Good looks a plus?

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Pleasye
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Re: Good looks a plus?

Postby Pleasye » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:36 pm

f7 wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:I said in part, because I wondered about it. It was mentioned to me after an interview. However, I should be on track to get where I need to go. I suspect it's a "sum of the parts" issue for a lot of people, involving their resumes as well. I know my pre-LS background disqualified me from some jobs, but that was something I knew to expect, and obviously related to my own career and academic choices. I only take issue with blatant stereotyping where it exists, because people don't get to choose their physicality, generally speaking. If a position does not involve appearance/physicality (IE: not a modeling/acting job), it shouldn't matter, end of story.

I don't think it matters much; I think people use it as an excuse.

I think I agree with this. I'm sure that interviewers judge women on their looks (good or bad) when they first walk into an interview. However, I think if you have all of the other qualifications (good resume and good grades) and the things coming out of your pretty mouth are intelligent then you will be fine.

Curry

Re: Good looks a plus?

Postby Curry » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:37 pm

Pleasye wrote:
f7 wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:I said in part, because I wondered about it. It was mentioned to me after an interview. However, I should be on track to get where I need to go. I suspect it's a "sum of the parts" issue for a lot of people, involving their resumes as well. I know my pre-LS background disqualified me from some jobs, but that was something I knew to expect, and obviously related to my own career and academic choices. I only take issue with blatant stereotyping where it exists, because people don't get to choose their physicality, generally speaking. If a position does not involve appearance/physicality (IE: not a modeling/acting job), it shouldn't matter, end of story.

I don't think it matters much; I think people use it as an excuse.

I think I agree with this. I'm sure that interviewers judge women on their looks (good or bad) when they first walk into an interview. However, I think if you have all of the other qualifications (good resume and good grades) and the things coming out of your pretty mouth are intelligent then you will be fine.

Says the winner of DF's attractiveness contest...

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Good looks a plus?

Postby OperaSoprano » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:38 pm

f7 wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:I said in part, because I wondered about it. It was mentioned to me after an interview. However, I should be on track to get where I need to go. I suspect it's a "sum of the parts" issue for a lot of people, involving their resumes as well. I know my pre-LS background disqualified me from some jobs, but that was something I knew to expect, and obviously related to my own career and academic choices. I only take issue with blatant stereotyping where it exists, because people don't get to choose their physicality, generally speaking. If a position does not involve appearance/physicality (IE: not a modeling/acting job), it shouldn't matter, end of story.

I don't think it matters much; I think people use it as an excuse.


Well, I can't say being a fashion merchandising major never came up. It was mentioned in every interview I went on, so I merely infer. Obviously, some employers and organizations were fine with it, others weren't. I'm set for the fall now, but I still maintain that stereotyping happens. It's not something people can't overcome, fortunately, but appearance based bias is well documented, as others in this thread have pointed out, and women bear the brunt of the scrutiny needlessly when interviewing for jobs that really should have nothing to do with what they look like.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Good looks a plus?

Postby OperaSoprano » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:40 pm

existenz wrote:
If there was one thing Ms. Tulip despised, it was the Ugly People. This was her term for the 99.8% of the human population who were less attractive than she. Ms. Tulip was surrounded by them: her friends, family, customers, coworkers, and even her boyfriends. She’d once been to a fashion show in New York City and met some of her peers in beauty; it was the highlight of her life. Other than that blissful day, she’s lived in captivity amongst the Ugly People, these sickly creatures with bad skin and frizzy hair and uneven alignment of the facial bone structure.

... Ms. Tulip, who could care less about pharmaceuticals, was working on an entirely different project: a case control study on the social anthropology of Ugly People. As much as she loathed these creatures, she was fascinated by them. She needed to understand how they thought, how they found happiness (if any), how they went about their daily lives without killing themselves.

