sexual harassment?

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Anonymous User
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sexual harassment?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:43 am

I was a summer associate at a top 10 NYC law firm, and I am a lesbian.
One of the managing partners saw me holding hands with my girlfriend on the street by accident - so I think he sort of knows that I am a lesbian. (I don't really know if it is related with sexual harassment.)

He started walking into my office, first it was casual conversations; then it became touching me carelessly; then he started touching my legs, my chest, my behind, and etc.
One time it escalated to him kissing me on the mouth, while I was trying to push him away.

It went on for the entire summer, and I started trying to fight him off; but one time, he jokingly said to me: do you think it is that easy for a lesbian to find a job at a large law firm?
(I am not out in the office.) Then he said that his connections will make sure I cannot get a job any where in town except in the public defender office.

I really don't know what to do.

Anonymous User
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:I was a summer associate at a top 10 NYC law firm, and I am a lesbian.
One of the managing partners saw me holding hands with my girlfriend on the street by accident - so I think he sort of knows that I am a lesbian. (I don't really know if it is related with sexual harassment.)

He started walking into my office, first it was casual conversations; then it became touching me carelessly; then he started touching my legs, my chest, my behind, and etc.
One time it escalated to him kissing me on the mouth, while I was trying to push him away.

It went on for the entire summer, and I started trying to fight him off; but one time, he jokingly said to me: do you think it is that easy for a lesbian to find a job at a large law firm?
(I am not out in the office.) Then he said that his connections will make sure I cannot get a job any where in town except in the public defender office.

I really don't know what to do.

I've been in a similar position and I'm very sorry for what you're going through.

There is never an easy answer here but I decided that I loved myself enough to report what was happening. You don't deserve it and no one has the right to touch you like that without your consent.

HITeacher2
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby HITeacher2 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:13 am

Document everything and approach the ombudsman or a female partner with what's been going on - if there are no female partners, or if they aren't concerned, get ready to escalate from there. This behavior on behalf of the MP is absolutely unacceptable and puts the reputation of the firm into peril. The fallout from this going public on ATL or going to court would be a disaster for them, and they know that, so I have a feeling they'll listen to your concerns. Above all else, though, document with diligence.

Anonymous User
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:15 am

You should report this shameful behavior. Don't listen to his threats about barring you from working in any law firm. That is a trick that he is using to force your compliance. Its like what a kidnapped says to the victim, that if he/she tries to escape, there will be consequences. However the kidnapped often doesn't actually have the power to bring about those consequences. Its just something he says to create doubt in the vicim's mind and ensure full compliance. Don't buy that BS. No one deserves to be treated like that. Report his ass

2LLLL
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby 2LLLL » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:29 am

You said:

I was a summer associate at a top 10 NYC law firm, and I am a lesbian.


So I'm assuming this took place last summer (2010) as a 2L?

Did you get an offer for post-graduation employment from the firm?

If not, then you probably should consult with an attorney, though your case is probably not a winner. If the firm is following best practices, which a V10 probably is, then it assembled a folder on you documenting performance-related reasons for your no-offer, which will make it harder for you to say that the no-offer was caused by the harrassment.

If you did get an offer there and are starting this fall, then I would take a wait and see approach. Maybe the partner has gotten bored and moved onto someone else, or maybe his conduct has come to light and he has been warned and chastened. If he starts up with this behavior once you start at the firm, then you do need to document each occasion of harrassment and possibly utilize any kind of intrafirm procedure for reporting these incidents.

Anonymous User
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:34 am

I'm very sorry that you've had to go through this. Sexual harassment (which this clearly is) is wrong in any situation. Additionally, the fact that he is using your sexual orientation to further oppress you makes this all the worse. It's both sexual harassment, discrimination based on your sexual orientation, and, given that it escalated to physical contact, it's sexual assault. What he's done is clearly wrong and unlawful, and if he said something that made you feel guilty or blame yourself for this action, he's lying. Nothing you do could warrant someone assaulting and harassing you; you don't deserve any blame.

I'm glad to see that you're asking questions about this; it shows a lot of strength on your part. I'm not going to tell you what to do: it's your choice, and I don't believe me making that decision for you will lead to empowering you. However the best advice I can offer is to protect yourself. Regardless of whether or not you choose to report, please, please, please start documenting what has happened. Something as simple as:
1. January 2, 2011 or thereabouts: X, Y, Z happened.
2. January 3, 2011 or thereabouts: X, Y, Z happened.
If you choose to report this later, this document will be very helpful in proving your case. If you choose not to report (which is absolutely your prerogative), you've done some work that could help you achieve some piece or mind. Additionally, maybe you're feeling hesitant now. If you learned in the future that there were a case against him, would you want to add your experience to that case? This document would help.

