Urgent: Decide my summer internship please!

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.

Which offer?

Legal Aid Society
8
47%
Wait for SA w/ firm
4
24%
Wait for Summer Honors Program w/ SEC
5
29%
 
Total votes: 17

Anonymous User
Posts: 273395
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Urgent: Decide my summer internship please!

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:48 pm

i have a dilemma. 1L here.
i have an offer with legal aid society, but i am waiting on hearing from a firm (SA position) and summer honors program with the SEC. i have been interviewed by both.

legal aid wants to hear by today. should i just risk it by foregoing legal aid and hope for sec or SA? or should i just take what i have?

User avatar
Aberzombie1892
Posts: 1907
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:56 am

Re: Urgent: Decide my summer internship please!

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:53 pm

Can you accept it and then turn it down? What are the polices of your career services office?

aPosseAdEsse
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:19 am

Re: Urgent: Decide my summer internship please!

Postby aPosseAdEsse » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:58 pm

Do you happen to know approx. how many people interviewed for the SA? if 5 or less + you feel good about it, then I say hold out to hear from the firm. Between the legal aid society and SEC, since both are unpaid (right?), I say take the bird in hand at this point. That is, unless the SEC has always been your dream job/you have a rich background in securities, but I'm guessing if that were the case you wouldn't be having a hard time deciding.

Secret option Z: Take the legal aid position and appologize profusely if you get the SA. They'll have to understand that ITE (or in any economy) you need to look out for yourself financially. If they don't understand, too bad. It's a dog eat dog competitive world out there.

RE: career services. People on TLS tend to act like career services are the law/police, and that breaking their rules is awful. I agree that seeking their counsel is often appropriate, but I do not see how, or by what actual authority, they get to decide how we students conduct ourselves privately with respect to our job search.

User avatar
vamedic03
Posts: 1579
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:50 am

Re: Urgent: Decide my summer internship please!

Postby vamedic03 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:05 pm

Ask for an extension on the legal aid offer. If they don't give you an extension, then you need to make a choice.

All this advice on here about accepting an offer while keeping other applications outstanding (and rescinding your acceptance) is really unethical. I would hope that people on here have more ethics in real life.

User avatar
Borhas
Posts: 4856
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: Urgent: Decide my summer internship please!

Postby Borhas » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:21 pm

vamedic03 wrote:Ask for an extension on the legal aid offer. If they don't give you an extension, then you need to make a choice.

All this advice on here about accepting an offer while keeping other applications outstanding (and rescinding your acceptance) is really unethical. I would hope that people on here have more ethics in real life.


this is true, but I'd add that accepting an offer knowing that there is a substantial chance that you'll reneg is significantly more unethical than situations where you accept without that knowledge

either way, the best course of action is honesty.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273395
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Urgent: Decide my summer internship please!

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:25 pm

i have asked for an extension, but they did not grant it.
for the SA position, they are picking one person from my school (that is a minority).
and yes legal aid and SEC are unpaid.

and my gpa is north of 4.0 if that is of any relevance.

User avatar
Borhas
Posts: 4856
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: Urgent: Decide my summer internship please!

Postby Borhas » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:33 pm

Go big or go home I say...


turn down legal aid, it doesn't sound like you want to do PI in the long run

Anonymous User
Posts: 273395
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Urgent: Decide my summer internship please!

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:34 pm

Borhas wrote:Go big or go home I say...


turn down legal aid, it doesn't sound like you want to do PI in the long run

yep, i want to end up doing firm job.
i just dont know if my chances of SA or SEC are that good...and whether its worth the risk..

i guess worst comes to worst, i do have RA position available....

User avatar
Borhas
Posts: 4856
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: Urgent: Decide my summer internship please!

Postby Borhas » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Borhas wrote:Go big or go home I say...


turn down legal aid, it doesn't sound like you want to do PI in the long run

yep, i want to end up doing firm job.
i just dont know if my chances of SA or SEC are that good...and whether its worth the risk..

i guess worst comes to worst, i do have RA position available....


I think the choice is clear at this point

if you have RA available then you won't finish summer without a legal work... and that's really the only thing to view as a negative.

good luck

User avatar
Moxie
Posts: 665
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:27 pm

Re: Urgent: Decide my summer internship please!

Postby Moxie » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:55 pm

As long as you are sure you'll have something else to do this summer (RA), I'd turn it down and wait for either the SA or SEC.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273395
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Urgent: Decide my summer internship please!

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:11 pm

how bad does being an RA for summer look?

aPosseAdEsse
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:19 am

Re: Urgent: Decide my summer internship please!

Postby aPosseAdEsse » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:21 pm

I save ethical considerations for issues relating to life and death, pain and suffering, poverty and illness, war etc. Invading countries under false pretenses is unethical. Torturing animals is unethical. Making above median income and not donating a cent of it is unethical. Abusing one's spouse is unethical.

If for example one honestly believe that Legal Aid Society will be in a terrible position after a 1L student changes his or her mind about working there for 2 months, e.g. it will have to settle for some completely incompetent 1L that will end up causing harm in fact to a pro bono client in desperate need of legal services, than yes, I agree, accepting and turning down is unethical.

But do you know what is more likely in that situation? This non-profit will turn to one of literally 50+other ambitious and bright 1L students who would love the job and will do plenty well enough in its capacity. No one will be harmed, and in fact that other 1L student will be thrilled he landed the jig.

