Very small firm pay

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Anonymous User
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Very small firm pay

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:52 am

I have a summer offer with a personal injury firm of three lawyers (one partner and two associates). He has asked me to give him my compensation requirements, but I have no idea what the typical pay is for this type of firm especially ITE. 1L-NYC, top school, top grades FWIW.

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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:59 am

Most of my friends who worked at a small firm or solo got $10/hour. Do you think these guys gross a lot? Did they pay attention to your transcript and other credentials? Do they view you as a "catch" ? Or just a law student they are doing a favor to?

Maybe suggest 15-20$?

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Leira7905
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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby Leira7905 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:09 am

Anonymous User wrote:Most of my friends who worked at a small firm or solo got $10/hour. Do you think these guys gross a lot? Did they pay attention to your transcript and other credentials? Do they view you as a "catch" ? Or just a law student they are doing a favor to?

Maybe suggest 15-20$?


In that market I would shoot more towards the 15-20 range.... Having said that, you have to consider the fact that many 1Ls are having a hard time finding any summer employment at all, and ultimately, the experience on your resume is more important than a few bucks an hour.

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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:33 am

Anonymous User wrote:Most of my friends who worked at a small firm or solo got $10/hour. Do you think these guys gross a lot? Did they pay attention to your transcript and other credentials? Do they view you as a "catch" ? Or just a law student they are doing a favor to?

Maybe suggest 15-20$?



It's tough to say. He seemed like he was intent on selling me the firm when we spoke, but that could just be his style. They do gross a lot!! They have had some pretty big payoffs recently. I am not looking to make bank, just to be able to pay rent and eat! :)

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Tangerine Gleam
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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:49 am

Personal injury firm in NYC which does well? I really don't think it'd be inappropriate to politely ask for $25/hour, especially if they really like you. That's equivalent to $50k salary, which is quite low for an NYC lawyer (even plaintiff-side, I would imagine). One would hope that the worst they would do is say no.

Have you asked your career services office?

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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:53 am

Depends on the firm. I'm working at 12 atty firm that beats market.

Just try and negotiate. Contact a few other similar firms and see what they pay new associates.

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Cupidity
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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby Cupidity » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:55 am

$13-15 is common.

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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:23 pm

He offered 15. He gave me until Tuesday to decide. I have another interview on Tuesday with a midsize firm that pays twice as much. Is it appropriate to tell then during the interview that I have a deadline that expiries the same day? Would they feel too rushed? Grrrrrrrr as if I ain't got enough crap to worry about! Lol (these are good worries though, I suppose)

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dood
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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby dood » Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:25 pm

Cupidity wrote:$13-15 is common.


i made $20/hr as a summer engineering intern circa 2005. this is pretty poor.

splitmuch
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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby splitmuch » Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:29 pm

15 bucks as a 1L in NYC? I make 18 as a 0L in Kansas City at a 3 attorney personal injury firm.

FWIW 15 was their original offer, I countered with 20 and we settled on 18. Did he seem open to negotiation?
Last edited by splitmuch on Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Stonewall
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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby Stonewall » Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:29 pm

dood wrote:
Cupidity wrote:$13-15 is common.


i made $20/hr as a summer engineering intern circa 2005. this is pretty poor.


13-15 might just be 2011 1L reality.

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Tangerine Gleam
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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:He offered 15. He gave me until Tuesday to decide. I have another interview on Tuesday with a midsize firm that pays twice as much. Is it appropriate to tell then during the interview that I have a deadline that expiries the same day? Would they feel too rushed? Grrrrrrrr as if I ain't got enough crap to worry about! Lol (these are good worries though, I suppose)


Not only is that appropriate, but you may want to let the firm know in advance. I did this and it was not a problem; if anything, it helped.

gradesmatter
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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby gradesmatter » Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:17 pm

do you really want to be stuck in shitlaw?

MrAnon
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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby MrAnon » Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:18 pm

Tangerine Gleam wrote: $50k salary, which is quite low for an NYC lawyer (even plaintiff-side, I would imagine). One would hope that the worst they would do is say no.


Haha. Guess we've determined that $15/hr is the norm.

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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby MrAnon » Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:21 pm

Tangerine Gleam wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:He offered 15. He gave me until Tuesday to decide. I have another interview on Tuesday with a midsize firm that pays twice as much. Is it appropriate to tell then during the interview that I have a deadline that expiries the same day? Would they feel too rushed? Grrrrrrrr as if I ain't got enough crap to worry about! Lol (these are good worries though, I suppose)


Not only is that appropriate, but you may want to let the firm know in advance. I did this and it was not a problem; if anything, it helped.


