sexual harassment?

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Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: sexual harassment?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:13 pm

OP wrote:
2LLLL wrote:Ugh, went and wrote out a whole response when it turns out this is a flame.

I had a feeling it was fishy when OP didn't say whether she received an offer from the firm after that summer...


Actually I am asking this because I am pondering if I want to go back to the firm.
I will likely work on the same floor with him, and I cannot stand that.

And sorry about the confusion, see my PM. This is not my account.



OP, if you are considering working there again, I cannot stress enough my earlier advice that you should protect yourself: please consider documenting what happened and contacting an advocacy organization. You're definitely not alone in experiencing this, and it could help to get more advice from the people who work on these issues.
Try:
Trans & Queer Wellness Initiative
--LinkRemoved--
New York City Alliance Against Sexual Assault
http://www.svfreenyc.org/

And, OP, you don't have to defend yourself to the people who are doubting you. It's really unfortunate that they're questioning your story.

HITeacher2
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: sexual harassment?

Postby HITeacher2 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:14 pm

Wow, this thread has taken on such a dark turn. Wothli, you should be ashamed of yourself, sexual harassment isn't funny and that you're making light of it in a plea for attention is absolutely despicable.

Anonymous User
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:On 2/25/2011 you posted:


Lol @ edited for clarity


Best way to describe it :).

Anonymous User
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:15 pm

HITeacher2 wrote:Wow, this thread has taken on such a dark turn. Wothli, you should be ashamed of yourself, sexual harassment isn't funny and that you're making light of it in a plea for attention is absolutely despicable.


Are you serious? You're ASSUMING that the OP isn't being genuine.

MMags
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:40 pm

Re: sexual harassment?

Postby MMags » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:17 pm

Why is it then that the only person jumping to her defense is another anon??

wothli
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:32 am

Re: sexual harassment?

Postby wothli » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:18 pm

HITeacher2 wrote:Wow, this thread has taken on such a dark turn. Wothli, you should be ashamed of yourself, sexual harassment isn't funny and that you're making light of it in a plea for attention is absolutely despicable.


This is NOT my account. I have never used this site before, so that's why I don't really know how to turn on anonymous. The owner of the account is wothli, and she says that it would be helpful if I can use the forum for some advice.
I am sorry for the confusion.
And you are absolutely right: my situation is very grave, and it is not funny at all.

Anonymous User
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:19 pm

MMags wrote:Why is it then that the only person jumping to her defense is another anon??


I'm staying anonymous so that if the OP says they want some serious advice about this issue, I can contact them, and they won't need to fear all of TLS knowing who they have been talking to.

Anonymous User
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
MMags wrote:Why is it then that the only person jumping to her defense is another anon??


I'm staying anonymous so that if the OP says they want some serious advice about this issue, I can contact them, and they won't need to fear all of TLS knowing who they have been talking to.


Also, I am posting with the account that I actually use on TLS; I didn't create a new account for this. The moderators can tell, and I definitely don't have anything further to prove to you.

/this part of the conversation

wothli
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:32 am

Re: sexual harassment?

Postby wothli » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:23 pm

MMags wrote:Why is it then that the only person jumping to her defense is another anon??

I don't understand what you are getting at.

wothli
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:32 am

Re: sexual harassment?

Postby wothli » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
OP wrote:
2LLLL wrote:Ugh, went and wrote out a whole response when it turns out this is a flame.

I had a feeling it was fishy when OP didn't say whether she received an offer from the firm after that summer...


Actually I am asking this because I am pondering if I want to go back to the firm.
I will likely work on the same floor with him, and I cannot stand that.

And sorry about the confusion, see my PM. This is not my account.



OP, if you are considering working there again, I cannot stress enough my earlier advice that you should protect yourself: please consider documenting what happened and contacting an advocacy organization. You're definitely not alone in experiencing this, and it could help to get more advice from the people who work on these issues.
Try:
Trans & Queer Wellness Initiative
--LinkRemoved--
New York City Alliance Against Sexual Assault
http://www.svfreenyc.org/

And, OP, you don't have to defend yourself to the people who are doubting you. It's really unfortunate that they're questioning your story.


thank you so much for telling me this information. Your support means a lot to me.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: sexual harassment?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:30 pm

... wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm very sorry that you've had to go through this. Sexual harassment (which this clearly is) is wrong in any situation. Additionally, the fact that he is using your sexual orientation to further oppress you makes this all the worse. It's both sexual harassment, discrimination based on your sexual orientation, and, given that it escalated to physical contact, it's sexual assault. What he's done is clearly wrong and unlawful, and if he said something that made you feel guilty or blame yourself for this action, he's lying. Nothing you do could warrant someone assaulting and harassing you; you don't deserve any blame.

