2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Tenderloin1981
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:17 am

2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby Tenderloin1981 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:57 pm

I am currently a 2L at Hastings, and am getting really anxious about the job search. I asked around at Hastings, and the only ones I know who found summer associate positions are those who got jobs through OCI or are working for their pre-law employer. A lot of my friends are desperately looking for summer associate positions. It's April already, and it's kinda getting late...

My stats: Hastings, top 50%, on one of the journals (not the main one).

Does it mean that those who don't have summer jobs are doomed? What will happen if we don't get summer jobs? Is this normal? If you are a Hastings student or grad, do you have advice or experiences you could share with us? Thanks so much!!!

Danteshek
Posts: 2172
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:40 pm

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby Danteshek » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:28 pm

You need to develop a marketing strategy for yourself that fits your experience and accomplishments.

Of course, the less experience you have, and the fewer accomplishments, the harder that is to do.

Think about it.

random5483
Posts: 684
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:17 pm

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby random5483 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:58 pm

Are you looking only at summer associate positions in firms? Are you targeting smaller firms? You might want to consider a non-firm job or any job now just so you have something to put on your resume?

Also, have you been getting interviews? If you have had a lot of interviews, maybe it is your interviewing skills. If not, your application materials might need to be fixed (resume, cover letters or writing sample).

If you have solid application materials and can interview well (career offices in some schools will do mock interviews), then the problem might be the places you are applying to. For instance, top 50% at Hastings is not going to get you a big law summer associate position. Top 10% might, but anything outside of that is a long shot for big law. However, summer associate positions in small law firms are definitely possible.

Tenderloin1981
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:17 am

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby Tenderloin1981 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:19 pm

I've only been to one interview in the previous six months. I got an interview through the lottery system at Hastings OCI last fall, but didn't get a callback. Then I sent out hundreds of emails to small/mid-sized firms, then followed up--no leads. I have been looking at small to mid-sized firms, and am willing to do anything non-CrimLaw.

I am quite an average person with average looks, and even my name is quite common. No particular work experiences except administrative assistant job after college. Was a research assistant my 1L summer. I do have social skills, but am not charismatic like some people who have this natural power to draw others to them (you know what I mean?). There is not much about me that would make people remember me after an interview, networking event, or even full-semester class.

People at Hastings are so talented, and many have interesting life experiences. Even those people have a hard time finding jobs, which really makes me nervous. What do I do? Any advice would help (e.g. how to stand out during the job search in the absence of interesting/unique credentials)?

Danteshek
Posts: 2172
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:40 pm

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby Danteshek » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:56 pm

Your first mistake was sending out hundreds of emails (really?). It signals to firms that you have poor judgment.

If you have little to offer employers, you will have to take anything you can get.

You may have to volunteer for free at legal aid or something, or do a clinic at your school.

You can also be a TA for a professor.

User avatar
drdolittle
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:15 am

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby drdolittle » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:57 pm

I feel for you. I'm a 1L at Hastings and it's definitely true that there're some incredibly talented kids here. I'm not sure how that relates to landing jobs though, unless the talent we mean is securing a high class rank. That's not what I meant.

Anecdotally, I'd suggest you start contacting public offices including judges and small local firms in the less desirable cities around the bay area and CA in general. If I remember correctly, the career office sent out an email recently about the Monterey County's PD Office in Salinas still looking for summer interns. I know you don't want to do anything crim related, but these are the type of opportunities and locations you should be going for at this stage, whether or not crim related. What I've clearly learned from my own summer job search, as well as from my friends here, is that there's a huge threshold of getting that first significant position. Once you're in the game, things get easier.

Anyway, I know I don't necessarily have as much experience as you do with all this (yet), but I can still simply encourage you to keep plugging away. A number of my friends got pretty solid summer "jobs" (in quotes because I don't really consider a nonpaid 1L position a job) only in the last few weeks.