Not appropriate. You can mention it all you want but they will merrily interview 20 other people and laugh about how you tried to give them a deadline to decide on your $15/hr job. You can always accept the 15 job and then change your mind if the other firm calls you. Its not like there is some black list that they will place you on.

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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:54 pm

MrAnon wrote:
Tangerine Gleam wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:He offered 15. He gave me until Tuesday to decide. I have another interview on Tuesday with a midsize firm that pays twice as much. Is it appropriate to tell then during the interview that I have a deadline that expiries the same day? Would they feel too rushed? Grrrrrrrr as if I ain't got enough crap to worry about! Lol (these are good worries though, I suppose)


Not only is that appropriate, but you may want to let the firm know in advance. I did this and it was not a problem; if anything, it helped.


Not appropriate. You can mention it all you want but they will merrily interview 20 other people and laugh about how you tried to give them a deadline to decide on your $15/hr job. You can always accept the 15 job and then change your mind if the other firm calls you. Its not like there is some black list that they will place you on.



You're not serious are you? Isn't sacrilege to accept and then change your mind? Also, every firm I've spoken with has directly asked me to let them know if I am coming up against a deadline.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby XxSpyKEx » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:12 am

Tangerine Gleam wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:He offered 15. He gave me until Tuesday to decide. I have another interview on Tuesday with a midsize firm that pays twice as much. Is it appropriate to tell then during the interview that I have a deadline that expiries the same day? Would they feel too rushed? Grrrrrrrr as if I ain't got enough crap to worry about! Lol (these are good worries though, I suppose)


Not only is that appropriate, but you may want to let the firm know in advance. I did this and it was not a problem; if anything, it helped.


Agreed.

Just ask the small firm for an extension on the deadline (come up with a reason) and see if they do it. Even if you can get another week, you could interview with the midlaw firm and then the next day tell them you have received an offer that expires in 6 days, and politely ask them if they might be able make a decision quicker.. This is pretty much the same thing you do with biglaw firms nowadays (i.e. ask for a decision quicker at other firms after receiving an offer from one firm) because nobody trusts the NALP rule on how long an offer should be held open (since there isn't exactly an enforcement mechanism built into the NALP rules, and biglaw firms have less certainty now where they might start rescinding offers to avoid getting too many acceptances).

Anonymous User wrote:
MrAnon wrote:
Tangerine Gleam wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:He offered 15. He gave me until Tuesday to decide. I have another interview on Tuesday with a midsize firm that pays twice as much. Is it appropriate to tell then during the interview that I have a deadline that expiries the same day? Would they feel too rushed? Grrrrrrrr as if I ain't got enough crap to worry about! Lol (these are good worries though, I suppose)


Not only is that appropriate, but you may want to let the firm know in advance. I did this and it was not a problem; if anything, it helped.


Not appropriate. You can mention it all you want but they will merrily interview 20 other people and laugh about how you tried to give them a deadline to decide on your $15/hr job. You can always accept the 15 job and then change your mind if the other firm calls you. Its not like there is some black list that they will place you on.



You're not serious are you? Isn't sacrilege to accept and then change your mind? Also, every firm I've spoken with has directly asked me to let them know if I am coming up against a deadline.


Yeah that would be incredibly unprofessional. The problem is the legal community is a fairly small insulated community (not sure about in NYC, but in other locations it is), where attorneys talk to each other. You don’t want to be known as a person that pulled that kind of crap (i.e. accepted an offer and then rescinded your acceptance because you found something better) because it could hurt your job prospects later.

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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:22 am

$15 seems pretty low. I got about $45/hr as a 1L summer at a med mal defense firm of about 30 attorneys in a very secondary market. Obviously that firm was bigger than yours and was defense rather than plaintiff-side, but it was still on the small side and still in the same area generally. But $15 is obviously still >> $0, so unless you feel exceptionally confident about your upcoming interview or are very risk-loving, I'd accept the $15/hr job ITE.

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well-hello-there
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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby well-hello-there » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:24 am

a union pipefitter's apprentice in shit-town U.S.A. makes more than $15/hour his first day on the job. GED and one year of college algebra required though.

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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby blsingindisguise » Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:04 am

XxSpyKEx wrote:Yeah that would be incredibly unprofessional. The problem is the legal community is a fairly small insulated community (not sure about in NYC, but in other locations it is), where attorneys talk to each other. You don’t want to be known as a person that pulled that kind of crap (i.e. accepted an offer and then rescinded your acceptance because you found something better) because it could hurt your job prospects later.