I'm glad to see that you're asking questions about this; it shows a lot of strength on your part. I'm not going to tell you what to do: it's your choice, and I don't believe me making that decision for you will lead to empowering you. However the best advice I can offer is to protect yourself. Regardless of whether or not you choose to report, please, please, please start documenting what has happened. Something as simple as:
1. January 2, 2011 or thereabouts: X, Y, Z happened.
2. January 3, 2011 or thereabouts: X, Y, Z happened.
If you choose to report this later, this document will be very helpful in proving your case. If you choose not to report (which is absolutely your prerogative), you've done some work that could help you achieve some piece or mind. Additionally, maybe you're feeling hesitant now. If you learned in the future that there were a case against him, would you want to add your experience to that case? This document would help.

If you decide that you want to report, please come back to this thread and let us know. I'd be happy to help you, whatever you decide. You may want to contact an advocacy organization in your area that assists survivors of sexual harassment, discrimination, and/or sexual assault. They can provide a victim advocate for you who will advocate for YOUR best interests and counseling if you'd like.


Thank you so much. I will have to admit that at this point, I am hesitant about whether I want to report him. I will return to his firm again after graduation - that is if I accept the offer, and I doubt if he will do a similar thing once I return.
One of the reasons I am doubtful about this is that he seems to have no prior reputation of the sort; the female partner I talked to said that he is respectable.
Am I the only one going through this?

Thank you so much for your support. I actually cried so much over this - I even cried once right in front of him, and I hate myself for doing that.


Please don't feel ashamed for your part in any of this! Again, someone else CHOSE to assault and harass you. You couldn't have done ANYTHING to warrant this.

My advice is the same: document (on a computer) what happened so that at the very least you'll have a record.

If you are considering going back there, it's really important that you have a plan of action. I'm glad that you doubt that he wouldn't do this again, but again you may feel better having a plan of action (this is what I tell survivors of domestic violence who return to the abusive relationship).

My best advice is to contact an advocacy/support organization. They are the ones who know NY law and who will work for you and your best interests, whether or not you report. I'm from California (similar laws to NY, but obviously not exact), so I am not familiar with the organizations in New York, but I will keep looking. I did post 2 links earlier that may be helpful.

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ResolutePear
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby ResolutePear » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:32 pm

The problem with harassment is, you seldom have proof.

What you're describing is sexual battery - provided this happened in NY, btw.

Anonymous User
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:35 pm

ResolutePear wrote:The problem with harassment is, you seldom have proof.

What you're describing is sexual battery - provided this happened in NY, btw.


Absolutely. The actions that the OP described were both sexual harassment and sexual assault.

Again, documenting the sexual harassment will help.

wothli
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:32 am

Re: sexual harassment?

Postby wothli » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
... wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm very sorry that you've had to go through this. Sexual harassment (which this clearly is) is wrong in any situation. Additionally, the fact that he is using your sexual orientation to further oppress you makes this all the worse. It's both sexual harassment, discrimination based on your sexual orientation, and, given that it escalated to physical contact, it's sexual assault. What he's done is clearly wrong and unlawful, and if he said something that made you feel guilty or blame yourself for this action, he's lying. Nothing you do could warrant someone assaulting and harassing you; you don't deserve any blame.

I'm glad to see that you're asking questions about this; it shows a lot of strength on your part. I'm not going to tell you what to do: it's your choice, and I don't believe me making that decision for you will lead to empowering you. However the best advice I can offer is to protect yourself. Regardless of whether or not you choose to report, please, please, please start documenting what has happened. Something as simple as:
1. January 2, 2011 or thereabouts: X, Y, Z happened.
2. January 3, 2011 or thereabouts: X, Y, Z happened.
If you choose to report this later, this document will be very helpful in proving your case. If you choose not to report (which is absolutely your prerogative), you've done some work that could help you achieve some piece or mind. Additionally, maybe you're feeling hesitant now. If you learned in the future that there were a case against him, would you want to add your experience to that case? This document would help.

If you decide that you want to report, please come back to this thread and let us know. I'd be happy to help you, whatever you decide. You may want to contact an advocacy organization in your area that assists survivors of sexual harassment, discrimination, and/or sexual assault. They can provide a victim advocate for you who will advocate for YOUR best interests and counseling if you'd like.


Thank you so much. I will have to admit that at this point, I am hesitant about whether I want to report him. I will return to his firm again after graduation - that is if I accept the offer, and I doubt if he will do a similar thing once I return.
One of the reasons I am doubtful about this is that he seems to have no prior reputation of the sort; the female partner I talked to said that he is respectable.
Am I the only one going through this?

Thank you so much for your support. I actually cried so much over this - I even cried once right in front of him, and I hate myself for doing that.


Please don't feel ashamed for your part in any of this! Again, someone else CHOSE to assault and harass you. You couldn't have done ANYTHING to warrant this.

