if I can understand your situation correctly, you would give up your current job for top law school but wouldn't do the same for a top full-time MBA program? I know you have an option of working and getting part-time from Georgetown, but thats is much worse, IMO, than a full-time program from a better school.

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sanetruth
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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby sanetruth » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:57 pm

Bumi wrote:
sanetruth wrote:its just amusing that so many people are spouting off things like 'oh the legal industry is completely fucked, so go to a less prestigious business school you'll be making 7 figures in no time'. idiocy.


Nobody said that.


clearly it was an exaggerated and consolidated quote, but see below for references, and this is just in this thread, i was talking about the whole forum:

thecilent wrote:Dude I would definitely work and get the mba. Climb your way up or try to land a spot at an ibank.

Do you really want to pay sticker at uva and waste three years with a chance of hating your life after anywayz.



Julio_El_Chavo wrote:the MBA gives you a better chance at seven figs, IMO.


OldManHunger wrote:
UVA--or any law school--isn't really the great opportunity most of us believed it to be before actually entering the profession. The economic collapse of the last few years stripped away the illusion for anyone who was paying attention or who was directly affected by it. Law firms laid off hundreds of their attorneys; they broke their promises and broke with tradition by rescinding dozens of offers to law students, seriously fucking those students' careers;



I'm not saying everything in those quotes is untrue, i'm just saying its not as clear-cut when you consider the fact that georgetown b school just isn't nearly on the same level as UVA law, and most of these comments are uninformed in this regard, so its in OP's interest to take them with a grain of salt.

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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby moose » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:02 pm

Alex-Trof wrote:
moose wrote:I work in DC,...so if i want to keep working and take advantage of my company's education re-imbursement program, the best school in the area is Gtown. I looked into executive MBAs, but they usually require significantly more experience. Like 15 yrs work experience on average at some of the top prorgams like Chicago.

Interesting, I would think you can get a scholly or something from Gtown. Honestly, I see what you're saying about trading UVA prestige fir Gtown convencience. But, if I can understand your situation correctly, you would give up your current job for top law school but wouldn't do the same for a top full-time MBA program? I know you have an option of working and getting part-time from Georgetown, but thats is much worse, IMO, than a full-time program from a better school.


Well, I doubt I'd get scholly money,...but I'm sure i'll get atleast 1/3rd payed by my company. Thats the first thing, secondly, and don't quote me on this but I think prestige in legal job market is more of a factor than it would be with an MBA. Three more years of quality work experience in conjunction with a Gtown degree may be just as valuable as a t10 mba degree for all I know. But I would love to hear opinions on that if people think differently.

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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby moose » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:04 pm

sanetruth wrote:I'm not saying everything in those quotes is untrue, i'm just saying its not as clear-cut when you consider the fact that georgetown b school just isn't nearly on the same level as UVA law, and most of these comments are uninformed in this regard, so its in OP's interest to take them with a grain of salt.


So I'd like to hear your opinion on how much of a role prestige plays in the post-MBA job hunt as compared to legal.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby Stringer Bell » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:07 pm

I had to make a similar decision and am going to LS although there are some key distinctions between our situations.

What you really need to decide is what your near and long term career goals will be if you don't go to LS and how you are going to go about acheiving those.

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Alex-Trof
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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby Alex-Trof » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:37 pm

moose wrote:
Well, I doubt I'd get scholly money,...but I'm sure i'll get atleast 1/3rd payed by my company. Thats the first thing, secondly, and don't quote me on this but I think prestige in legal job market is more of a factor than it would be with an MBA. Three more years of quality work experience in conjunction with a Gtown degree may be just as valuable as a t10 mba degree for all I know. But I would love to hear opinions on that if people think differently.

The bolded is something you may wish to research more.

I have done some research on MBA programs and it really depends on a situation. With law school, prestige and grades are everything. With MBA, it depends on how you use it. With some companies you just need a paper to move the career ladder. However, to get to the top or to transfer to one of those lucrative consulting/i-banking jobs, which school gave you an MBA means everything. For example, check out the bios of mutual fund/hedge fund managers. Almost all of them have MBAs from M7 (top seven schools). In my current industry, our main exec has an MBA for Chicago, and the external consultant I worked under had an MBA from Harvard. So, IMO, prestige matters. And it looks like it matters even more if giving up t10 law school.