If you decide that you want to report, please come back to this thread and let us know. I'd be happy to help you, whatever you decide. You may want to contact an advocacy organization in your area that assists survivors of sexual harassment, discrimination, and/or sexual assault. They can provide a victim advocate for you who will advocate for YOUR best interests and counseling if you'd like.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Objection
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby Objection » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:38 am

2LLLL wrote:
If you did get an offer there and are starting this fall, then I would take a wait and see approach. Maybe the partner has gotten bored and moved onto someone else, or maybe his conduct has come to light and he has been warned and chastened.


This is awful advice, and someone should slap you in the mouth for giving it.

I hope for your sake you're trolling.

OP: I'd suggest reporting it to some higher ups, and possibly consult with an attorney. You could always shoot an email to Catherine MacKinnon at HLS, who basically invented the sexual harassment claim. Not necessarily for representation, but for advice. I'm sure she would have no problems giving it.

Do you really wanna work at a place that either condones this behavior or punishes you if you report it?

But it's totally your call, obviously.

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dpk711
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby dpk711 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:43 am

Do the right thing -- report him and teach this guy a lesson.

wothli
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby wothli » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:46 am

Objection wrote:
2LLLL wrote:
If you did get an offer there and are starting this fall, then I would take a wait and see approach. Maybe the partner has gotten bored and moved onto someone else, or maybe his conduct has come to light and he has been warned and chastened.


This is awful advice, and someone should slap you in the mouth for giving it.

I hope for your sake you're trolling.

OP: I'd suggest reporting it to some higher ups, and possibly consult with an attorney. You could always shoot an email to Catherine MacKinnon at HLS, who basically invented the sexual harassment claim. Not necessarily for representation, but for advice. I'm sure she would have no problems giving it.

Do you really wanna work at a place that either condones this behavior or punishes you if you report it?

But it's totally your call, obviously.


Thanks, that's great advice. I am still a bit hesitant, to be honest. I will consult Professor Mackinnon.
Last edited by wothli on Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

wothli
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby wothli » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:51 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm very sorry that you've had to go through this. Sexual harassment (which this clearly is) is wrong in any situation. Additionally, the fact that he is using your sexual orientation to further oppress you makes this all the worse. It's both sexual harassment, discrimination based on your sexual orientation, and, given that it escalated to physical contact, it's sexual assault. What he's done is clearly wrong and unlawful, and if he said something that made you feel guilty or blame yourself for this action, he's lying. Nothing you do could warrant someone assaulting and harassing you; you don't deserve any blame.

I'm glad to see that you're asking questions about this; it shows a lot of strength on your part. I'm not going to tell you what to do: it's your choice, and I don't believe me making that decision for you will lead to empowering you. However the best advice I can offer is to protect yourself. Regardless of whether or not you choose to report, please, please, please start documenting what has happened. Something as simple as:
1. January 2, 2011 or thereabouts: X, Y, Z happened.
2. January 3, 2011 or thereabouts: X, Y, Z happened.
If you choose to report this later, this document will be very helpful in proving your case. If you choose not to report (which is absolutely your prerogative), you've done some work that could help you achieve some piece or mind. Additionally, maybe you're feeling hesitant now. If you learned in the future that there were a case against him, would you want to add your experience to that case? This document would help.

If you decide that you want to report, please come back to this thread and let us know. I'd be happy to help you, whatever you decide. You may want to contact an advocacy organization in your area that assists survivors of sexual harassment, discrimination, and/or sexual assault. They can provide a victim advocate for you who will advocate for YOUR best interests and counseling if you'd like.


Thank you so much. I will have to admit that at this point, I am hesitant about whether I want to report him. I will return to his firm again after graduation - that is if I accept the offer, and I doubt if he will do a similar thing once I return.
One of the reasons I am doubtful about this is that he seems to have no prior reputation of the sort; the female partner I talked to said that he is respectable.
Am I the only one going through this?

Thank you so much for your support. I actually cried so much over this - I even cried once right in front of him, and I hate myself for doing that.