My advice is the same: document (on a computer) what happened so that at the very least you'll have a record.

If you are considering going back there, it's really important that you have a plan of action. I'm glad that you doubt that he wouldn't do this again, but again you may feel better having a plan of action (this is what I tell survivors of domestic violence who return to the abusive relationship).

My best advice is to contact an advocacy/support organization. They are the ones who know NY law and who will work for you and your best interests, whether or not you report. I'm from California (similar laws to NY, but obviously not exact), so I am not familiar with the organizations in New York, but I will keep looking. I did post 2 links earlier that may be helpful.


If only I had a choice, I would not want to go back there. But it seems that it is not the case. So yes, I probably I will return. And I hope that he will get bored, and move on - hopefully not to someone else.

wothli
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:32 am

Re: sexual harassment?

Postby wothli » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:The problem with harassment is, you seldom have proof.

What you're describing is sexual battery - provided this happened in NY, btw.


Absolutely. The actions that the OP described were both sexual harassment and sexual assault.

Again, documenting the sexual harassment will help.


When you say documenting? Do you mean recording his voice? Or just whatever that has happened?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: sexual harassment?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:51 pm

... wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
... wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm very sorry that you've had to go through this. Sexual harassment (which this clearly is) is wrong in any situation. Additionally, the fact that he is using your sexual orientation to further oppress you makes this all the worse. It's both sexual harassment, discrimination based on your sexual orientation, and, given that it escalated to physical contact, it's sexual assault. What he's done is clearly wrong and unlawful, and if he said something that made you feel guilty or blame yourself for this action, he's lying. Nothing you do could warrant someone assaulting and harassing you; you don't deserve any blame.

I'm glad to see that you're asking questions about this; it shows a lot of strength on your part. I'm not going to tell you what to do: it's your choice, and I don't believe me making that decision for you will lead to empowering you. However the best advice I can offer is to protect yourself. Regardless of whether or not you choose to report, please, please, please start documenting what has happened. Something as simple as:
1. January 2, 2011 or thereabouts: X, Y, Z happened.
2. January 3, 2011 or thereabouts: X, Y, Z happened.
If you choose to report this later, this document will be very helpful in proving your case. If you choose not to report (which is absolutely your prerogative), you've done some work that could help you achieve some piece or mind. Additionally, maybe you're feeling hesitant now. If you learned in the future that there were a case against him, would you want to add your experience to that case? This document would help.

If you decide that you want to report, please come back to this thread and let us know. I'd be happy to help you, whatever you decide. You may want to contact an advocacy organization in your area that assists survivors of sexual harassment, discrimination, and/or sexual assault. They can provide a victim advocate for you who will advocate for YOUR best interests and counseling if you'd like.


Thank you so much. I will have to admit that at this point, I am hesitant about whether I want to report him. I will return to his firm again after graduation - that is if I accept the offer, and I doubt if he will do a similar thing once I return.
One of the reasons I am doubtful about this is that he seems to have no prior reputation of the sort; the female partner I talked to said that he is respectable.
Am I the only one going through this?

Thank you so much for your support. I actually cried so much over this - I even cried once right in front of him, and I hate myself for doing that.


Please don't feel ashamed for your part in any of this! Again, someone else CHOSE to assault and harass you. You couldn't have done ANYTHING to warrant this.

My advice is the same: document (on a computer) what happened so that at the very least you'll have a record.

If you are considering going back there, it's really important that you have a plan of action. I'm glad that you doubt that he wouldn't do this again, but again you may feel better having a plan of action (this is what I tell survivors of domestic violence who return to the abusive relationship).

My best advice is to contact an advocacy/support organization. They are the ones who know NY law and who will work for you and your best interests, whether or not you report. I'm from California (similar laws to NY, but obviously not exact), so I am not familiar with the organizations in New York, but I will keep looking. I did post 2 links earlier that may be helpful.


If only I had a choice, I would not want to go back there. But it seems that it is not the case. So yes, I probably I will return. And I hope that he will get bored, and move on - hopefully not to someone else.


My concern is for you to feel safe emotionally, physically, and spiritually and to actually BE safe. If he has not received some kind of treatment for his behavior (e.g., harasser/assailant's counseling, etc.), I am not sure if he will have changed. And I would not want your safety and well-being to be at risk. Again, I think it's best for you to have a plan if you go back and a plan if you don't.

Here are some other helpful links:
SAVI : Mount Sinai Sexual Assault and Violence Intervention Program
http://www.svfreenyc.org/resource_7.html
Gay and Lesbian Anti-Violence Project
http://www.svfreenyc.org/resource_27.html
New York City Alliance Against Sexual Assault's list of resources in New York
http://www.svfreenyc.org/resource_list2_New_York.html
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ResolutePear
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby ResolutePear » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:51 pm

wothli wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:The problem with harassment is, you seldom have proof.