This is such a load of horseshit. The NYC legal 'community' is HUGE and no one talks about low-level nonsense like 1Ls who back out of summer jobs. As long as you don't leave them with too little time to find someone, you're not doing them any harm, and it will most likely be EASY for them to find someone else in this economy. Don't drink the career services kool-aid. Look out for your interests.

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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby zomginternets » Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:33 am

Another rescinding ok v. rescinding not ok thread coming...

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swc65
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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby swc65 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:09 pm

blsingindisguise wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:Yeah that would be incredibly unprofessional. The problem is the legal community is a fairly small insulated community (not sure about in NYC, but in other locations it is), where attorneys talk to each other. You don’t want to be known as a person that pulled that kind of crap (i.e. accepted an offer and then rescinded your acceptance because you found something better) because it could hurt your job prospects later.


This is such a load of horseshit. The NYC legal 'community' is HUGE and no one talks about low-level nonsense like 1Ls who back out of summer jobs. As long as you don't leave them with too little time to find someone, you're not doing them any harm, and it will most likely be EASY for them to find someone else in this economy. Don't drink the career services kool-aid. Look out for your interests.



I would tend to agree. I mean firms don't have a problem laying you off or no offering or asking you to leave when you won't make partner. If you get a better opportunity, then shouldn't you just take it? Where else in the business world is that not the golden rule???? And law firms are businesses!

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby XxSpyKEx » Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:29 pm

swc65 wrote:
blsingindisguise wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:Yeah that would be incredibly unprofessional. The problem is the legal community is a fairly small insulated community (not sure about in NYC, but in other locations it is), where attorneys talk to each other. You don’t want to be known as a person that pulled that kind of crap (i.e. accepted an offer and then rescinded your acceptance because you found something better) because it could hurt your job prospects later.


This is such a load of horseshit. The NYC legal 'community' is HUGE and no one talks about low-level nonsense like 1Ls who back out of summer jobs. As long as you don't leave them with too little time to find someone, you're not doing them any harm, and it will most likely be EASY for them to find someone else in this economy. Don't drink the career services kool-aid. Look out for your interests.



I would tend to agree. I mean firms don't have a problem laying you off or no offering or asking you to leave when you won't make partner.


Yeah, but that is different than a law firm offering you a job, you accepting it, and then the law firm rescinding its offer if it finds a better canidate for the position (prior to you starting work).

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swc65
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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby swc65 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:51 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
swc65 wrote:
blsingindisguise wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:Yeah that would be incredibly unprofessional. The problem is the legal community is a fairly small insulated community (not sure about in NYC, but in other locations it is), where attorneys talk to each other. You don’t want to be known as a person that pulled that kind of crap (i.e. accepted an offer and then rescinded your acceptance because you found something better) because it could hurt your job prospects later.


This is such a load of horseshit. The NYC legal 'community' is HUGE and no one talks about low-level nonsense like 1Ls who back out of summer jobs. As long as you don't leave them with too little time to find someone, you're not doing them any harm, and it will most likely be EASY for them to find someone else in this economy. Don't drink the career services kool-aid. Look out for your interests.



I would tend to agree. I mean firms don't have a problem laying you off or no offering or asking you to leave when you won't make partner.


Yeah, but that is different than a law firm offering you a job, you accepting it, and then the law firm rescinding its offer if it finds a better canidate for the position (prior to you starting work).



yeah, but it's still just self interest. This manufactured loyalty requirement to some business that will get rid of you the second they don't expect for you to make them any money seems only to advantage the profit driven man- pass it bitch.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Very small firm pay

Postby XxSpyKEx » Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:51 pm

swc65 wrote:yeah, but it's still just self interest. This manufactured loyalty requirement to some business that will get rid of you the second they don't expect for you to make them any money seems only to advantage the profit driven man- pass it bitch.


I understand were you’re coming from with this one, and I don’t disagree with you. However, in the professional world, when you come to an agreement about working with an employer, it is expected that you won’t continue to search for employment and rescind your acceptance if something better comes along. This is similar to how it is expected that the law firm that made you an offer won’t continue to interview other candidates and rescind the offer after you already accepted. (This whole system doesn’t work if both parties continue to their employment search after coming to an agreement). Additionally, all you both agree to is that you will work there in the summer, even if it only for a day. It doesn’t guarantee any kind of permanent offer or anything like that, and you just have to recognize that. Obviously, trying to do what you can to avoid a situation where you have accepted a crappier job prior to getting an interview and offer at a better job makes sense (such as, in this case, asking the small firm for an extension on its deadline to accept and asking the midlaw firm if they could give you a decision quicker the day after interview because you have an open offer). But it doesn’t always work out that way.




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