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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby moose » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:29 am

Alex-Trof wrote:
moose wrote:
Well, I doubt I'd get scholly money,...but I'm sure i'll get atleast 1/3rd payed by my company. Thats the first thing, secondly, and don't quote me on this but I think prestige in legal job market is more of a factor than it would be with an MBA. Three more years of quality work experience in conjunction with a Gtown degree may be just as valuable as a t10 mba degree for all I know. But I would love to hear opinions on that if people think differently.

The bolded is something you may wish to research more.

I have done some research on MBA programs and it really depends on a situation. With law school, prestige and grades are everything. With MBA, it depends on how you use it. With some companies you just need a paper to move the career ladder. However, to get to the top or to transfer to one of those lucrative consulting/i-banking jobs, which school gave you an MBA means everything. For example, check out the bios of mutual fund/hedge fund managers. Almost all of them have MBAs from M7 (top seven schools). In my current industry, our main exec has an MBA for Chicago, and the external consultant I worked under had an MBA from Harvard. So, IMO, prestige matters. And it looks like it matters even more if giving up t10 law school.


I think prestige might matter more for the really high end I-banks and hedge funds. Personally, I would much rather do Competitive Strategy or management consulting. I know folks at Booz Allen and Deloitte Consulting that are Associates and above that have MBAs from the likes of Georgetown, George Washington, AU,..etc etc. Once you get in the door your ability to make Principal depends solely on your knack for bringing business in the door.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:47 am

moose wrote:
Alex-Trof wrote:
moose wrote:
Well, I doubt I'd get scholly money,...but I'm sure i'll get atleast 1/3rd payed by my company. Thats the first thing, secondly, and don't quote me on this but I think prestige in legal job market is more of a factor than it would be with an MBA. Three more years of quality work experience in conjunction with a Gtown degree may be just as valuable as a t10 mba degree for all I know. But I would love to hear opinions on that if people think differently.

The bolded is something you may wish to research more.

I have done some research on MBA programs and it really depends on a situation. With law school, prestige and grades are everything. With MBA, it depends on how you use it. With some companies you just need a paper to move the career ladder. However, to get to the top or to transfer to one of those lucrative consulting/i-banking jobs, which school gave you an MBA means everything. For example, check out the bios of mutual fund/hedge fund managers. Almost all of them have MBAs from M7 (top seven schools). In my current industry, our main exec has an MBA for Chicago, and the external consultant I worked under had an MBA from Harvard. So, IMO, prestige matters. And it looks like it matters even more if giving up t10 law school.


I think prestige might matter more for the really high end I-banks and hedge funds. Personally, I would much rather do Competitive Strategy or management consulting. I know folks at Booz Allen and Deloitte Consulting that are Associates and above that have MBAs from the likes of Georgetown, George Washington, AU,..etc etc. Once you get in the door your ability to make Principal depends solely on your knack for bringing business in the door.


A couple things. Getting consulting from Georgetown is going to be tough. I doubt MBB does any significant recruiting from there. Booz Allen Hamilton, Deloitte, and probably other smaller firms probably do a decent amount of recruiting there. But it's not unlikely you'd be shut out. Also, BHA is almost all government consulting now and I bet most of Deloitte that recruits there is government consulting. The strategy side of BHA split off into Booz & CO so if you want to do management consulting in the private sector I wouldn't do Georgetown.

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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby moose » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:58 am

Patriot1208 wrote:
moose wrote:
Alex-Trof wrote:
moose wrote:
Well, I doubt I'd get scholly money,...but I'm sure i'll get atleast 1/3rd payed by my company. Thats the first thing, secondly, and don't quote me on this but I think prestige in legal job market is more of a factor than it would be with an MBA. Three more years of quality work experience in conjunction with a Gtown degree may be just as valuable as a t10 mba degree for all I know. But I would love to hear opinions on that if people think differently.

