MidLaw questions

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ns0291
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MidLaw questions

Postby ns0291 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:51 pm

Everyone keeps talking about BigLaw and the harsh reality is most of us either won't make it or won't make partner at BigLaw.

That leads me to wonder about opportunities offered by MidLaw and how competitive is it to secure employment in a decent MidLaw firm?
Also, how are employment prospects/options for people coming out of MidLaw?

Anyone Who can shed light on this topic

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dood
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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby dood » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:05 am

equally as hard as big law

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Rock Chalk
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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby Rock Chalk » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:10 am

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Last edited by Rock Chalk on Thu May 24, 2012 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:14 pm

I wasn't only one in my MidLaw/regional BigLaw SA class to turn down V5-level offers to be here. Take from that what you will.

Also, the guy above has TCR. The top MidLaw or regional BigLaw firms in a given region will give the best exit options in that region.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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patrickd139
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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby patrickd139 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:16 pm

dood wrote:equally as hard as big law

This. Smaller associate classes, usually more market-centric and almost the same amount of money. Plus, the hours tend to be on par with their better-paid counterparts.

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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:18 pm

Unlike when you get shown the door at Biglaw, you might actually a practical skill or two after your 4 years in MidLaw (though clearly less money). You may also still have a soul, have actually met a client (gasp), and at least have met other practicing attorneys who might be willing to help you out.

(anon b/c of work this summer).

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Rock Chalk
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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby Rock Chalk » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:16 am

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Last edited by Rock Chalk on Thu May 24, 2012 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

whymeohgodno
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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby whymeohgodno » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:17 am

dood wrote:equally as hard as big law


+1

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powerlawyer06
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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby powerlawyer06 » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:21 am

I think you have to define Mid-Law to have a intelligent answer to your question.

In my hometown(city with 2 million plus) the top starting pay is 120k. There are no firms with over 100 associates (I have looked). But cost of living is dirt cheap.

Do you consider a 120k job in my hometown a midlaw job?

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Rock Chalk
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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby Rock Chalk » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:24 am

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Last edited by Rock Chalk on Thu May 24, 2012 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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powerlawyer06
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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby powerlawyer06 » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:17 am

Rock Chalk wrote:
powerlawyer06 wrote:Do you consider a 120k job in my hometown a midlaw job?

Assuming these aren't satellite branches of larger firms, yes.


Okay then I can say with some authority that midlaw is dominated by the regional schools in my hometown. However, since T14 grads are a rarity there, T14 candidates do have a leg up on the competition for hiring purposes (or at least that is the rumor). If you have ties and contacts in the market then it wouldn't be hard to get a job.

But that is just one market. Other midlaw jobs may be harder to get in other markets.

Edit: As I am writing this, my GF (who is a lawyer in that market) is telling me that T14 candidates only have a leg up over students from the regional schools that are not in the top 10% and have no major contacts at local firms.

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BrianGriffintheDog
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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby BrianGriffintheDog » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:57 am

I have a feeling that midlaw is exactly the same as biglaw in terms of their workload but a bit less $$$

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Rock Chalk
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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby Rock Chalk » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:45 pm

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Last edited by Rock Chalk on Thu May 24, 2012 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Renzo
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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby Renzo » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:49 pm

Rock Chalk wrote:
BrianGriffintheDog wrote:I have a feeling that midlaw is exactly the same as biglaw in terms of their workload but a bit less $$$

Lots of midlaw firms pay market.

This is only true if you have a very generous definition of "market"

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Rock Chalk
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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby Rock Chalk » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:35 pm

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lawboy81
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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby lawboy81 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:29 pm

I think in a lot of places, "midlaw" is the local equivalent of "biglaw." In Albuquerue, New Mexico, Wichita, Kansas, or Jackson, Mississippi, the largest law firms are all under 150 people or so and therefore not technically "biglaw." They're dominated by UNM, UK, and Ole Miss grads who were in the top 25% of the class and a sprinkling of kids from national schools who have local ties). This is why going local is usually a good idea (and why people who claim T14 or bust are somewhat wrong. Maybe it would be better to say T14 or local state school in an area witout much competition if you're confident you'll do well there).