And this outcome-measuring perspective is all in addition to the fact that America proudly embraces employment-at-will. I worry many law students and aspiring law students on this board have never had a job before. Even if you haven’t, don’t you watch the news? No job in this country is guaranteed unless you have a contract (and it better be in writing whether it’s for longer than a year or not.) Even with a contract, we all have the choice to exercise our freewill and break our legal agreements if we are willing to face the consequences (e.g. legal liability).

Scrap everything I just said if you think unethical just means “rude,” i.e. somebody will look down at the ground and feel sad for 2 minutes. Unfortunately, the world faces larger problems.

User avatar
vamedic03
Posts: 1579
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:50 am

Re: Urgent: Decide my summer internship please!

Postby vamedic03 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:50 pm

aPosseAdEsse wrote:I save ethical considerations for issues relating to life and death, pain and suffering, poverty and illness, war etc. Invading countries under false pretenses is unethical. Torturing animals is unethical. Making above median income and not donating a cent of it is unethical. Abusing one's spouse is unethical.

If for example one honestly believe that Legal Aid Society will be in a terrible position after a 1L student changes his or her mind about working there for 2 months, e.g. it will have to settle for some completely incompetent 1L that will end up causing harm in fact to a pro bono client in desperate need of legal services, than yes, I agree, accepting and turning down is unethical.

But do you know what is more likely in that situation? This non-profit will turn to one of literally 50+other ambitious and bright 1L students who would love the job and will do plenty well enough in its capacity. No one will be harmed, and in fact that other 1L student will be thrilled he landed the jig.

And this outcome-measuring perspective is all in addition to the fact that America proudly embraces employment-at-will. I worry many law students and aspiring law students on this board have never had a job before. Even if you haven’t, don’t you watch the news? No job in this country is guaranteed unless you have a contract (and it better be in writing whether it’s for longer than a year or not.) Even with a contract, we all have the choice to exercise our freewill and break our legal agreements if we are willing to face the consequences (e.g. legal liability).

Scrap everything I just said if you think unethical just means “rude,” i.e. somebody will look down at the ground and feel sad for 2 minutes. Unfortunately, the world faces larger problems.



Look, it's unethical to accept a position with the intention to reneg on that acceptance. The Legal Aid group has taken its time and effort to select OP. They are willing to expend their time and energy over the summer to provide OP with a good legal experience.

More so, your hypothetical is wrong. It's quite likely that after someone accepts their offer from Legal Aid, the Legal Aid then tells the other applicants the position is no longer available. If two weeks pass and that person renegs their acceptance, then the Legal Aid will probably have to go back and conduct another round of recruiting. This costs them time and money.

Maybe some people on here aren't worried about making ethical decisions. That's fine. But, realize that certain behavior crosses the line.

FWIW aPosseAdEsse - I have >6 years of work experience. I understand what the 'real' world is like. But, I also understand the basic concept of ethics. And, I certainly would hope that you would recognize the existence of legal and business ethics.

User avatar
YourCaptain
Posts: 719
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:26 pm

Re: Urgent: Decide my summer internship please!

Postby YourCaptain » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:20 pm

aPosseAdEsse wrote:~~~~ Making above median income and not donating a cent of it is unethical. ~~~~~


I read this and then immediately ceased reading.

User avatar
Borhas
Posts: 4856
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: Urgent: Decide my summer internship please!

Postby Borhas » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:20 pm

aPosseAdEsse wrote:I save ethical considerations for issues relating to life and death, pain and suffering, poverty and illness, war etc. I

stopped reading after this

aPosseAdEsse
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:19 am

Re: Urgent: Decide my summer internship please!

Postby aPosseAdEsse » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:29 am

I realize that there's a concept called "business ethics." However, I disagree with where and when it’s important to stop and consider what one's doing to consult ethics.

For example. "Business ethics" is a serious and relevant issue when one personally designs and bundles mortgage backed securities that he or she knows are ultra-risky and doomed to fail (in fact, he's literally BETTING on it) and then sells those bundles to pension fund managers while smiling and gloating about the AAA rating! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/1 ... 41950.html THAT is when someone needs stop and say to himself "Oh, this is very wrong. I shouldn't do this."

Look, maybe I'm a cynic. I'm obviously feeling very passionate about this and rubbing some of you the wrong way. (And I’m sorry OP if I'm de-railing your thread.) Suffice it to say, I agree that accepting a job offer and later turning it down for a better offer is rude. Perhaps rudeness even falls into the outer skirts of the realm of ethics. I just think that the world is tough, and competitive, and I try to save my concerns regarding "ethics" for issues that deserve more serious ethical attention.

P.S. donating money is an ethical matter. --LinkRemoved-- If you don't buy into that, that's just fine. But please understand that you'll be hard pressed to find even one ethicist who would agree that it is perfectly moral to NOT donate even just a little bit, whether it's $5 to your church, or $10k to Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

User avatar
YourCaptain
Posts: 719
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:26 pm

Re: Urgent: Decide my summer internship please!

Postby YourCaptain » Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:40 am

aPosseAdEsse wrote:P.S. donating money is an ethical matter. --LinkRemoved-- If you don't buy into that, that's just fine. But please understand that you'll be hard pressed to find even one ethicist who would agree that it is perfectly moral to NOT donate even just a little bit, whether it's $5 to your church, or $10k to Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.


I stopped listening to 'ethicists' when Randy Cohen stated that it was ethical to steal someone's umbrella because someone stole theirs.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.