What you're describing is sexual battery - provided this happened in NY, btw.


Absolutely. The actions that the OP described were both sexual harassment and sexual assault.

Again, documenting the sexual harassment will help.


When you say documenting? Do you mean recording his voice? Or just whatever that has happened?


I don't think this thread is going to help you.

Go to the police, talk with a detective who is knowledgable in this without giving names - just make sure they don't have a 'Compel to Report' statue.

Otherwise, go to a lawyer who handles these types of cases.

Either way, you're going to fuck yourself if you keep getting advice for this from this board.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: sexual harassment?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:56 pm

... wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:The problem with harassment is, you seldom have proof.

What you're describing is sexual battery - provided this happened in NY, btw.


Absolutely. The actions that the OP described were both sexual harassment and sexual assault.

Again, documenting the sexual harassment will help.


When you say documenting? Do you mean recording his voice? Or just whatever that has happened?



By documenting, I mean type each incident.
1. On XXXX, 2010, [the man's name] saw my partner and me holding hands....
2. On XXXX, 2010 [the man's name] came into my office and....
Keep going until you've typed everything. Save the document for your piece of mind and uses. Contact one of the advocacy organizations that I have listed. As ResolutePear said, they would be able to help you more than us. I think it would be better to contact an advocacy organization first: they can support you whether or not you choose to report. An attorney is supposed to represent you in an actual case. The advocacy organizations can put you in contact with other resources (counselors, attorneys, therapy dogs :) ) if you want them.

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ResolutePear
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby ResolutePear » Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:therapy dogs :)


WHAT THE FUCK. I WANT A THERAPY DOG...

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: sexual harassment?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:04 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:therapy dogs :)


WHAT THE FUCK. I WANT A THERAPY DOG...


Yeah, some organizations and DA offices here in California have them. I met one the other day, actually. They can go to court with the survivor, sometimes sit in the witness stand, or just be there for the survivor to pet. :)

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ResolutePear
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby ResolutePear » Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:therapy dogs :)


WHAT THE FUCK. I WANT A THERAPY DOG...


Yeah, some organizations and DA offices here in California have them. I met one the other day, actually. They can go to court with the survivor, sometimes sit in the witness stand, or just be there for the survivor to pet. :)


Can you just see the irony in somebody getting mauled by his or her therapy dog? God forbid it never happens, but hey.. I guess I'm just dark like that.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: sexual harassment?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:13 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:therapy dogs :)


WHAT THE FUCK. I WANT A THERAPY DOG...


Yeah, some organizations and DA offices here in California have them. I met one the other day, actually. They can go to court with the survivor, sometimes sit in the witness stand, or just be there for the survivor to pet. :)


Can you just see the irony in somebody getting mauled by his or her therapy dog? God forbid it never happens, but hey.. I guess I'm just dark like that.


Ummmm....

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: sexual harassment?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:23 pm

Nightrunner wrote:Look -

Those of you calling "flame" lack sufficient evidence, and the fact is that OP does not seem to be doing anything other than asking for advice, which would be a pretty weak troll, if it were a troll.

If you feel that this thread is not true, then don't participate in it. But stop shitting it up with accusations, reports, and random off-topic statements. Participate kindly or GTFO.

Thanks,

MGMT


THANK YOU!!!

wothli
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:32 am

Re: sexual harassment?

Postby wothli » Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
... wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
... wrote:My concern is for you to feel safe emotionally, physically, and spiritually and to actually BE safe. If he has not received some kind of treatment for his behavior (e.g., harasser/assailant's counseling, etc.), I am not sure if he will have changed. And I would not want your safety and well-being to be at risk. Again, I think it's best for you to have a plan if you go back and a plan if you don't.

Here are some other helpful links:
SAVI : Mount Sinai Sexual Assault and Violence Intervention Program
http://www.svfreenyc.org/resource_7.html
Gay and Lesbian Anti-Violence Project
http://www.svfreenyc.org/resource_27.html
New York City Alliance Against Sexual Assault's list of resources in New York
http://www.svfreenyc.org/resource_list2_New_York.html



Thank you so much for giving me all this information!
I feel so much better to know that people actually CARE.

At this point, I am afraid that going to any of these organizations is going to escalate the issue. As I said, he is pretty powerful and respectable in the field - with no knowing record of anything like this. I don't know if I will be in a good situation if I just go and report to these groups.
The reason I am saying this is that he can just go to other friends and partners, and say "this girl has no potential" - then I will pretty much be dead in the BigLaw business.
I hope that he will stop, and realize that this is immoral.

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ResolutePear
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby ResolutePear » Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:05 pm

wothli wrote:I hope that he will stop, and realize that this is immoral.


Or he might just rape you.

No worries, inaction is definitely TCR here.




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