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baboon309
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby baboon309 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:54 am

wothli wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm very sorry that you've had to go through this. Sexual harassment (which this clearly is) is wrong in any situation. Additionally, the fact that he is using your sexual orientation to further oppress you makes this all the worse. It's both sexual harassment, discrimination based on your sexual orientation, and, given that it escalated to physical contact, it's sexual assault. What he's done is clearly wrong and unlawful, and if he said something that made you feel guilty or blame yourself for this action, he's lying. Nothing you do could warrant someone assaulting and harassing you; you don't deserve any blame.

I'm glad to see that you're asking questions about this; it shows a lot of strength on your part. I'm not going to tell you what to do: it's your choice, and I don't believe me making that decision for you will lead to empowering you. However the best advice I can offer is to protect yourself. Regardless of whether or not you choose to report, please, please, please start documenting what has happened. Something as simple as:
1. January 2, 2011 or thereabouts: X, Y, Z happened.
2. January 3, 2011 or thereabouts: X, Y, Z happened.
If you choose to report this later, this document will be very helpful in proving your case. If you choose not to report (which is absolutely your prerogative), you've done some work that could help you achieve some piece or mind. Additionally, maybe you're feeling hesitant now. If you learned in the future that there were a case against him, would you want to add your experience to that case? This document would help.

If you decide that you want to report, please come back to this thread and let us know. I'd be happy to help you, whatever you decide. You may want to contact an advocacy organization in your area that assists survivors of sexual harassment, discrimination, and/or sexual assault. They can provide a victim advocate for you who will advocate for YOUR best interests and counseling if you'd like.


Thank you so much. I will have to admit that at this point, I am hesitant about whether I want to report him. I will return to his firm again after graduation - that is if I accept the offer, and I doubt if he will do a similar thing once I return.
One of the reasons I am doubtful about this is that he seems to have no prior reputation of the sort; the female partner I talked to said that he is respectable.
Am I the only one going through this?

Thank you so much for your support. I actually cried so much over this - I even cried once right in front of him, and I hate myself for doing that.


viewtopic.php?f=9&t=148607&p=4082271#p4082271

huh??

Anonymous User
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:55 am

On 2/25/2011 you posted:

I am a Chinese international student studying at Northwestern, majoring in philosophy and physics.
I want to persue a J.D. probably with international law as my concentration.
I plan on returning to China after working in several years in a law firm in the States.

For softs,
I organize a volunteering site at NU - which helps immigrants to apply for citizenship.
I did several summer internships in Latin America.
I am a leader in Campus catalyst, which does consulting for nonprofits in the Chicago area.

What schools should I look at?
F/A would be awesome, but it is not a must.
I would like to go somewhere warm after three years in Chicago, if that's possible.


Yet now you were harassed as a summer associate at a top 10 law firm?

nonprofit-prophet
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:55 am

OP, you forget to go anonymous on your last two posts. You may want to ask a mod to delete em to maintain anonymity.

User avatar
baboon309
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby baboon309 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:57 am

nonprofit-prophet wrote:OP, you forget to go anonymous on your last two posts. You may want to ask a mod to delete em to maintain anonymity.


cover up?

User avatar
vamedic03
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby vamedic03 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:58 am

nonprofit-prophet wrote:OP, you forget to go anonymous on your last two posts. You may want to ask a mod to delete em to maintain anonymity.

.
Last edited by vamedic03 on Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

delusional
Posts: 1190
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:57 pm

Re: sexual harassment?

Postby delusional » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:59 am

Anonymous User wrote:On 2/25/2011 you posted:

I am a Chinese international student studying at Northwestern, majoring in philosophy and physics.
I want to persue a J.D. probably with international law as my concentration.
I plan on returning to China after working in several years in a law firm in the States.

For softs,
I organize a volunteering site at NU - which helps immigrants to apply for citizenship.
I did several summer internships in Latin America.
I am a leader in Campus catalyst, which does consulting for nonprofits in the Chicago area.

What schools should I look at?
F/A would be awesome, but it is not a must.
I would like to go somewhere warm after three years in Chicago, if that's possible.


Yet now you were harassed as a summer associate at a top 10 law firm?

I just hope that this topic was trolling, and not the other one. Somewhat of a relief. Why do people do this, again?

Sup Kid
Posts: 557
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:49 pm

Re: sexual harassment?

Postby Sup Kid » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:59 am

Step 1: Post flame anonymously
Step 2: Respond to flame thread with username
Step 3: Everyone realizes that thread is now flame
Step 4: ???
Step 5: Profit Slink off into corner

2LLLL
Posts: 249
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby 2LLLL » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:01 pm

This is awful advice, and someone should slap you in the mouth for giving it.