Also, try to call the office you're applying to. OCS keeps stressing this and although I think most of their advice is hot air, when I think about it, it does seem like the people I know with 1L "jobs" and jobs directly interacted with employers, usually through an informational or application check phone call, before getting selected for the position.

Good luck!

Anonymous User
Posts: 273257
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:09 am

How many other people at Hastings also have not been able to find summer employment?

Also, you go to a middling law school with middling statistics and a middling background. If you just email firms with resume/CL/Transcript, how do you ever expect to get a job considering people at much better schools with better grades are doing the same thing?

My advice: I go to a better school with better stats and was struggling myself. You need to get on the phone/ email and start contacting people who can help you, BEFORE YOU APPLY. People take this as oh that means you need connections. Nope, you just ask your career for names of alumns who work at firm X, you than call or email such alumns and ask for their advice about firm X. If you sound interested said alumns will normally forward your info to someone who can grant you an interview.

Granted, this method takes more effort than just spamming everyone with your resume and cover letter but it actually gives you a shot of getting a job. Put yourself in the position of the firm. You may not be hiring or might be hiring 1-2 people. You are getting 100s of apps from students including plenty from T14 with good grades and qualifications who didn't get something through OCI. Some middling app with normal grades from Hastings comes in, are you interested? Now, you then get an email from a senior partner who went to Hastings saying there is this great kid you should take a look at, that's how networking works everyone.

I don't mean to be critical of people on these boards, but trying hard for a job involves contacting everyone you can from alumni/family/friends/cdo to help you to see if they know someone. Sending out a billion cover letters is just a billion minimal effort attempts and will yield you nothing. I know this all from experience, the first job where I REALLY TRIED was the one I got.

User avatar
powerlawyer06
Posts: 233
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:20 am

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby powerlawyer06 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:14 am

Are you General TSO? I have been waiting for him to reincarnate himself on this site.

If not, I am sorry I don't have any relevant advice for you. Good luck.

User avatar
Lawquacious
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:36 am

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby Lawquacious » Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:33 am

Not to be insensitive, but from Hastings can't you only reasonably expect a market-paying firm job (SA) if you are around top 10% of your class? I realize that may not be all you are looking for, but I got the impression that a firm job is what you are targeting. I wouldn't expect just being above median at Hastings would do the trick. On the otherhand, I do feel for you since you don't have a 2L job yet and the clock is ticking. I am a 1L at a peer school, and after quite a few interviews I still don't have anything lined up, so I have been freaking out a bit myself. And I am applying mostly to volunteer positions with a GPA that should be within top 15% or so (rank hasn't been calculated yet). But I understand that 1L and 2L jobs are kind of a different beast. I suspect I may be in your position next year though if I stay at the school I am at (I still hope to have a shot at transferring to T14), and I suspect that the same trouble may occur even if I am fairly high in the class rank. Good luck.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby timbs4339 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:26 pm

2L at CCN also freaking out. I'm in the same boat. Been rejected at everywhere from small firms, midsize firms, big law, DAs offices, fed gov, city gov, public interest, and corporations.

The time to apply for state government jobs was yesterday. Good PI gigs are going to go to people with PI backgrounds. It might be time for you to start applying to places like Legal Aid that could use free help.

My one question is: why no crim law?

dissonance1848
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:42 pm

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby dissonance1848 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:31 pm

What is your class rank? 2L CCN guy

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby timbs4339 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:33 pm

Just below median. No B-s, mostly B's, 2 A range.

dissonance1848
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:42 pm

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby dissonance1848 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:34 pm

Fuckin hell, I feel for you man.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby timbs4339 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:40 pm

Yep, there's a strong chance now I won't get anything for the summer. I figured by now the people from better schools or with higher GPAs would have worked themselves into jobs somewhere. But I was just rejected from a place last week about 3 hours after I sent in my transcript. So there must be people still out there with better resumes and GPAs than me who still haven't found anything.

User avatar
Aberzombie1892
Posts: 1907
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:56 am

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:50 pm

If the private sector is not working for you, go for (relevant) city, state, or federal government summer positions. They are out there and not all of them have been filled yet.