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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:45 pm

lawboy81 wrote:I think in a lot of places, "midlaw" is the local equivalent of "biglaw." In Albuquerue, New Mexico, Wichita, Kansas, or Jackson, Mississippi, the largest law firms are all under 150 people or so and therefore not technically "biglaw." They're dominated by UNM, UK, and Ole Miss grads who were in the top 25% of the class and a sprinkling of kids from national schools who have local ties). This is why going local is usually a good idea (and why people who claim T14 or bust are somewhat wrong. Maybe it would be better to say T14 or local state school in an area witout much competition if you're confident you'll do well there).


Total bullshit. My summer classes at both the mid-law firms this summer are half T14/Vandy kids and half "local" kids. You need ties from a T14, but if you've got ties and decent enough grades, they trip over themselves to hire you.

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powerlawyer06
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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby powerlawyer06 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
lawboy81 wrote:I think in a lot of places, "midlaw" is the local equivalent of "biglaw." In Albuquerue, New Mexico, Wichita, Kansas, or Jackson, Mississippi, the largest law firms are all under 150 people or so and therefore not technically "biglaw." They're dominated by UNM, UK, and Ole Miss grads who were in the top 25% of the class and a sprinkling of kids from national schools who have local ties). This is why going local is usually a good idea (and why people who claim T14 or bust are somewhat wrong. Maybe it would be better to say T14 or local state school in an area witout much competition if you're confident you'll do well there).


Total bullshit. My summer classes at both the mid-law firms this summer are half T14/Vandy kids and half "local" kids. You need ties from a T14, but if you've got ties and decent enough grades, they trip over themselves to hire you.


I think you both may be right depending on the market. I have honestly heard of both cases. As I mentioned before, my GF does not seem to think it helps to be from a T14 in her secondary market. But that could just be at her firm or her bias(she went to a local T50). Does anyone else have any empirical or even anecdotal evidence of whether firms in secondary markets favor T14 over their local schools? Specific information regarding class rank at the t14 or regional school would also be helpful.

lawboy81
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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby lawboy81 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:51 pm

I'm sure it depends on the market. I'm not talking about "major" secondary markets like Atlanta, Tampa, Boston, or even places like Charlotte, Indianappolis, Portland... Markets in the deep south, great plains states, and rocky mountain west are much more about local ties than about T14. I'm sure you can get jobs in these places if you're T14 and have local ties, but I don't know that fims are "tripping over themselves" to hire Cornell or Northwestern grads at medium or below over people with good grades from State U.

I have no particular evidence but just look through attorney profiles of the larger firms in these kinds o cities -- they're almost all locals.

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stratocophic
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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby stratocophic » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:03 pm

powerlawyer06 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
lawboy81 wrote:I think in a lot of places, "midlaw" is the local equivalent of "biglaw." In Albuquerue, New Mexico, Wichita, Kansas, or Jackson, Mississippi, the largest law firms are all under 150 people or so and therefore not technically "biglaw." They're dominated by UNM, UK, and Ole Miss grads who were in the top 25% of the class and a sprinkling of kids from national schools who have local ties). This is why going local is usually a good idea (and why people who claim T14 or bust are somewhat wrong. Maybe it would be better to say T14 or local state school in an area witout much competition if you're confident you'll do well there).


Total bullshit. My summer classes at both the mid-law firms this summer are half T14/Vandy kids and half "local" kids. You need ties from a T14, but if you've got ties and decent enough grades, they trip over themselves to hire you.


I think you both may be right depending on the market. I have honestly heard of both cases. As I mentioned before, my GF does not seem to think it helps to be from a T14 in her secondary market. But that could just be at her firm or her bias(she went to a local T50). Does anyone else have any empirical or even anecdotal evidence of whether firms in secondary markets favor T14 over their local schools? Specific information regarding class rank at the t14 or regional school would also be helpful.
Yeah, plus some places don't really have local schools. Nashville's only law school is Vandy. The only other nearby school (UTK) allegedly doesn't have a grip on the city like other regional schools with secondary/tertiary markets (e.g. SLU for St. Louis).