I hope for your sake you're trolling.

OP: I'd suggest reporting it to some higher ups, and possibly consult with an attorney. You could always shoot an email to Catherine MacKinnon at HLS, who basically invented the sexual harassment claim. Not necessarily for representation, but for advice. I'm sure she would have no problems giving it.

Do you really wanna work at a place that either condones this behavior or punishes you if you report it?

But it's totally your call, obviously.






This is a question about academics vs. reality. Academically yeah sexual harrassment should not be tolerated and this guy's misdeeds should be exposed.

In reality, OP may have extensive debts that she needs to pay off, and this managing partner can easily derail her career. Even something as simple as the partner saying to other partners that he worked with OP and found her work product to be lacking could result in OP not getting any work and losing her grip on BigLaw. If OP goes in and starts raising a stink about harrassment that occurred last summer, that can be proven only in a her word vs. his way, without any new occurrences of harrassment, how long do you think that OP is going to last at that firm? Do you think that the BigLaw hiring market for junior associates who brought sexual harrassment suits against their former firms is thriving right now?

It's one thing to say "you wouldn't want to work somewhere that tolerates this." It's a completely different thing when OP may pretty much have to work there to pay off student debt.

If the guy starts up with this pattern of conduct again when you start at the firm, then by all means nail his balls to the wall. If he leaves you alone, you have to consider whether its worth losing your only shot at BigLaw (and in all likelihood there would be no second shot in this situation) to get this guy for something that happened a year ago.

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Objection
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby Objection » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:02 pm

2LLLL wrote:
This is awful advice, and someone should slap you in the mouth for giving it.

I hope for your sake you're trolling.

OP: I'd suggest reporting it to some higher ups, and possibly consult with an attorney. You could always shoot an email to Catherine MacKinnon at HLS, who basically invented the sexual harassment claim. Not necessarily for representation, but for advice. I'm sure she would have no problems giving it.

Do you really wanna work at a place that either condones this behavior or punishes you if you report it?

But it's totally your call, obviously.






This is a question about academics vs. reality. Academically yeah sexual harrassment should not be tolerated and this guy's misdeeds should be exposed.

In reality, OP may have extensive debts that she needs to pay off, and this managing partner can easily derail her career. Even something as simple as the partner saying to other partners that he worked with OP and found her work product to be lacking could result in OP not getting any work and losing her grip on BigLaw. If OP goes in and starts raising a stink about harrassment that occurred last summer, that can be proven only in a her word vs. his way, without any new occurrences of harrassment, how long do you think that OP is going to last at that firm? Do you think that the BigLaw hiring market for junior associates who brought sexual harrassment suits against their former firms is thriving right now?

It's one thing to say "you wouldn't want to work somewhere that tolerates this." It's a completely different thing when OP may pretty much have to work there to pay off student debt.

If the guy starts up with this pattern of conduct again when you start at the firm, then by all means nail his balls to the wall. If he leaves you alone, you have to consider whether its worth losing your only shot at BigLaw (and in all likelihood there would be no second shot in this situation) to get this guy for something that happened a year ago.


IBR = you dont need big law to pay off debts.

2LLLL
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby 2LLLL » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:03 pm

Ugh, went and wrote out a whole response when it turns out this is a flame.

I had a feeling it was fishy when OP didn't say whether she received an offer from the firm after that summer...

Anonymous User
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Re: sexual harassment?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:On 2/25/2011 you posted:




Yet now you were harassed as a summer associate at a top 10 law firm?[/quote]


Ok, this is definitely creepy that you're checking this person's post history, and based on earlier posts, are now coming to some "conclusion" based on a whole lot of assumptions.
1. You don't know FOR SURE that in the post you're referring to that the poster was referring to themselves. They could have been referencing a friend's experience/trying to get advice for a friend/curious about what people would say. They could have been writing an essay/blog about admissions outcomes. They could have just been having fun.

And now, after going out of your way to learn more about the OP (especially given that the OP originally posted this anonymously, and I'm sure it was an accident that we now may have an idea who the OP is (again, how do you know that the person who replied was the original OP?)) , you're going to insinuate that they're not trustworthy? You're like the one person a DA would never want on the jury for a domestic violence/sexual assault case because you're questioning the story of the survivor.

