Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

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mm12
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Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby mm12 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:01 pm

I was just wondering what the employment outlook is like for the entertainment and sports law industry (starting salaries, # of jobs, etc.) coming from a school like loyola/pepperdine?

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Verity
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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby Verity » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:03 pm

ED to UVA.

blsingindisguise
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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby blsingindisguise » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:09 pm

I'm going to teach you a useful life lesson: the (extra-financial) desirability and sexiness of a career tends to have an inverse effect on salaries and ease of getting a job in that field. Everyone thinks "entertainment law" and "sports law" sound cool, and therefore lots of people are willing to do it for low salaries. That said, if you want to do it and are willing to risk a low salary and possibly no job (a realistic risk in general right now with law school), go to the best school you can and do as much as you can in the way of internships, clinics and related courses. The few people I know who found entertainment law jobs right out of school were dedicated to that path throughout. They're not making big money but some of them did find interesting jobs.

blsingindisguise
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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby blsingindisguise » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:11 pm

Just to give an example, I interned at a relatively large entertainment "boutique" -- nearly a midsized firm that focused exclusively on entertainment -- in a major market with lots of entertainment business. The firm was considered one of the best in the field. They averaged less than one hire right out of school per year, had not hired anyone out of school in the last three years, and paid (I heard) something in the range of $40000 to start.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:17 pm

mm12 wrote:I was just wondering what the employment outlook is like for the entertainment and sports law industry (starting salaries, # of jobs, etc.) coming from a school like loyola/pepperdine?

Image

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lawfreak
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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby lawfreak » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:20 pm

I'd say in your situation where you're looking at schools with the equivalence to pepperdine, that the no brainer choice is Cardozo. Cardozo has an extremely reputable IP program (intellectual property) ranking at the fourth best IP program in the country!!!! and Entertainment/Sports law falls under that catagory so go with Cardozo.

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby FeelTheHeat » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:26 pm

lawfreak wrote:I'd say in your situation where you're looking at schools with the equivalence to pepperdine, that the no brainer choice is Cardozo. Cardozo has an extremely reputable IP program (intellectual property) ranking at the fourth best IP program in the country!!!! and Entertainment/Sports law falls under that catagory so go with Cardozo.


Goddamnit do I really have to deal with you and taxguy posting on the same day?

blsingindisguise
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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby blsingindisguise » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:29 pm

lawfreak wrote:I'd say in your situation where you're looking at schools with the equivalence to pepperdine, that the no brainer choice is Cardozo. Cardozo has an extremely reputable IP program (intellectual property) ranking at the fourth best IP program in the country!!!! and Entertainment/Sports law falls under that catagory so go with Cardozo.


And if you can't find a job in entertainment law coming out of Cardozo the school might give you a job doing stealth marketing for its admissions office!!! Where you can make claims of dubious value and bolster them with lots of exclamation points!!!

mm12
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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby mm12 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:34 pm

Thanks for the insight.

I kind of feel that entertainment/sports law are industries you should get into only if the right opportunity arises.

I do know a chairman at one of the major film studios who said he is willing to help me out

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Bill Cosby
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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby Bill Cosby » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:48 pm

FeelTheHeat wrote:
lawfreak wrote:I'd say in your situation where you're looking at schools with the equivalence to pepperdine, that the no brainer choice is Cardozo. Cardozo has an extremely reputable IP program (intellectual property) ranking at the fourth best IP program in the country!!!! and Entertainment/Sports law falls under that catagory so go with Cardozo.


Goddamnit do I really have to deal with you and taxguy posting on the same day?


Go get 'em.

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lawfreak
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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby lawfreak » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:21 am

blsingindisguise wrote:
lawfreak wrote:I'd say in your situation where you're looking at schools with the equivalence to pepperdine, that the no brainer choice is Cardozo. Cardozo has an extremely reputable IP program (intellectual property) ranking at the fourth best IP program in the country!!!! and Entertainment/Sports law falls under that catagory so go with Cardozo.


And if you can't find a job in entertainment law coming out of Cardozo the school might give you a job doing stealth marketing for its admissions office!!! Where you can make claims of dubious value and bolster them with lots of exclamation points!!!



LMAO!!! at "claims of dubious value". Apparently you know nothing about Cardozo, so stop wasting everyones time with you're dumbass posts of "dubious value"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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vanwinkle
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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:00 am

lawfreak wrote:LMAO!!! at "claims of dubious value". Apparently you know nothing about Cardozo, so stop wasting everyones time with you're dumbass posts of "dubious value"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I notice that you're a 0L posting clearly bad advice in one of the Students and Graduates forums. If you wish to not be banned, I recommend you stop immediately.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:09 am

mm12 wrote:I was just wondering what the employment outlook is like for the entertainment and sports law industry (starting salaries, # of jobs, etc.) coming from a school like loyola/pepperdine?


Give us your definition of sports law.