And no, I'm not referring only to criminal related summer positions (DA/PD/US attorney/etc.).

User avatar
somewhatwayward
Posts: 1446
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:10 pm

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby somewhatwayward » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:55 pm

timbs4339 wrote:Just below median. No B-s, mostly B's, 2 A range.


were your As last year during 1L or this year?

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby timbs4339 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:59 pm

somewhatwayward wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:Just below median. No B-s, mostly B's, 2 A range.


were your As last year during 1L or this year?


1L year. My present situation is a result of mediocre grades, no work experience, an average personality, and poor bidding.

OP: Sorry to hijack your thread. But a lot of what you said in your email resonated with me, especially the parts about having an average personality (people tend to think you are either an awesome interviewer or a sweating, stuttering mess) and not having much on the resume.
Last edited by timbs4339 on Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
somewhatwayward
Posts: 1446
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:10 pm

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby somewhatwayward » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:00 pm

^
what were your bidding mistakes?

eta: sorry for all the questions, but i am a 1L at CLS, a bit above median, and i am worrying about next summer...
Last edited by somewhatwayward on Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby timbs4339 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:01 pm

somewhatwayward wrote:^
what were your bidding mistakes?


Bid primarily on a secondary market. Didn't fully understand the bidding system. PM me if you want more details.

Tenderloin1981
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:17 am

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby Tenderloin1981 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:10 pm

Wow, thank you for the responses! I appreciate all your responses, and they have been very helpful. I have printed them out and will keep reading them on a regular basis to encourage and remind myself. Thanks again!!!

But how do you establish connections with people at various agencies? I mean, in addition to asking questions, what else do we say to make ourselves stand out? I am not good on the phone, and sometimes I just have nothing to say on the phone.

Re: why no criminal law. Criminal law is too intense. I enjoy peaceful jobs and a peaceful life, and tend to shy away from criminal law :( Perhaps a character defect I have :(((

Anonymous User
Posts: 273257
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:00 pm

Danteshek wrote:Your first mistake was sending out hundreds of emails (really?). It signals to firms that you have poor judgment.

If you have little to offer employers, you will have to take anything you can get.

You may have to volunteer for free at legal aid or something, or do a clinic at your school.

You can also be a TA for a professor.



Why is it a mistake sending out hundreds of emails? Why does it reflect "poor judgment? Do you mean that firms prefer the old-fashioned hard copy (i.e. letter) inquiries? Or do you mean that the emails should have followed phone calls instead of preceding them? Any clarification would be much appreciated!

User avatar
drdolittle
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:15 am

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby drdolittle » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:05 pm

Danteshek wrote:Your first mistake was sending out hundreds of emails (really?). It signals to firms that you have poor judgment.

How would firms know the total number of job emails OP sent out in the first place?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273257
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:47 am

Panic time. Screw emails. Time to start calling.

See if you can fund attorneys out there with your same undergrad/law school combo and contact them. They'll be very inclined to help you out. I've made several good connections this way.

User avatar
gwuorbust
Posts: 2087
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:37 pm

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby gwuorbust » Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Panic time. Screw emails. Time to start calling.

See if you can fund attorneys out there with your same undergrad/law school combo and contact them. They'll be very inclined to help you out. I've made several good connections this way.


cold calling may be a way to get into an :unpaid: internship with a small firm. while emails are easy to throw away, it is hard to ignore a phone call. people are able to sell all kinds of shit via phone. with enough calls, you should be able to sell free labor.

the key will be to proving your value once you are there. you gotta show them that you are worth hiring once you graduate.

Turtledove
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:31 pm

Re: 2L at Hastings, no job, freaking out...You?

Postby Turtledove » Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:59 pm

powerlawyer06 wrote:Are you General TSO? I have been waiting for him to reincarnate himself on this site.

If not, I am sorry I don't have any relevant advice for you. Good luck.


Wait what happened to General Tso? Did he get banned or something?




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.