OP, don't listen to this person. I don't care about the circumstances of your previous posts; they're irrelevant to the question you are asking now.

Edited for clarity
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

wothli
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Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:32 am

Re: sexual harassment?

Postby wothli » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:05 pm

delusional wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:On 2/25/2011 you posted:

I am a Chinese international student studying at Northwestern, majoring in philosophy and physics.
I want to persue a J.D. probably with international law as my concentration.
I plan on returning to China after working in several years in a law firm in the States.

For softs,
I organize a volunteering site at NU - which helps immigrants to apply for citizenship.
I did several summer internships in Latin America.
I am a leader in Campus catalyst, which does consulting for nonprofits in the Chicago area.

What schools should I look at?
F/A would be awesome, but it is not a must.
I would like to go somewhere warm after three years in Chicago, if that's possible.


Yet now you were harassed as a summer associate at a top 10 law firm?

I just hope that this topic was trolling, and not the other one. Somewhat of a relief. Why do people do this, again?



This is not my account - and the owner of the account thought it would be useful for me to ask for advice here. Sorry for the confusion.

wothli
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:32 am

Re: sexual harassment?

Postby wothli » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:07 pm

2LLLL wrote:Ugh, went and wrote out a whole response when it turns out this is a flame.

I had a feeling it was fishy when OP didn't say whether she received an offer from the firm after that summer...


Actually I am asking this because I am pondering if I want to go back to the firm.
I will likely work on the same floor with him, and I cannot stand that.

And sorry about the confusion, see my PM. This is not my account.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: sexual harassment?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:On 2/25/2011 you posted:




Yet now you were harassed as a summer associate at a top 10 law firm?



Ok, this is definitely creepy that you're checking this person's post history, and based on earlier posts, are now coming to some "conclusion" based on a whole lot of assumptions.
1. You don't know FOR SURE that in the post you're referring to that the poster was referring to themselves. They could have been referencing a friend's experience/trying to get advice for a friend/curious about what people would say. They could have been writing an essay/blog about admissions outcomes. They could have just been having fun.

And now, after going out of your way to learn more about the OP (especially given that the OP originally posted this anonymously, and I'm sure it was an accident that we now may have an idea who the OP is (again, how do you know that the person who replied was the original OP?)) , you're going to insinuate that they're not trustworthy? You're like the one person a DA would never want on the jury for a domestic violence/sexual assault case because you're questioning the story of the survivor.

OP, don't listen to this person. I don't care about the circumstances of your previous posts; they're irrelevant to the question you are asking now.

Edited for clarity[/quote]

Lol @ edited for clarity

wothli
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:32 am

Re: sexual harassment?

Postby wothli » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:11 pm

Objection wrote:
2LLLL wrote:
This is awful advice, and someone should slap you in the mouth for giving it.

I hope for your sake you're trolling.

OP: I'd suggest reporting it to some higher ups, and possibly consult with an attorney. You could always shoot an email to Catherine MacKinnon at HLS, who basically invented the sexual harassment claim. Not necessarily for representation, but for advice. I'm sure she would have no problems giving it.

Do you really wanna work at a place that either condones this behavior or punishes you if you report it?

But it's totally your call, obviously.






This is a question about academics vs. reality. Academically yeah sexual harrassment should not be tolerated and this guy's misdeeds should be exposed.

In reality, OP may have extensive debts that she needs to pay off, and this managing partner can easily derail her career. Even something as simple as the partner saying to other partners that he worked with OP and found her work product to be lacking could result in OP not getting any work and losing her grip on BigLaw. If OP goes in and starts raising a stink about harrassment that occurred last summer, that can be proven only in a her word vs. his way, without any new occurrences of harrassment, how long do you think that OP is going to last at that firm? Do you think that the BigLaw hiring market for junior associates who brought sexual harrassment suits against their former firms is thriving right now?

It's one thing to say "you wouldn't want to work somewhere that tolerates this." It's a completely different thing when OP may pretty much have to work there to pay off student debt.

If the guy starts up with this pattern of conduct again when you start at the firm, then by all means nail his balls to the wall. If he leaves you alone, you have to consider whether its worth losing your only shot at BigLaw (and in all likelihood there would be no second shot in this situation) to get this guy for something that happened a year ago.


IBR = you dont need big law to pay off debts.


The problem is that I DO want to work at BigLaw, and I don't really want this to ruin my chances.
This might sound super, super, super cowardly, but that's why I am hesitant.




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