There are various areas of "sports law" which include:
1. NCAA compliance and regulation
2. Professional and not exactly professional teams
3. Sports agents
4. Boutique/big firm with sports practice

I can't think of anything else. Each one of these is different, as NCAA compliance and sports agent jobs don't really rely on law school grades like General Counsels and boutique/big firms do. If you want to do one of the former, you should spend 1L summer and 2L academic year doing something in that field. If you want the latter, you need tip top grades from those schools.

Aqualibrium
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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby Aqualibrium » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:18 pm

There are various areas of "sports law" which include:

1. NCAA compliance and regulation - Don't even need a law degree to do this. Everyone in the athletic department will hate you. A lot of the compliance folks I know who have law degrees never practiced/never took the bar/never took the bar in the state they work in.

2. Professional and not exactly professional teams - Incredibly difficult job to get unless you know someone. Have a couple buddies who work in the legal department of NFL teams; Only way they got the job was because they knew players on the team.

3. Sports agents - Ha! If you want this job you'd better a) start being some agent's bitch right now OR b) make friends with a star athlete and hope he doesn't flake on you OR c) hope that your cousin, nephew, brother is good enough to make the league and dumb enough to hire you as his agent.

4. Boutique/big firm with sports practice - Probably the easiest to get into by virtue of the fact that firms have a defined hiring process. Still difficult because, even if you happen to get a job at a firm that does this stuff, you don't necessarily get to choose your own assignments/where you'll work in a firm/who you'll work with.


This is a very difficult field to get into.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:00 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:
There are various areas of "sports law" which include:

1. NCAA compliance and regulation - Don't even need a law degree to do this. Everyone in the athletic department will hate you. A lot of the compliance folks I know who have law degrees never practiced/never took the bar/never took the bar in the state they work in.

2. Professional and not exactly professional teams - Incredibly difficult job to get unless you know someone. Have a couple buddies who work in the legal department of NFL teams; Only way they got the job was because they knew players on the team.

3. Sports agents - Ha! If you want this job you'd better a) start being some agent's bitch right now OR b) make friends with a star athlete and hope he doesn't flake on you OR c) hope that your cousin, nephew, brother is good enough to make the league and dumb enough to hire you as his agent.

4. Boutique/big firm with sports practice - Probably the easiest to get into by virtue of the fact that firms have a defined hiring process. Still difficult because, even if you happen to get a job at a firm that does this stuff, you don't necessarily get to choose your own assignments/where you'll work in a firm/who you'll work with.


This is a very difficult field to get into.


That sums it up nicely.

blsingindisguise
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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby blsingindisguise » Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:33 pm

lawfreak wrote:
blsingindisguise wrote:

LMAO!!! at "claims of dubious value". Apparently you know nothing about Cardozo, so stop wasting everyones time with you're dumbass posts of "dubious value"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You're going to learn the same basic copyright, trademark and contract law at any half-decent law school and the same entertainment law externships, and plenty of schools offer entertainment law clinics. No employer is going to care about the ranking of your "IP program." The most important thing is the overall reputation of your school. A distant second consideration might be location, assuming you want to do entertainment-related externships during the year. Wherever you go you need good grades and a demonstrated interest in the field, and unless you're one of the extremely rare people who gets into a biglaw entertainment practice, you're not going to make much to start if you can find a job at all.

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predent/prelaw
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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby predent/prelaw » Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:57 pm

blsingindisguise wrote:Just to give an example, I interned at a relatively large entertainment "boutique" -- nearly a midsized firm that focused exclusively on entertainment -- in a major market with lots of entertainment business. The firm was considered one of the best in the field. They averaged less than one hire right out of school per year, had not hired anyone out of school in the last three years, and paid (I heard) something in the range of $40000 to start.


If this is true why would these people not just work in the mail room at CAA/WM/ICM etc making 20k at least you have a chance at a better future... Also their are quite a few law school drop out sport and spot of h agents at IMG...

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Patriot1208
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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby Patriot1208 » Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:28 pm

predent/prelaw wrote:
blsingindisguise wrote:Just to give an example, I interned at a relatively large entertainment "boutique" -- nearly a midsized firm that focused exclusively on entertainment -- in a major market with lots of entertainment business. The firm was considered one of the best in the field. They averaged less than one hire right out of school per year, had not hired anyone out of school in the last three years, and paid (I heard) something in the range of $40000 to start.


If this is true why would these people not just work in the mail room at CAA/WM/ICM etc making 20k at least you have a chance at a better future... Also their are quite a few law school drop out sport and spot of h agents at IMG...

That is true and that's what people should do instead of going to law school if they want to be agents. To work on contracts as it deals with sports than that is a different question.

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Ty Webb
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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby Ty Webb » Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:25 pm

Posted this a while back and I think it bears repeating here:

This seems as good a place as any to weigh in on this topic, as I do have some insight that might be helpful to the OP and others.

Sports law in general is obviously a difficult beast to tackle. When I talk about my career aspirations, I tell people that my "down the road" goal is to work in sports. I usually add the qualifier that I am fully aware of the difficulty of that goal, and how hard it is to tame the mythical beast of "sports law".