The bolded is something you may wish to research more.

I have done some research on MBA programs and it really depends on a situation. With law school, prestige and grades are everything. With MBA, it depends on how you use it. With some companies you just need a paper to move the career ladder. However, to get to the top or to transfer to one of those lucrative consulting/i-banking jobs, which school gave you an MBA means everything. For example, check out the bios of mutual fund/hedge fund managers. Almost all of them have MBAs from M7 (top seven schools). In my current industry, our main exec has an MBA for Chicago, and the external consultant I worked under had an MBA from Harvard. So, IMO, prestige matters. And it looks like it matters even more if giving up t10 law school.


I think prestige might matter more for the really high end I-banks and hedge funds. Personally, I would much rather do Competitive Strategy or management consulting. I know folks at Booz Allen and Deloitte Consulting that are Associates and above that have MBAs from the likes of Georgetown, George Washington, AU,..etc etc. Once you get in the door your ability to make Principal depends solely on your knack for bringing business in the door.


A couple things. Getting consulting from Georgetown is going to be tough. I doubt MBB does any significant recruiting from there. Booz Allen Hamilton, Deloitte, and probably other smaller firms probably do a decent amount of recruiting there. But it's not unlikely you'd be shut out. Also, BHA is almost all government consulting now and I bet most of Deloitte that recruits there is government consulting. The strategy side of BHA split off into Booz & CO so if you want to do management consulting in the private sector I wouldn't do Georgetown.


If I did get shutout then atleast I would still have a job, an MBA, and little to no debt. So in the scheme of things I think its worth doing personally. I know that BAH does competitive strategy work, but you're right the lions share of their business is government contracting. But I personally got a call back about a Business Strategy position with them last year. Interestingly, the Associate (hiring manager) for that position got his MBA from Gtown.
Last edited by moose on Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:02 am

moose wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
moose wrote:
Alex-Trof wrote:The bolded is something you may wish to research more.

I have done some research on MBA programs and it really depends on a situation. With law school, prestige and grades are everything. With MBA, it depends on how you use it. With some companies you just need a paper to move the career ladder. However, to get to the top or to transfer to one of those lucrative consulting/i-banking jobs, which school gave you an MBA means everything. For example, check out the bios of mutual fund/hedge fund managers. Almost all of them have MBAs from M7 (top seven schools). In my current industry, our main exec has an MBA for Chicago, and the external consultant I worked under had an MBA from Harvard. So, IMO, prestige matters. And it looks like it matters even more if giving up t10 law school.


I think prestige might matter more for the really high end I-banks and hedge funds. Personally, I would much rather do Competitive Strategy or management consulting. I know folks at Booz Allen and Deloitte Consulting that are Associates and above that have MBAs from the likes of Georgetown, George Washington, AU,..etc etc. Once you get in the door your ability to make Principal depends solely on your knack for bringing business in the door.


A couple things. Getting consulting from Georgetown is going to be tough. I doubt MBB does any significant recruiting from there. Booz Allen Hamilton, Deloitte, and probably other smaller firms probably do a decent amount of recruiting there. But it's not unlikely you'd be shut out. Also, BHA is almost all government consulting now and I bet most of Deloitte that recruits there is government consulting. The strategy side of BHA split off into Booz & CO so if you want to do management consulting in the private sector I wouldn't do Georgetown.


Well then atleast I would have a job, an MBA, and little to no debt. So in the scheme of things I think its worth doing personally.

O ya, Sure. I personally would continue paying off your debt and then reapply to better MBA programs and if you got into a top school go there and if not go to Gtown partially subsidized. Law school, especially since you are so unsure about law, probably doesn't sound like your best bet. Especially if you like what you are doing now.

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Alex-Trof
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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby Alex-Trof » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:02 pm

moose wrote:I think prestige might matter more for the really high end I-banks and hedge funds. Personally, I would much rather do Competitive Strategy or management consulting. I know folks at Booz Allen and Deloitte Consulting that are Associates and above that have MBAs from the likes of Georgetown, George Washington, AU,..etc etc. Once you get in the door your ability to make Principal depends solely on your knack for bringing business in the door.