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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:31 am

lawboy81 wrote:I'm sure it depends on the market. I'm not talking about "major" secondary markets like Atlanta, Tampa, Boston, or even places like Charlotte, Indianappolis, Portland... Markets in the deep south, great plains states, and rocky mountain west are much more about local ties than about T14. I'm sure you can get jobs in these places if you're T14 and have local ties, but I don't know that fims are "tripping over themselves" to hire Cornell or Northwestern grads at medium or below over people with good grades from State U.

I have no particular evidence but just look through attorney profiles of the larger firms in these kinds o cities -- they're almost all locals.


Same replier as above.

My market is in the south, and if you're T14 with ties you're golden. I don't know how far down the grade curve they go, but I'd imagine its farther for T14 than the local T50. I'm around top 10% or so at my T14, but I know you need to be in the top 10 or 15% to have a shot at these places if you're at the best school in the state. I will say that in my experience the Mid Law shops are very focused on fit with firm culture. You've got to have the grades, but if you don't click really well with people during your interviews they won't bring you in. These places have 8 to 10 people in their summer class and they only have to take their top choices.

lawboy81
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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby lawboy81 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:
lawboy81 wrote:I'm sure it depends on the market. I'm not talking about "major" secondary markets like Atlanta, Tampa, Boston, or even places like Charlotte, Indianappolis, Portland... Markets in the deep south, great plains states, and rocky mountain west are much more about local ties than about T14. I'm sure you can get jobs in these places if you're T14 and have local ties, but I don't know that fims are "tripping over themselves" to hire Cornell or Northwestern grads at medium or below over people with good grades from State U.

I have no particular evidence but just look through attorney profiles of the larger firms in these kinds o cities -- they're almost all locals.


Same replier as above.

My market is in the south, and if you're T14 with ties you're golden. I don't know how far down the grade curve they go, but I'd imagine its farther for T14 than the local T50. I'm around top 10% or so at my T14, but I know you need to be in the top 10 or 15% to have a shot at these places if you're at the best school in the state. I will say that in my experience the Mid Law shops are very focused on fit with firm culture. You've got to have the grades, but if you don't click really well with people during your interviews they won't bring you in. These places have 8 to 10 people in their summer class and they only have to take their top choices.


My market is also South -- deep South. I fairly extensively researched all the larger firms in cities like Baton Rouge, Shreveport, Jackson, Biloxi, Mobile, and Birmingham. Just scrolling thrugh attorney pofiles it's quit rare to come across attorney's from out-of-state. When you do it' probbly a private Souther T50 like Vandy, Emory, W & L, or Tulane. There' also the occassional Duke, UVA, and Harvard and Yale (possibly the only truly national schools). I don't think schools like Northestern, Cornell, and Univrsity of Michigan are very well known, even to partners, just b/c they're in something called the T14. And they certainly aren't going to give an edge to people who went to t25 schools in far away places over the local kids, ties or no.

concurrent fork
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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby concurrent fork » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:04 am

powerlawyer06 wrote:I think you have to define Mid-Law to have a intelligent answer to your question.

+1
A lot of what people are referring to in this thread I would call biglaw.

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Rock Chalk
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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby Rock Chalk » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:46 am

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drylo
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Re: MidLaw questions

Postby drylo » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:51 pm

Rock Chalk wrote:
lawboy81 wrote:There' also the occassional Duke, UVA, and Harvard and Yale (possibly the only truly national schools). I don't think schools like Northestern, Cornell, and Univrsity of Michigan are very well known, even to partners, just b/c they're in something called the T14.

Duke is truly national and Michigan is not because partners in the deep south know Duke better than Michigan. Got it. Also, you didn't mention Stanford in your list so I'm assuming they're not familiar with it and it's not truly national either.


I understand that his post was sort of ambiguously worded, but lawboy was pretty clearly saying that Harvard and Yale were possibly the only truly national schools. You can debate the accuracy of that if you wish, but try to understand the post before picking a fight.




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