The advice above about connections and big law are credited. I've done extensive research on what it takes to break into the world of sports, and I've come up with something of a war strategy. The best way is to have played sports at a high level. Playing pro ball, for instance, gives you an immediate in if you are among the ~10% of pro athletes that are qualified to do more than catch a ball. College experience is a helper.

Other than that, biglaw is the most common path into working with a sports team. Building an impressive resume with a solid firm before moving over is something you see occasionally, though it's still not easy. It still takes more than that. A sports law "certificate" or specialty is only helpful to the extent that you possess other relevant qualifications. It's not enough to even get you near the door.

The answer? Connections. And not just I met a guy connections. I have real, legitimate connections. I'm personally connected to the family of one Major League baseball owner and I'm friends with another owner's nephew. One of my law school professors is best friends with another MLB owner. The first connection I mentioned is one I've massaged for going on five years, and it's a family I'm comfortable calling up at any point in time for any reason. And I'm still not anywhere near the door. I'm a lot closer than I was five years ago, though.

The keys to making it are as follows, in no particular order:

* Connections to someone in a position to help you (owners, GMs, athletes)
* Being in a city where there is action (LA/NYC)
* Having a skill that can help a club in addition to your law degree (being fluent in stat-talk might help you sell a team on your ability to win arbitration hearings for them, for instance)
* Luck (mostly timing in this one - you won't get hired even with the best connections if there is no opening when you need it)
* A really good resume
---This last one is a combination of sports experience and relevant business experience. I'm personally working for a baseball club this summer (1L) on a gig that was set up by the family mentioned above. I'll hope to follow that up with a biglaw 2L summer and then hopefully 5-7 years of biglaw experience. At that point, I'll have a resume that shows some ability to work with clients and conduct myself in a corporate setting along with some experience working in the game. If at that point there's some way for me to use my then 10-12 year relationships to transition into a job in sports, I'll do it. By that point, I will hopefully have saved enough money working in biglaw that I can even take a position that pays less so that I can chase my passion.

If that doesn't work out, I'll enjoy my work other wise. This is just one man's plan for war-gaming the system. What you should take from this is that it's very hard. I've been blessed with as money a connection in the world of sports as anyone could ask for (short of growing up with LeBron James) and it will still take a lot of maneuvering on my part. Even though these people like me, I'll have to provide them something for it to work. They don't get to own big league ball teams by making stupid, irrational hires.

You should (as I am) plan for something different. Can you work in sports? Maybe. Will you get there by studying sports and entertainment law? No, not on that alone.

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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:58 pm

I am also interested in sports/entertainment stuff. I don't have any connections, but I am making it work.

First, if you're interested in working with a team, you may need to have connections because teams have maybe one general counsel on staff. There's not a ton of turnover, so you will have to do a lot of work for them (clinics, internships, etc). Basically as much free work as you are able. If you'd like to work with a league, the options are a bit more open, though not from Loyola or Pepperdine. MLB hires 1Ls each summer, but they go to Top 5 law schools. Most of the people who join the MLB offices have worked at Proskauer. If you want to work for the NFL, you'd be well off if you worked at Covington since they do a bunch of the NFL's work. It's unlikely you'd make it to these firms from Loyola or Pepperdine.

If you want to be an agent, then you can go through law school, but if you hope to work for a large agency (e.g., WME, CAA, etc), then just know that you have to go through the agent training program, which means you have to start in the mailroom and be someone's bitch. It's sort of demoralizing after spending 3 years and thousands of dollars on law school.

I'm interested in sports, but think I may want to do entertainment. I asked someone in the legal department of a major studio in LA which firms they generally use for outside counsel. They said Skadden LA and O'Melveny. You can get a job at OMM from Loyola, but I they don't interview at Pepperdine. I'm sure you have to be a top student at Loyola to get the OMM spot.

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lawfreak
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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby lawfreak » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:23 pm

By the way for the duche bag who said I'm giving bad advice, the president of the Florida Marlins, David Samson, is an alumni of Cardozo. Eat that!!

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Verity
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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby Verity » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:28 pm

lawfreak wrote:By the way for the duche bag who said I'm giving bad advice, the president of the Florida Marlins, David Samson, is an alumni of Cardozo. Eat that!!


Maybe you won't get banned for insulting a mod, seeing as how your insult was misspelled.

danielle9281
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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby danielle9281 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:29 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
mm12 wrote:I was just wondering what the employment outlook is like for the entertainment and sports law industry (starting salaries, # of jobs, etc.) coming from a school like loyola/pepperdine?

Image



Funny~

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby FeelTheHeat » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:29 pm

lawfreak wrote:By the way for the duche bag who said I'm giving bad advice, the president of the Florida Marlins, David Samson, is an alumni of Cardozo. Eat that!!


Funnier lol

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Patriot1208
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Re: Entertainment and Sports Law Employment Prospects

Postby Patriot1208 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:35 pm

FeelTheHeat wrote:
lawfreak wrote:By the way for the duche bag who said I'm giving bad advice, the president of the Florida Marlins, David Samson, is an alumni of Cardozo. Eat that!!


Funnier lol

That post basically sums up the reason he has to attend that cardozo




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