You're right about making principal. School will only help you make ties and open some doors. Yet, I do think there is a huge difference betweem being able to get any job from top b-school and the rest. My friend goes to Booth (UMich). Just looking through careers posted took my breath away. I have another friend graduating from ASU (it is not as bad as undergrad 20-30th ranked) with 0 job prospects. And grades in b-schools matter very little.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:04 pm

Alex-Trof wrote:
moose wrote:I think prestige might matter more for the really high end I-banks and hedge funds. Personally, I would much rather do Competitive Strategy or management consulting. I know folks at Booz Allen and Deloitte Consulting that are Associates and above that have MBAs from the likes of Georgetown, George Washington, AU,..etc etc. Once you get in the door your ability to make Principal depends solely on your knack for bringing business in the door.

You're right about making principal. School will only help you make ties and open some doors. Yet, I do think there is a huge difference betweem being able to get any job from top b-school and the rest. My friend goes to Booth (UMich). Just looking through careers posted took my breath away. I have another friend graduating from ASU (it is not as bad as undergrad 20-30th ranked) with 0 job prospects. And grades in b-schools matter very little.

Booth is not michigan, it's chicago. Ross is Michigan.

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Alex-Trof
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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby Alex-Trof » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:05 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
Alex-Trof wrote:
moose wrote:I think prestige might matter more for the really high end I-banks and hedge funds. Personally, I would much rather do Competitive Strategy or management consulting. I know folks at Booz Allen and Deloitte Consulting that are Associates and above that have MBAs from the likes of Georgetown, George Washington, AU,..etc etc. Once you get in the door your ability to make Principal depends solely on your knack for bringing business in the door.

You're right about making principal. School will only help you make ties and open some doors. Yet, I do think there is a huge difference betweem being able to get any job from top b-school and the rest. My friend goes to Booth (UMich). Just looking through careers posted took my breath away. I have another friend graduating from ASU (it is not as bad as undergrad 20-30th ranked) with 0 job prospects. And grades in b-schools matter very little.

Booth is not michigan, it's chicago. Ross is Michigan.

Fuck, my bad. You're right.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:07 pm

Alex-Trof wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
Alex-Trof wrote:
moose wrote:I think prestige might matter more for the really high end I-banks and hedge funds. Personally, I would much rather do Competitive Strategy or management consulting. I know folks at Booz Allen and Deloitte Consulting that are Associates and above that have MBAs from the likes of Georgetown, George Washington, AU,..etc etc. Once you get in the door your ability to make Principal depends solely on your knack for bringing business in the door.

You're right about making principal. School will only help you make ties and open some doors. Yet, I do think there is a huge difference betweem being able to get any job from top b-school and the rest. My friend goes to Booth (UMich). Just looking through careers posted took my breath away. I have another friend graduating from ASU (it is not as bad as undergrad 20-30th ranked) with 0 job prospects. And grades in b-schools matter very little.

Booth is not michigan, it's chicago. Ross is Michigan.

Fuck, my bad. You're right.

So does he go to Ross or Booth? I'd imagine even the differences in opportunities between booth and Ross are substantial at the MBA level.

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Alex-Trof
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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby Alex-Trof » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:10 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:So does he go to Ross or Booth? I'd imagine even the differences in opportunities between booth and Ross are substantial at the MBA level.

Ross. He interviewed for both. Got into Ross.

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esq
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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby esq » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:15 pm

Dude, you have a solid job. Keep it, get an MBA. Going to law school might just find you the same sort of salary paying off a $210,000 loan for the rest of your life. Honestly, I don't see the downside to keeping your job and having your employers pay for some of your MBA.

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Re: Go to UVA or keep working?

Postby moose » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:11 am

I've made my decision. Not going to UVA. Instead, I'll work for another year and by then should have enough stashed away to pay for an MBA cold cash. Will study for the gmat, take it hopefully August and hope and pray to God I get accepted at a t10 program. MIT would be my ideal spot. But heck, I would be more than happy to get into a school like Darden. We'll see,...wish me luck. It looks like the law track has come to its final stop for me.




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