During the initial phases of her study, Ms. Tulip disguised herself as an Ugly Person and went undercover into the world. She didn’t bathe for an entire day, she put her silky brown hair in ponytail with an ugly scrunchie, she wore no makeup, she used contacts that turned her green eyes into an unappealing shade of hazel, and she wore a second-hand hoodie she bought at a thrift store.

The experience was shocking.

While walking to Dupont Circle, only three men stopped their cars to talk with her. At Starbucks she was recruited for a modeling shoot for Marie Claire, a far more pedestrian gig than her typical offers from the likes of Vogue and Harper’s Bazaar. On the subway only a single homeless man sang a song for her; normally two or three would take turns while refusing her attempts to give them money. For dinner, she was not placed in a prime window seat and her meal was not paid for by the manager. Instead, the waiter gave her a measly free dessert with a wink. At a night club she reached the bar before a few men offered her drinks; normally she’d be handed a martini within five feet of the doorway. A brawl did not break out between men who wanted to dance with her.

What a cruel, cruel world the Ugly People lived in!

Ms. Tulip needed to know more. She needed to penetrate the façade of the Ugly People’s existence, to get beyond the plastic smiles of the men and the wandering eyes of the women. Dr. Jackie told her they weren’t all bad, some of them were good despite their horrific deformities. But Ms. Tulip couldn’t believe this. “Ugly is as ugly looks” she would think to herself while watching them go about their miserable lives.


<3 Existenz, you are awesome. This is too brilliant!

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existenz
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Re: Good looks a plus?

Postby existenz » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:54 pm

f7 wrote:You're my favorite.

OperaSoprano wrote:<3 Existenz, you are awesome. This is too brilliant!

:mrgreen:

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dresden doll
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Re: Good looks a plus?

Postby dresden doll » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:57 pm

Seriously, the idea that law firms would consciously shy away from hiring attractive people is beyond lulzy. The only time physical appearance matters in 99 percent of the cases is when a person shows up badly dressed/sloppy looking, and even then it's only because it says something about his/her attitude more so than anything else.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Good looks a plus?

Postby OperaSoprano » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:27 am

dresden doll wrote:Seriously, the idea that law firms would consciously shy away from hiring attractive people is beyond lulzy. The only time physical appearance matters in 99 percent of the cases is when a person shows up badly dressed/sloppy looking, and even then it's only because it says something about his/her attitude more so than anything else.


Do you think being perceived as a dilettante/not serious is ever an issue? I realize this goes to deeper issues than just attractiveness, but I think this may be what the anonymous poster was trying to say, though I'm not sure.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Good looks a plus?

Postby ResolutePear » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:29 am

If you're not in an Armani suit, you don't deserve biglaw.

True story.

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RVP11
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Re: Good looks a plus?

Postby RVP11 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:33 am

Looks matter a lot, for both sexes. A huge % of what counts in an OCI is how the interviewer subconsciously feels about you, and your attractiveness is obviously a big part of that.

FWIW, I don't know a single attractive female at my T10 who didn't get a big firm job if she wanted one. For males the correlation is weaker, but still quite noticeable.

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danquayle
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Re: Good looks a plus?

Postby danquayle » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:33 am

Without a doubt yes. Also helps if you're in good shape.

It's not that cut and dry and won't always help, but having now sit on the other side in a few interviews, the reaction of my interviews and their comments are painfully telling.

And I've actually never seen it work to anyone's detriment, at least not in law or business. You will notice many of the young female attorneys, especially from poorer schools and especially in litigation, are good looking.

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RVP11
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Re: Good looks a plus?

Postby RVP11 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:36 am

Also, why is anyone surprised by this? Why is anyone even asking the question? Do good-looking people not have an advantage in virtually every other aspect of life? Why would law be an exception?

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danquayle
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Re: Good looks a plus?

Postby danquayle » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:37 am

RVP11 wrote:Also, why is anyone surprised by this? Why is anyone even asking the question? Do good-looking people not have an advantage in virtually every other aspect of life? Why would law be an exception?


If anything, the advantage is magnified in law, given how much of it is akin to salesmanship.




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