Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

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nihilism is key
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Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby nihilism is key » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:37 am

How common is it for law firms to look at college grades during OCI in your 1L year? Does this hold true for OCI in the beginning of your 2L year? Or do they tend to focus solely on your performance during your 1L year? Assume top firms recruiting within the t-14.

Note: Originally posted in the Law School Admissions Forum but thought I might get more knowledgeable responses in this one

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misterbingley
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Re: Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby misterbingley » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:42 am

Would love to hear responses to this as well.

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Sauer Grapes
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Re: Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby Sauer Grapes » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:43 am

Can't comment on 1L summer, but for 2L summer, not common at all. In fact, I didn't hear of anyone having their UG grades mentioned. I had magna on my resume, so maybe they looked at it, maybe not.

Kick butt during 1L and you'll be fine regardless of your UG grades.

spondee
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Re: Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby spondee » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:45 am

Yeah, in the 30 or so screening interviews I went on for 2L OCI, no one asked about undergrad grades. No one did during CBs either.

Sup Kid
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Re: Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby Sup Kid » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:48 am

In something like 35 screeners and 10 callbacks, I was NEVER asked for my undergrad GPA (or really to talk about undergrad at all). The GPA is on my resume, so they probably saw it, but since they didn't want a transcript or anything I doubt it was used for anything.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby Blindmelon » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:55 am

Maybe it depends on the market - all of my CBs wanted undergrad transcripts and maybe about a third of the screeners required them.

Some firms are notorious for being UG prestige-whores along with LS. Those with Yale/Harvard UG here seemingly outperformed their class-rank, but it was probably only a tip in one direction or another. Your LS grades are much, much, much more important, but I think PBK or summa at a good UG can definitely help.

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Cupidity
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Re: Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby Cupidity » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:57 am

There are a few firms who care about college pedigree and GPA. Ropes Boston does, no idea on Ropes NY. One of the other Boston firms, it's either K&L or Bingham (can't remember which) actually asks for your LSAT score. Although these firms do factor in these variables, they are nothing that can't be overcome, and they are really just used to distinguish between similar candidates.

imchuckbass58
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Re: Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby imchuckbass58 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:09 pm

Cravath asks everyone to bring undergrad transcripts. So does Munger. Unclear how prominently it figures in.

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RVP11
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Re: Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby RVP11 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:35 pm

In 25+ screening interviews I was only asked once. And despite my UG grades being mediocre (sub-3.5), I still got a callback with the firm, so it's unlikely they mattered too much.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby Blindmelon » Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:52 pm

Cupidity wrote:There are a few firms who care about college pedigree and GPA. Ropes Boston does, no idea on Ropes NY. One of the other Boston firms, it's either K&L or Bingham (can't remember which) actually asks for your LSAT score. Although these firms do factor in these variables, they are nothing that can't be overcome, and they are really just used to distinguish between similar candidates.


I got CBs at Bingham and K&L and neither requested my LSAT score. Ropes Boston is definitely one of those that cares about UG.

Kretzy
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Re: Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby Kretzy » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:45 pm

I did 5 CBs for 1L SA positions; I'd say 75% of firms asked for my UG transcript, and a grand total of 0 attorneys asked me any questions about it.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:47 pm

Kretzy wrote:...I'd say 75% of firms asked for my UG transcript, and a grand total of 0 attorneys asked me any questions about it.


+1 similar experience

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icouldbuyu
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Re: Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby icouldbuyu » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:50 pm

So, graduating summa might actually have real implications? I figured it would be some useless designation my parents could brag about.

xyzbca
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Re: Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby xyzbca » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:19 pm

Kretzy and DoubleChecks:

Were your 1L grades available when the firms requested your UG transcripts?

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wiseowl
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Re: Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby wiseowl » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:22 pm

It can matter bigtime for IP. Not so much for non-IP. People can generally tell from what law school you're at what your grades and LSAT were like without you having to say it.

Kretzy
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Re: Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby Kretzy » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:32 pm

xyzbca wrote:Kretzy and DoubleChecks:

Were your 1L grades available when the firms requested your UG transcripts?


Mine were, yes.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:06 pm

xyzbca wrote:Kretzy and DoubleChecks:

Were your 1L grades available when the firms requested your UG transcripts?


for me, actually no, but all my CBs were before grades came out and I even got my offer before grades, so i dont know what would have happened in hypothetical post-grade CB situations lol

Anonymous User
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Re: Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:12 pm

I put my relatively low-3.4 and low prestigious major-marketing undergrad GPA on my resume and two of my screening interviewers asked about it since my 1L GPA was top 5%. I was shooting for a smaller market and I think my undergraduate record may have a made a difference, especially as all the firms I was applying to had like 2-3 summer associate openings.

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Re: Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:52 pm

When I interviewed for 1L SA jobs, firms (Hogan, Kirkland, Sidley) asked for my law school grades when they arrived, but did not ask for anything from UG.

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SOCRATiC
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Re: Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby SOCRATiC » Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:07 am

wiseowl wrote:It can matter bigtime for IP. Not so much for non-IP. People can generally tell from what law school you're at what your grades and LSAT were like without you having to say it.


0L IP hopeful here, and I read about this too. Somewhere on these forums I read how an interview got canceled after sending in UG transcripts; I think it's because the firm cared whether the person actually had technical expertise, though.

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BioEBear2010
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Re: Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby BioEBear2010 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:27 am

SOCRATiC wrote:
wiseowl wrote:It can matter bigtime for IP. Not so much for non-IP. People can generally tell from what law school you're at what your grades and LSAT were like without you having to say it.


0L IP hopeful here, and I read about this too. Somewhere on these forums I read how an interview got canceled after sending in UG transcripts; I think it's because the firm cared whether the person actually had technical expertise, though.

I can somewhat attest to this. Attorneys at the CBs I had all asked what tech courses I had taken (even though these were for IP lit). I doubt they examined my grades; rather, they wanted to know if I had knowledge of tech areas.

Master Tofu
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Re: Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby Master Tofu » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:57 am

Asking for a UG transcript doesn't necessarily mean that the firms will use it for the hiring process though. I suspect that the UG transcripts are more used for the purpose of risk management than actually merit assessment.

Anonymous User
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Re: Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:01 am

Cupidity wrote:There are a few firms who care about college pedigree and GPA. Ropes Boston does, no idea on Ropes NY. One of the other Boston firms, it's either K&L or Bingham (can't remember which) actually asks for your LSAT score. Although these firms do factor in these variables, they are nothing that can't be overcome, and they are really just used to distinguish between similar candidates.


Ropes NY does. A lot. I had a partner there who was pulling for me after my callback, and he explicitly told me that my undergrad GPA made his efforts an uphill battle (I was a splitter - very bad UGPA). I ended up not getting an offer from R&G, and I'm 80% sure it was because of my UGPA.

Of my 10+ other callbacks, nobody asked for UGPA. A lot of judges do though.

Anonymous User
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Re: Law Firm Hiring and College Grades

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:51 am

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:A lot of judges do though.

Interesting. My experience was different, in that only about 10% of the judges I applied to wanted undergrad grades. This may vary by region, court type, or other factors, though.

Doing a quick CTRL+F through my application spreadsheet, 12/35 judges in one of my targeted regions request a UG transcript. Doing another CTRL+F through a spreadsheet for a different region, only 5/~65 request it.

I think you're right. It seems to be somewhat regional. It also seems like most that request it are district courts.




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